I can't take it anymore!!!!! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

SaltPork · 07-29-2004, 07:17 PM

Why do we never hear anything about John Kerry's first wife?? Did she die? Did John Kerry eat her corpse? What gives? I haven't been able to find out much info about her, just about the "Queen of Condiments".

Does anybody know what happened to his first wife? Is she dead or are they divorced? His daughters never even mention the mother...it's just unnatural.

maleficent · 07-29-2004, 07:21 PM

Kerry's first wife

John Kerry's Newt Gingrich Problem?
Carl Limbacher
NewsMax.com
May 12, 2003

After Newt Gingrich hit the national spotlight in 1994 by becoming the first Republican speaker of the House in 40 years, he was skewered by reports that he had served his first wife divorce papers as she lay in a hospital bed battling cancer.
But the press has been far kinder to Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry, who, according to published accounts going back more than a decade, began extricating himself from his first marriage to Philadelphia heiress Julia Thorne at the same time she was battling a case of depression so debilitating that it drove her to the brink of suicide.

In an attempt to explain why he decided not to let his wife's precarious mental state derail his 1982 bid to become Michael Dukakis' lieutenant governor, Kerry told the New Yorker magazine last December, "When I get focused and set out to do something, I'm pretty good at staying focused."

"You don't want to let yourself down, you know what I'm saying?" added the ambitious Democrat without a hint of irony.

Thorne, whose family is reportedly worth $300 million, married Kerry in 1970. According the New Yorker's Joe Klein, the couple's friends said Julia was not a typical political wife.

"There were times at dinner parties when John would be very pompous, unable to control his impulse to make a speech," one acquaintance told the writer. "It was all slightly laughable, and Julia was one of those who laughed. She'd say things like, 'What the f--k did you just say?'" Kerry's career focus was so intense that Thorne apparently felt she was an impediment to her husband's ambitions. In her 1994 book about that period in her life, titled "You Are Not Alone," she wrote:

"I could no longer pretend I was of use to my husband or my children. ... I knew that, once I was gone, my family and friends would be relieved of the burden of my incompetency."

By Thorne's own account, she began to contemplate suicide a full two years before Kerry ratcheted up his 1982 campaign. Reviewing her book shortly after it was published, the Boston Globe reported: "One night in 1980, Julia Thorne put her children to bed and then sat on the edge of her own bed to contemplate suicide. She was exhausted - overwhelmed by despair, self-loathing and pain. She wanted to lie down. Curl up. Sleep forever." The Kerrys were separated in 1982 but didn't divorce until 1988.

Press summaries of the New Yorker report focused on other details of Kerry's life story, such as his Vietnam heroism. Most omitted any mention of Kerry's first wife altogether, a fact that likely pleased the Massachusetts Democrat. "Kerry is understandably loath to talk about the details of the marriage," noted Klein.

In response to the New Yorker report, Sen. Kerry wrote what was described as "an anguished letter" of protest to the magazine. Thorne's two daughters by Kerry also registered their displeasure. Their mother, who has since conquered her depression and is happily remarried and living in Montana, told the Globe, "I support John's [presidential] candidacy, and I believe in John's candidacy. I think he is an immensely talented statesman, and I am 100 percent behind him."

But previous reports indicate that Thorne had problems with Kerry even after they split 21 years ago.

During the period the Kerrys were separated, for instance, the senator apparently felt little constrained by his marital vows. Gossip columns at the time linked him to Morgan Fairchild, Cornelia Guest and even President Reagan's liberal daughter, Patti Davis. An upcoming Boston Globe expose will reportedly feature details of the Massachusetts Democrat's 1980s affair with a 25-year-old British reporter.

According to a previous account offered by the paper, the fact that Kerry was still technically married till 1988 "reportedly came as a surprise to some of his frequent companions."

Just weeks before his May 26, 1995, remarriage to Ketchup heiress Theresa Heinz, Thorne took Kerry to court in a bid for an increase in child support payments, arguing that "his income was up substantially," according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

Both Kerry and Thorne denied that the lawsuit had anything to do with Heinz or her fortune.

But friction arose again two years later when Kerry, a Catholic, applied to the Washington, D.C., archdiocese to have his marriage to Thorne annulled, even though the couple had two grown daughters.

Thorne "has written a letter of opposition to the archdiocese because she feels the process demeans their relationship and their children," reported the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1997.

The paper blamed Kerry's new wife on the annulment bid. His office issued a terse statement: "Sen. Kerry very much understands Julia's feelings and appreciates her support. Sen. Kerry believes that this is a private family matter."

The Washington Times noted in a Kerry profile several years ago that his critics consider him "a ruthless political opportunist." Given some of the more obscure details of Kerry's first marriage, that assessment may not be too far off the mark.

<hr>
He does like his wimmin rich doesn't he?

Halx · 07-29-2004, 07:29 PM

Oh how I long for such power.

SaltPork · 07-29-2004, 07:32 PM

Daaaaaaamn!! Thanks for dredging that up, Maleficent. So, he made her crazy and then got divorced...hmm. Glad she pulled through. I am a bit surprised that the Republicans haven't mentioned this yet, though that would be pretty low and I'm sure 'ol Georgie-boy has some stuff he doesn't want stirred up either.

Thanks again, Maleficent.

maleficent · 07-29-2004, 07:35 PM

Julia Thorne -- From Newsweek
She was John Kerry's first love, but politics did not agree with her. So she fled the limelight. It's catching up to herBy Susannah Meadows
NewsweekMay 3, 2004 issue - Julia Thorne has been trying to escape politics ever since rocks crashed through her window, barely missing her baby's crib, after her husband John Kerry ran for Congress in 1972. They'd met years before, while Kerry was still at Yale, after he'd already heard all about her from his buddy David Thorne, Julia's twin. She was wearing a bikini, riding around on the back of a car, when John Kerry saw the dashing 19-year-old for the first time, according to historian Doug Brinkley. They'd been married a few years when Kerry ran for office, and Thorne threw herself into getting him elected. "She was a real live wire, a very funny person, outrageous sometimes. She was a very positive force in the campaign," says Dan Payne, a former Kerry aide. But Kerry took a lot of heat for being antiwar, and lost. The nastiness of the race soured Thorne. As she would write in "A Change of Heart," her 1996 book about divorce, politics robbed her of the right to privacy and an autonomous life. "I was alone and overwhelmed, abandoned with a new baby in a town that held political disdain for us."

When Thorne finally separated from Kerry in 1982, she was determined to find the privacy she'd craved for 12 years as a political wife, asking friends never to talk to the press about her. Thorne, who'd suffered from depression, worked through it and eventually fled Boston for Wyoming and then Montana, remarried and kept her past with the senator from Massachusetts to herself. "She kept saying, 'Don't tell them what town I live in. Just say Montana or in the West'," says Brinkley.

But it hasn't been easy closing the door. An article in The New Yorker in 2002 portrayed her as being too depressed to take care of her own children. (The magazine subsequently published a letter from Kerry stating that Thorne was a wonderful mother.) Enraged by what she'd read, Thorne agreed to talk to Brinkley for his biography of Kerry, "Tour of Duty." "Her view was, 'I'm not going to be whitewashed out of history'," says Brinkley. So Thorne hauled out her old cardboard boxes and shared photos of the young couple posing in front of the big neon signs of old '60s California motels, and love letters from Kerry calling her "Darling" and "Bambi" and telling her she was all that mattered. (Kerry told Brinkley that a big reason he'd volunteered for Swift Boat duty in Vietnam—which is often cited as an example of his heroism—was so he could spend the summer with Thorne before training started. When asked if she'd ever heard that story before, their daughter Vanessa Kerry grew quiet and said, "No, but it wouldn't surprise me.")

Now that the first love of Thorne's life is the presumptive Democratic nominee, her dreams of escaping politics may be dashed for good. Her daughters, with whom she speaks every few days, call her from the campaign trail. Thorne laughs at their stories from the road, and she has told friends that she's proud her daughters are campaigning for their father. But Vanessa says her mother's reaction has been more mixed. "The risk of us becoming more public is concerning for her. It's been a funny balancing act, trying to not make [her] an enigma but also to let her have her own life."

Thorne remains a Kerry supporter, and sometimes called him after primary wins with her congratulations. Today she and her current husband, an architect, are active in local environmental issues and arts education, and she's working on a memoir about growing up in Italy. The local paper has discovered her, and slowly, townsfolk are waking up to the fact that they have the former wife of a presidential candidate in their midst. She's told friends that she's hopeful that Kerry will win. Just leave her out of it.

© 2004 Newsweek

maleficent · 07-29-2004, 07:41 PM

It's none of anyone's business, but since it derailed Jack Ryan in Illinois, Kerry is running for the highest office in the land, wouldn't it be interesting to see those divorce papers... (especially since he asked for an anullment a few years later)

Ok, so they're not real.. but....
Kerry/Thorne Divorce Papers

lurkette · 07-30-2004, 05:46 AM

Nooooooo......

I thought making the divorce papers public was a disgrace with Jack Ryan and I think it would be a disgrace now. This is people's personal, private stuff. I don't think it has any bearing on their leadership, and it ought to stay where it belongs: in private. The stuff with Kerry and his first wife was 20 years ago, and she "remains a Kerry supporter." Was he an asshole to divorce her in the middle of a depressive episode? Probably, but who knows - could have been the best damn thing he could have done for her! The anullment is more problematic, but news flash: POLITICIANS ARE SELF INTERESTED SONS OF BITCHES for the most part.

And don't get me started about Jack Ryan...that whole thing pisses me off to no end. I'm so sick of people being held up to some spurious puritan standard. The only problem there was that his wife had an issue with his sexual tastes, and it should be between them, not them and the whole fucking public.

/fume

Cycler · 08-01-2004, 06:11 PM

Doesn't matter. Business is business. Been through a divorce myself and your personal life is your own.

redrum · 08-01-2004, 06:56 PM

When you want to be president there is no such thing as a personal life.

Carno · 08-01-2004, 07:10 PM

Why the hell would you care about anything having to do with a dirty politician?

Trisk · 08-01-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carn
Why the hell would you care about anything having to do with a dirty politician?

....Are you joking? Dirty politician?
I'm just going to ignore that and remind you that this "dirty politician" happens to be running for president. That's why people should care about anything having to do with him. Being informed is always good when decided the fate of your country for the next 4-8 years

maleficent · 08-02-2004, 06:01 AM

I'm am terrified of getting drawn into this type of debate again. However...

I frankly don't care why he divorced the first Mrs Kerry, none of my business, that's between him and her (my original comment was purely tongue in cheek, because googling for the information about her, people are clamoring for that info) However, the annulment bugs the stuffing out of me and it speaks volumes of his character. And... well... Character matters.

Cycler · 08-02-2004, 06:59 PM

When it comes down to matters of marriage, divorce, and job sometimes you have to separate them. Regardless of how your personal life is going you must still be able to do your job. It seems as if Kerry was still able to perform his duties even though his personal life was in the toliet. Been there done that. Not saying he did the best thing by his marriage but he was still able to perform his job at the time.

Carno · 08-02-2004, 08:37 PM

EDITTED: this isn't Tilted Politics, and I don't really care all that much..

I do stand by my comment that all politicians are dirty scumbags, however.

Carno · 08-02-2004, 08:45 PM

EDITTED

unoaman · 08-03-2004, 10:49 AM

I'm in no way here to argue, or debate any material presented in this thread. I have my own thoughts, and will keep them to myself for a change.
I am here to comment on annulment. Perhaps others participating in this thread are Catholic, and more informed than myself, if that is the case I would invite them to speak up.

Even after a legal marriage, according to the Catholic Church, the marriage must be declared valid by the church. Even after a legal divorce, the same applies. An annulment is merely a decleration by the Church that the marriage wasn't valid in the first place. It doesn't have anything to do with love, or intent, or even the having of children, it's just saying that in the eyes of the Church, the marriage was not valid. Doesn't mean you were living in sin, doesn't mean the children are bastards...really affects nothing but ones standing in the Roman Catholic Church.

A number of years after our divorce, my former wife asked for an annulment, even though we had children, and I had remarried. I granted her request (very hard to get one without former spouses cooperation), because she wanted to marry a very good man, and they both wanted it to be a Catholic wedding...something she could not have done as things stood at the time. The point being that regardless of anything else he might, or might not have done, the annulment should have no bearing on considering him for office.

07-29-2004, 07:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	I can't take it anymore!!!!! Why do we never hear anything about John Kerry's first wife?? Did she die? Did John Kerry eat her corpse? What gives? I haven't been able to find out much info about her, just about the "Queen of Condiments". Does anybody know what happened to his first wife? Is she dead or are they divorced? His daughters never even mention the mother...it's just unnatural. __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.

07-29-2004, 07:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Kerry's first wife John Kerry's Newt Gingrich Problem? Carl Limbacher NewsMax.com May 12, 2003 After Newt Gingrich hit the national spotlight in 1994 by becoming the first Republican speaker of the House in 40 years, he was skewered by reports that he had served his first wife divorce papers as she lay in a hospital bed battling cancer. But the press has been far kinder to Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry, who, according to published accounts going back more than a decade, began extricating himself from his first marriage to Philadelphia heiress Julia Thorne at the same time she was battling a case of depression so debilitating that it drove her to the brink of suicide. In an attempt to explain why he decided not to let his wife's precarious mental state derail his 1982 bid to become Michael Dukakis' lieutenant governor, Kerry told the New Yorker magazine last December, "When I get focused and set out to do something, I'm pretty good at staying focused." "You don't want to let yourself down, you know what I'm saying?" added the ambitious Democrat without a hint of irony. Thorne, whose family is reportedly worth $300 million, married Kerry in 1970. According the New Yorker's Joe Klein, the couple's friends said Julia was not a typical political wife. "There were times at dinner parties when John would be very pompous, unable to control his impulse to make a speech," one acquaintance told the writer. "It was all slightly laughable, and Julia was one of those who laughed. She'd say things like, 'What the f--k did you just say?'" Kerry's career focus was so intense that Thorne apparently felt she was an impediment to her husband's ambitions. In her 1994 book about that period in her life, titled "You Are Not Alone," she wrote: "I could no longer pretend I was of use to my husband or my children. ... I knew that, once I was gone, my family and friends would be relieved of the burden of my incompetency." By Thorne's own account, she began to contemplate suicide a full two years before Kerry ratcheted up his 1982 campaign. Reviewing her book shortly after it was published, the Boston Globe reported: "One night in 1980, Julia Thorne put her children to bed and then sat on the edge of her own bed to contemplate suicide. She was exhausted - overwhelmed by despair, self-loathing and pain. She wanted to lie down. Curl up. Sleep forever." The Kerrys were separated in 1982 but didn't divorce until 1988. Press summaries of the New Yorker report focused on other details of Kerry's life story, such as his Vietnam heroism. Most omitted any mention of Kerry's first wife altogether, a fact that likely pleased the Massachusetts Democrat. "Kerry is understandably loath to talk about the details of the marriage," noted Klein. In response to the New Yorker report, Sen. Kerry wrote what was described as "an anguished letter" of protest to the magazine. Thorne's two daughters by Kerry also registered their displeasure. Their mother, who has since conquered her depression and is happily remarried and living in Montana, told the Globe, "I support John's [presidential] candidacy, and I believe in John's candidacy. I think he is an immensely talented statesman, and I am 100 percent behind him." But previous reports indicate that Thorne had problems with Kerry even after they split 21 years ago. During the period the Kerrys were separated, for instance, the senator apparently felt little constrained by his marital vows. Gossip columns at the time linked him to Morgan Fairchild, Cornelia Guest and even President Reagan's liberal daughter, Patti Davis. An upcoming Boston Globe expose will reportedly feature details of the Massachusetts Democrat's 1980s affair with a 25-year-old British reporter. According to a previous account offered by the paper, the fact that Kerry was still technically married till 1988 "reportedly came as a surprise to some of his frequent companions." Just weeks before his May 26, 1995, remarriage to Ketchup heiress Theresa Heinz, Thorne took Kerry to court in a bid for an increase in child support payments, arguing that "his income was up substantially," according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Both Kerry and Thorne denied that the lawsuit had anything to do with Heinz or her fortune. But friction arose again two years later when Kerry, a Catholic, applied to the Washington, D.C., archdiocese to have his marriage to Thorne annulled, even though the couple had two grown daughters. Thorne "has written a letter of opposition to the archdiocese because she feels the process demeans their relationship and their children," reported the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1997. The paper blamed Kerry's new wife on the annulment bid. His office issued a terse statement: "Sen. Kerry very much understands Julia's feelings and appreciates her support. Sen. Kerry believes that this is a private family matter." The Washington Times noted in a Kerry profile several years ago that his critics consider him "a ruthless political opportunist." Given some of the more obscure details of Kerry's first marriage, that assessment may not be too far off the mark. <hr> He does like his wimmin rich doesn't he? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less. Last edited by maleficent; 07-29-2004 at 07:43 PM..

07-29-2004, 07:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Oh how I long for such power. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-29-2004, 07:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	Daaaaaaamn!! Thanks for dredging that up, Maleficent. So, he made her crazy and then got divorced...hmm. Glad she pulled through. I am a bit surprised that the Republicans haven't mentioned this yet, though that would be pretty low and I'm sure 'ol Georgie-boy has some stuff he doesn't want stirred up either. Thanks again, Maleficent. __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.

07-29-2004, 07:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Julia Thorne -- From Newsweek She was John Kerry's first love, but politics did not agree with her. So she fled the limelight. It's catching up to herBy Susannah Meadows NewsweekMay 3, 2004 issue - Julia Thorne has been trying to escape politics ever since rocks crashed through her window, barely missing her baby's crib, after her husband John Kerry ran for Congress in 1972. They'd met years before, while Kerry was still at Yale, after he'd already heard all about her from his buddy David Thorne, Julia's twin. She was wearing a bikini, riding around on the back of a car, when John Kerry saw the dashing 19-year-old for the first time, according to historian Doug Brinkley. They'd been married a few years when Kerry ran for office, and Thorne threw herself into getting him elected. "She was a real live wire, a very funny person, outrageous sometimes. She was a very positive force in the campaign," says Dan Payne, a former Kerry aide. But Kerry took a lot of heat for being antiwar, and lost. The nastiness of the race soured Thorne. As she would write in "A Change of Heart," her 1996 book about divorce, politics robbed her of the right to privacy and an autonomous life. "I was alone and overwhelmed, abandoned with a new baby in a town that held political disdain for us." When Thorne finally separated from Kerry in 1982, she was determined to find the privacy she'd craved for 12 years as a political wife, asking friends never to talk to the press about her. Thorne, who'd suffered from depression, worked through it and eventually fled Boston for Wyoming and then Montana, remarried and kept her past with the senator from Massachusetts to herself. "She kept saying, 'Don't tell them what town I live in. Just say Montana or in the West'," says Brinkley. But it hasn't been easy closing the door. An article in The New Yorker in 2002 portrayed her as being too depressed to take care of her own children. (The magazine subsequently published a letter from Kerry stating that Thorne was a wonderful mother.) Enraged by what she'd read, Thorne agreed to talk to Brinkley for his biography of Kerry, "Tour of Duty." "Her view was, 'I'm not going to be whitewashed out of history'," says Brinkley. So Thorne hauled out her old cardboard boxes and shared photos of the young couple posing in front of the big neon signs of old '60s California motels, and love letters from Kerry calling her "Darling" and "Bambi" and telling her she was all that mattered. (Kerry told Brinkley that a big reason he'd volunteered for Swift Boat duty in Vietnam—which is often cited as an example of his heroism—was so he could spend the summer with Thorne before training started. When asked if she'd ever heard that story before, their daughter Vanessa Kerry grew quiet and said, "No, but it wouldn't surprise me.") Now that the first love of Thorne's life is the presumptive Democratic nominee, her dreams of escaping politics may be dashed for good. Her daughters, with whom she speaks every few days, call her from the campaign trail. Thorne laughs at their stories from the road, and she has told friends that she's proud her daughters are campaigning for their father. But Vanessa says her mother's reaction has been more mixed. "The risk of us becoming more public is concerning for her. It's been a funny balancing act, trying to not make [her] an enigma but also to let her have her own life." Thorne remains a Kerry supporter, and sometimes called him after primary wins with her congratulations. Today she and her current husband, an architect, are active in local environmental issues and arts education, and she's working on a memoir about growing up in Italy. The local paper has discovered her, and slowly, townsfolk are waking up to the fact that they have the former wife of a presidential candidate in their midst. She's told friends that she's hopeful that Kerry will win. Just leave her out of it. © 2004 Newsweek __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-29-2004, 07:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	It's none of anyone's business, but since it derailed Jack Ryan in Illinois, Kerry is running for the highest office in the land, wouldn't it be interesting to see those divorce papers... (especially since he asked for an anullment a few years later) Ok, so they're not real.. but.... Kerry/Thorne Divorce Papers __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-30-2004, 05:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Nooooooo...... I thought making the divorce papers public was a disgrace with Jack Ryan and I think it would be a disgrace now. This is people's personal, private stuff. I don't think it has any bearing on their leadership, and it ought to stay where it belongs: in private. The stuff with Kerry and his first wife was 20 years ago, and she "remains a Kerry supporter." Was he an asshole to divorce her in the middle of a depressive episode? Probably, but who knows - could have been the best damn thing he could have done for her! The anullment is more problematic, but news flash: POLITICIANS ARE SELF INTERESTED SONS OF BITCHES for the most part. And don't get me started about Jack Ryan...that whole thing pisses me off to no end. I'm so sick of people being held up to some spurious puritan standard. The only problem there was that his wife had an issue with his sexual tastes, and it should be between them, not them and the whole fucking public. /fume __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

08-01-2004, 06:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	Doesn't matter. Business is business. Been through a divorce myself and your personal life is your own. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

08-01-2004, 06:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
redrum Crazy	When you want to be president there is no such thing as a personal life. __________________ "you say erb....we say herb.....because theres a fucking H in it"

08-01-2004, 07:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Why the hell would you care about anything having to do with a dirty politician? __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

08-02-2004, 06:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I'm am terrified of getting drawn into this type of debate again. However... I frankly don't care why he divorced the first Mrs Kerry, none of my business, that's between him and her (my original comment was purely tongue in cheek, because googling for the information about her, people are clamoring for that info) However, the annulment bugs the stuffing out of me and it speaks volumes of his character. And... well... Character matters. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-02-2004, 06:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cycler Float on.... Alright Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains, i.e. Oklahoma	When it comes down to matters of marriage, divorce, and job sometimes you have to separate them. Regardless of how your personal life is going you must still be able to do your job. It seems as if Kerry was still able to perform his duties even though his personal life was in the toliet. Been there done that. Not saying he did the best thing by his marriage but he was still able to perform his job at the time. __________________ "I'm not even supposed to be here today." "I assure you we're open."

08-02-2004, 08:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	EDITTED: this isn't Tilted Politics, and I don't really care all that much.. I do stand by my comment that all politicians are dirty scumbags, however. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/ Last edited by Carn; 08-02-2004 at 09:00 PM..

08-02-2004, 08:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	EDITTED __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/ Last edited by Carn; 08-02-2004 at 09:00 PM..

08-03-2004, 10:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
unoaman Loser Location: Scenic Drive	I'm in no way here to argue, or debate any material presented in this thread. I have my own thoughts, and will keep them to myself for a change. I am here to comment on annulment. Perhaps others participating in this thread are Catholic, and more informed than myself, if that is the case I would invite them to speak up. Even after a legal marriage, according to the Catholic Church, the marriage must be declared valid by the church. Even after a legal divorce, the same applies. An annulment is merely a decleration by the Church that the marriage wasn't valid in the first place. It doesn't have anything to do with love, or intent, or even the having of children, it's just saying that in the eyes of the Church, the marriage was not valid. Doesn't mean you were living in sin, doesn't mean the children are bastards...really affects nothing but ones standing in the Roman Catholic Church. A number of years after our divorce, my former wife asked for an annulment, even though we had children, and I had remarried. I granted her request (very hard to get one without former spouses cooperation), because she wanted to marry a very good man, and they both wanted it to be a Catholic wedding...something she could not have done as things stood at the time. The point being that regardless of anything else he might, or might not have done, the annulment should have no bearing on considering him for office.