Seaver

Cynthetiq, if you look closely at that picture that was rigged to look that way, completely different crash tests/speeds or else the people who did the test were neglegent.

They had the barrier set dead center for the mini, perfect for the absorbtion on what it was based on. They did not adjust for the truck, which was well below where it was designed to absorb the impact. This is VERY evident because of the forced projection at a 45 degree angle upwards, this is the most perfect placement on a frontal strike for this truck for maximum damage. Instead of hitting the frame of the truck, or even the crumple zone which is what absorbs almost all of the energy, the protrusion struck the axle which is clear in the picture. The axle isnt designed for absorbtion and it's THIS that caused the interior damage. The reason I suspect this was the intended occurance is the object is not flat, but a protrusion. Where will you ever see an occurance like this while driving? Point two on this: The reason I think it's completely different tests is the protruding object in picture 2 does not match with the damage done to the mini. There is no puncture like crumple (it's flat, not a > shape), this simply does not match with the object shown in picture two.

Now you may say things like this happen, but if you look at the height not very likely. They design the highway barriers to be high enough for semi's, so I promise you they'd be higher than 2.5 feet.

Now if you try to argue off of that picture that the mini is safer let's look at a head-on collision. The truck would use that thing as a ramp, the people in the mini would be killed instantly. How is that safer?

Now I agree that there are a lot of shitty SUV drivers, but from personal experience there's a lot worse car drivers than SUV/trucks. Besides, I tend not to trust anything the NY Times says anymore, we all know how trustworthy their reports have been in the past couple years...

irseg

It's the same test, it's just that he happened to pick one of the best-performing small cars versus the worst-performing pickup truck.

The photos I posted are also of that same test, just an unsafe small car versus a very safe truck--an newer version of the same one Cynthetiq posted (Ford F-150), as a matter of fact.

Cynthetiq

actually as MINI enthusiast (an still non owner) it was a NHSTA website coverage that I picked it up from that was written up and posted several months back.

}{ELL/\/()

damn you suv owners are getting really defensive

sixate

For starters, when vehicles collide SUV's/trucks are higher in the air. Which means the bottom of the bumper will ride up onto a car in a head on collision which puts all the energy of the crash onto the car, most likely killing the front passenger/passengers, and that's a fact. So these fucking head on collisions into a wall with an SUV/truck mean absolutely nothing. Well, unless you hit a brick wall or another SUV..... BTW, most accidents aren't head on collisions.

And this death per 100,000 vehicles is a joke also. Because 100,000 SUV's are carrying waaaay more passengers than 100,00 cars, and that's another fact. So lets tally up the amount of passengers in the vehicles first.

The only thing that would worry me about driving an SUV would be rolling it. My girlfriend was borrowing someone's 02 Blazer last week, was clipped from behind while turning, and the Blazer flipped a few times. But because she was wearing her seatbelt, as she always does and I almost never do, she walked away with some cuts and bruises on her left arm because when the vehicle flipped on the driver side her arm was against the window, the glass shattered, which lodged 8 pieces of glass in her arm, then skid across the pavement for a few seconds until the vehicle flipped once more. She was lucky, the Blazer was totaled, and she walked away. I'm sure that more people would survive roll over accidents if they were wearing their seat belts, but that's a personal choice we all make, and I'll never tell anyone to wear one because I don't do it myself.

And I'll tell you one thing. If you had to be in a head on collision, and the two vehicles were a Mini and a full size pick up truck. Only a moron would take the Mini. A big ass truck will total a Mini. The truck outweighs and out powers the Mini which puts almost all of the energy of the two vehicles into the Mini. Just think. When they collide which vehicle is barely gonna move and which will go flying back 15 feet. I doubt I need to answer this. The vehicle that gets thrown back is absorbing nearly all of the energy from the crash. A truck would nearly run that little fucking car over, and I don't need to see pics from a stupid crash test in a controlled environment. Newsflash!!!!! Accidents don't happen in controlled environments people!!

Just so you know, I'm not an SUV owner. I own a Civic, and I'll bet my ass that an SUV/truck would absolutely kill me in a head on collision.

Boo

Tell me how safe a car over a SUV when you hit a moose. That is a reality here.

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Cynthetiq

SAAB happens to have the highest safety record for hitting Moose for some reason...

basmoq

I'm soo with you Cedar, I love my little saturn, but I've been in an accident with an SUV and he completely crushed my hood without even touching the bumper or headlights (wish I had taken pics)

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roboshark

I thought wearing a seat belt is mandatory. Not a question of personal choice.

And while we're on seat belts: what's the deal with not wearing a seat belt?

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Seaver

I dont drive an SUV, in fact I hate 90% of those who drive them. I just dont like statistics that dont hold up to scrutiny. Sixate stated most of what I was going to about SUV/Truck survivability being easily under emphisized in statistics and tests.

sixate

Sure, there is a law in Ohio to make it mandatory to wear one, but it's not like your car won't start if your seat belt isn't on. I choose not to wear it, that's my choice and the risk I take. I understand the consequences of my actions. If I get pulled over and get a ticket for not wearing one, which has happened twice, I won't bitch. I'll pay the fucking $50 fine, and continue to not wear it.

Boo

Snip
Really now.. that my friend is alot of people to hate. What about them do you hate?

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roboshark

Yeah, true. Actually, I'm waiting for Volvo to start making cars that refuse to run if the occupants aren't all wearing.

What I don't understand is: what is the big deal with not wearing your seat belt? It doesn't restrict your movements. It keeps you from breaking your teeth in the steering wheel if you rear-end someone. In a fast corner, it keeps you from sliding out of your seat.

Unless you do it in protest of a regulation you find unnecessary? But there's so many regulations that I find unnecessary. Can't possibly break all of 'em...

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Cynthetiq

We had a 1976 Ford Granada had that "feature" sensors in the seats determined if driver and passenger were seated and belted as appropriate. Since it was a pain and not a law at the time, the parents figured out that if you lifted your butt when starting it would start. thus defeating the start/seat belt feature.

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sixate

See, here's what it comes down to. It's my car, and I'm not doing anything inside of it that's harming anyone else. Me not wearing a seatbelt hurts nobody, and it's never hurt me either. It's a risk I take, and I'll continue to take that risk. And I'll tell you why. Here in Ohio it is legal to ride a motorcycle without, and I repeat, without a helmet. You can't possibly tell me it's more dangerous for me to drive my car without a seatbelt than what it is to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, can you?

roboshark

As far as I can tell, driving without a seatbelt is even safer than riding a motorcycle with a helmet, let alone without one. Can't see how much that helmet's gonna help in a highway pile up or a high speed wipe out. Maybe a lot of bikers will agree. I see people on motorcycles wearing a t-shirt, shorts and sandals, and a helmet. How insane is that? Lose the helmet!

You're talking about "taking a risk" when choosing not to wear the belt. If I assume you're referring to the risk of injuries, then you acknowledge the usefulness of seatbelts, yet refuse to wear one. Sounds like a protest to me. No big deal: I agree with you. It's nobody's business whether I wear a seatbelt or not. (Well, maybe my girlfriend will like me more without all of my teeth smashed into the back of my throat.)

Me, I'd have belts fitted to the car if they weren't mandatory and the car came without 'em. In a crash, I'd rather not have the steering wheel crack open my chest, or bust through the windshield with my forehead.

But that's me and I'm a pussy. :-) That and the fact that when I was 6 I "borrowed" dad's car keys and while playing with the ignition, managed to start his car and even pull away, hitting another parked vehicle at what must have been 10 miles an hour. I busted 2 front teeth on the steering wheel and had a welt as big a as pear on my forehead for a week. My cousin was in the back seat, and she managed to break a couple of teeth as she smacked the back of my seat! How much more fun can you have as a kid! Luckily, those were milk teeth. And yes, it was a stick shift.

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bob

actually they are for cars, but trucks aren't regulated because at the time of the laws, no one drove a truck unless they NEEDED a truck.

This is why lowering/raising your vehicle is illegal in many places.

thethingfish

There is an addition safety issue hardly ever mentioned, that is the number of accidents which occur during left turns at larger intersections due to the inability to see beyond some monster SUV or truck headed the opposite direction and also turning left. This problem existed before the SUV boom, vans and commercial trucks presented the same problem but their numbers were so few there impact on driving safety was minimal. Here where I live better than 50% of those vehicles in the turn lane are pickups and SUVs, and left turn related accident increasing.

Eric640

Now WTF is the difference between an SUV and a minivan.

I'll tell you what the difference is. The DRIVER... and the passengers. If you're a 40yr old mother with a backseat full of kids you are going to drive differently than the average person driving an F-150 or an SUV.

I know I drive a lot differently when theres someone riding with me, even if it's a friend or whatever. I don't like to make other people nervous. If I ever have kids I am sure I would be that much more cautios when I drive them somewhere.

The vehicles have a different purpose and attract different drivers. I have seen SUV drivers do absolutley idiotic things, just because they "could". Things like drive over grass and curbs just to avoid a red light. Back in highschool my friend used to drive his SUV on a huge pile of woodchips behind the school. Now come on, where is the intelligence in that.

Big cars make people do stupid things.

Eric640

I hear people complain about this a lot. Now for the record I drive an Escort and I drive it down to my school about 20mi on the freeway everyday. I see a lot of big cars and semis and the like and I've never had a REAL issue.

If I'm behind them then I can follow them safely. If I'm in an adjacent turn lane I don't have to look at the other traffic, just look at the stoplight and wait for my arrow (and if its a double left turn lane there WILL be an arrow of course, it would be much too dangerous without).

If theres an SUV on my left and hes turning left and im next to him turning right, sure I cant actually SEE the road to my left... but if he's pulling out to make a left turn then logically it must be safe for me to make a right turn at the same time correct?

I am only 18 but hey, I've had my liscence since I was about 16 and a half and I've never had an accident, so all I can say is my methods work for me. Test them at your own risk.


Frankly, I'd rather drive a small car with small blindspots (my car has practically none) and be lower to the ground, than drive a big ass SUV with 3 or 4 blind spots and be above most other traffic.