05-12-2003, 01:54 PM | #1 (permalink) | |||
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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How to start a thread in General Discussion (a rant)
The wrong way:
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I don't know about some of you out there, but I'm seeing too many threads here being started "The wrong way". Bring some substance to the thread. Let us know why you've decided to post about this. Don't just post for the sake of posting. I have to thank Art, sixate, Troublebot, Cynthetiq, and a few others for their contributions. This is "General Discussion", not just "Pose a question and let people answer it". /end rant |
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05-12-2003, 03:28 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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Quote:
Other than that, this thread came purely from a comment made by Halx in another thread that demonstrated the WRONG way. I wont link the thread since which thread it is does not matter. |
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05-12-2003, 03:38 PM | #5 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Quote:
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"Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head |
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05-12-2003, 03:48 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Banned
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All i'm saying is that right and wrong a subjective. I do not disagree with jadziadax that that is a crappy way to start a thread, it is in my opinion.
And JD, I know you are a mod. but I would hope that you would not delete threads just because they offend your personal style. Are those rally you tits? If so, nice tits! |
05-12-2003, 03:55 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Center Ice
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I guess maybe I'm too knew to this place to really understand what the downside of a, "I just thought of something, what do you think" kind of thread.
I understand that the post for post sake type threads aren't always very thought provoking, but they don't seem criminal to me. What am I missing?
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The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat |
05-12-2003, 03:58 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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No changing the subject at hand... I keep a completely objective tone when moderating the board. Nothing personal if I delete, edit, or move your thread (and if I do, expect a PM from me). It's all in the best interest of the TFP. Did I delete these lame threads? No. Would I? Only if they are offensive, rude, against our rules, or completely inappropriate. I can only guide people in the right direction. It's what I do for a living; it's what I do here as a Moderator.
So, from those of you reading this thread, how about a pledge to attempt to start threads the "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach? |
05-12-2003, 03:59 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Loser
Location: With Jadzia
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Quote:
As mods we have to read all the threads, so what you see as a thread that you can not reply to and watch sink out of sight we see over and over. It's like movie reviewers who have to watch bad movies all day long. You wonder why they slam a movie you didn't think was so bad and you wonder what the big deal was. The fact is that after you've seen the same thing badly done too often it can get to you. Especially when you see it done right and well by folks like Sixate, Art and others. |
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05-12-2003, 04:11 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Watcher
Location: Ohio
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I'm going to preface my comments by stating that I do happen to agree with JadziaDax.
But....(you knew there was one coming, right?) See, well, this is Jaz's opinion. I don't know how far a mod's, or excuse me, supermod's opinion go towards being policy. It's not something I can find written out anywere in here. If Halx proffered his opinion in here (someing in the same vein as what we are discussing), it pretty much becomes law by default. I have no problem with that, it's his house I get to play in. I do have issues with people that are not Halx (IE mods/superduper mods) turning an opinion on a <i>style</i> issue into policy. I have this issue, not with power or judgement, but with complexity. I am not an advocate of written rule lists, I'd preffer to rely on an intellegent human's oversight. I say this so you know I'm not out to have all the specifics written down. That would devolve the TFP, and I don't want that. I do think the TFP has a long history of overcomplicating and nitpicking our own members, especially on matters of sytle. Each mod has his or her issues, like this one. This mod wants me to rate my posts; this mod isn't happy with one sentance replies; this mod doesn't like the way I start threads; this mod thinks I overuse links; I didn't give this thread enough "direction;" over here I could have quoted a source; over there I should have used less capital letters; see where I'm going? And I'm not talking about numerous PM's on those subjects, just threads and rants like this one. It becomes annyoing for an experianced user like myself (1k+ posts TFP 3.0), but I can handle it. I always fear for our newer users, those who don't yet know the limits. If our mods create an atmosphere that implies <i>someone</i> will find a problem...well they may just leave. I (emphasis) I, know what you will tag me for, and what you're just annoyed by, but that does not go for everyone here. I guess what I'm worried about it the creation of a perfectionist's paradise, where nothing is good enough. I know I'd leave. Thanks for listening. *edit* Just read RedRavin's post... I see what you mean about rereading the same crap over and over. But doesn't that come with the job?
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I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 05-12-2003 at 04:13 PM.. |
05-12-2003, 04:35 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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Just for the record, this was Halx's opinion of one of "those" threads...
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05-12-2003, 04:46 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
Loser
Location: With Jadzia
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I understand your feelings. Part of what makes TFP a great place is it is made up of adults and we try to treat everyone as such. That said.... Yes part of our job is dealing with the same crap over and over again. (In fact, Halx made the ability to do just that part of his earlier mod applications.) It doesn't mean we have to enjoy it. If we can gently nudge folks into doing things better we will. For our sanity if nothing else. Also Halx hired us because he trusts our judgment. No calls are made at random, we discuss any warnings and policy decision among ourselves in great detail. On TFP we only have to be consistent in our inconsistency. Last edited by redravin40; 05-12-2003 at 05:01 PM.. |
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05-12-2003, 04:57 PM | #14 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: MN
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For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts.
This is one subject that is on my mind quite a bit here at the TFP. I don't like to start theads for this very reason. I am never really sure how others are going to respond, and I really don't want to lose my membership. So if I want to post a question, does this mean I have to do research on the question before posting? On a certain level JadziaDax you have a good point, and I for one will do my best to post the better way. However, no every post is going to be written in the "better" way.
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I'm Just here to help. Now, Where is your problem? |
05-12-2003, 05:21 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Quote:
It's all about adding to the community and doing the best that you possibly can to achieve that goal.
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"Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head |
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05-12-2003, 07:53 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Loser
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A brief comment during a reply might be expectable.
However when "starting" a thread, a little more effort is expected. Comes with having your name on it. When it comes to moding I tend to live and let live, Unless it's violating one of the policies, Or it might harm a member or create a negative situation. Style is up to you, participation is really up to you. But if you don't really communicate, then you aren't really a part of the community. This is not wrong, but it is discouraged since interaction is what the TFP is all about. We are not asking for an essay, But write like you might talk, when you are asking a question of your friends. Try to think of your points, as if you were already discussing them with your friends. This will show the tone & general direction you want the thread to go. It's no guarantee, but it will definitely more likely spark something. Kick back, have fun, and chit-chat. It's a forum, dammit. |
05-12-2003, 07:53 PM | #19 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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It's a good conversationalist that presents a topic and also gives their own insight to it as a starting point.
There are lots of times where people present something to you and ask you are you for or against. Well, that's a survey/poll and while that's nice to track it doesn't bring more conversation. It doesn't take a lot of thought, if you are going to post something give us your opinion on it too. I promise, it will just add to the post.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
05-12-2003, 08:42 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: 'bout 2 feet from my iMac
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Quote:
#1: find an article/site/something interesting you'd like to quote. #2: highlight the stuff you want to copy. (this means clicking your mouse down at the beginning of the desired text, and dragging it to the end so the desired text is a different color) do NOT click your mouse again. #3: hold down the control key on your keyboard, and while holding it, hit the C key. (that was the hard part ) #4: go start a new thread, and put quote tags [quote) [/quote) (change the ()'s to []'s for them to work right), and put your cursor between them. #5: hold control again, and hit the V button to paste your text. #6: it's good nettiquette to provide a link to where you got your information, so also copy and paste the url of the site and put it in there somewhere!! that's all there is to it, and as easy as I can make it. |
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05-13-2003, 07:43 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-13-2003, 09:52 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Loser
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I reread the above again and agree with JadziaDax since I think there are threads that are a little lacking.However, I'm less concerned with a prefaced source than I am with someones creative thought process.
Take ARtelevision for instance.I enjoy his posts because the quotable source is intertwined creatively with his end thought or question regarding the matter. Another reason I enjoy his posts are because of his style, and the manner in which he does things. There is a thread regarding losing one's virginity. Even before I opened the thread,I had a great memory.Would I have had the same thought if I were greeted with some article stating the percent of people who lost their virginity at x age while combined with y,that being race,religion,socio-economic conditions,peer pressure etc..? I don't know,maybe. Maybe I wouldn't have responded. I understand the premise of the General Discussion and completely understand JadziaDax's point. My fear is that the same lack of thought that resembles some threads will transfer to 'sourced or referenced' threads (if you will) making it generic and formulaic. But what do I know,I don't make the rules. I'll have to wait and see how thing's play out. Last edited by gibber71; 05-13-2003 at 09:55 AM.. |
05-13-2003, 10:23 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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I find quality is like art. It is very hard to quantify, but "I know it when I see it."
Gibber made the point well with the 'virginity thread'. Of course, it was designed to be a winner simply because it invited everyone to reminisce fond memories. Billege also has some excellent points. I would hate to see this become a place where everyone must conform to a straight jacket standard or be booted. That isn't what the TFP is to me, nor do I think that's what it is to the other moderators. In the end, I think Jadzia has a great point and framed it well. She didn't 'lay down the law', she ranted. Her opinion matters because she cares deeply for TFP which resulted in the fact that she is now a supermod and not because she is a supermod.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
05-13-2003, 10:29 AM | #26 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-14-2003, 12:23 AM | #28 (permalink) |
Cute and Cuddly
Location: Teegeeack.
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Hey, I just have to say that the Mods here seems to be pretty damn nice. Which is not the same thing as being bad Mods.
I really like the overall attitude in this forum. Thanks for a job well done!
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The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000 |
05-14-2003, 09:42 AM | #29 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: around the corner
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I find that if there is an article or information of some sort it provides a point of ref. for the discussion which can be expanded upon, if not then the thread is asking for personal opp.'s to whatever the thread is about.
Why do I feel nervous posting with so many Mod's around ? |
05-14-2003, 11:41 AM | #30 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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bender, you shouldn't feel nervous. We don't bite..... hard.
But on a side note about threads. One thread mentioned was the "virginity" thread... It's a thread that does not belong in General Discussion. It is, instead, a Member's Playground type thread. The reason it hasn't been moved yet: The originator of the thread does not yet have enough criteria to be able to view the Playground. Once he does, be assured it will be moved. The point I was trying to make, that some people did get, was that if I have a bunch of threads that say "Fuck me. Yes or No?" What kind of discussion am I starting? Actually, NONE. All you doing is having people answer a question which they can usually do in very few words. We're looking for dialog, here. Nothing fantastic, nothing major, but more than a single word or sentence answer. There is not always a need to quote a source to do this. But make a statement. Don't just come into a thread with a single question which you, yourself don't even answer. And thanks, Lebell, for your understanding. Yes, I care deeply for this community, and I work hard to care for and improve it every chance I get. Now, I'm still waiting for those of you reading this thread: how about a pledge to attempt to start threads a "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach? |
05-14-2003, 11:50 AM | #31 (permalink) |
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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OK Jadz,
I promise I will try and do better when starting threads. Although I haven't started many, don't think I've started any on 4.0. I have fleeting ideas, but by the time I have made it to the board, I've forgotton what it was. |
05-14-2003, 12:16 PM | #32 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Wisconsin
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To all who support JadziaDax's position:
That was my post that Halx was responding to. I was seeking advice on whether to install DSL or cable for my internet connection. How dare I offend so many by mistakenly posting it in the wrong room. After all, I had posted at least 8 or 9 times when I started the link... Aesthetically, and with all due respect to mods, et al, it is the province of the thread starter to choose their format...if a person wants to start a thread in a manner that begs a yes/no answer, so be it. Please have faith that the thread starter will either get bored and frustrated by the lack of dialogue, or is happy getting the yes/no in which case they are free to continue on their merry, albeit shortsighted way. By the way, as for my very droll, boring and uninspired thread...I got 36 responses...and have had my questions answered. Thanks to the moderator who properly moved it to its appropriate location. |
05-14-2003, 12:51 PM | #34 (permalink) | |
Loser
Location: who the fuck cares?
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Quote:
You need to be clear. This is text. There are no tones or inflections like with voice. There are no facial expressions. And no one here is a mind reader (at least, not that I know of). This wasn't aimed at you specifically, d_p_w_k. It just happened to be your thread that Halx made his statement that I quoted. No need to apologize. Just take the pledge... ...to attempt to start threads a "better way". What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach? |
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05-14-2003, 01:12 PM | #35 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Wisconsin
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just out of curiousity...what was the "correct" way for me to start my thread?
Seems to me that "DSL or Cable, and why?" cannot be answered yes no, and requires both a choice and a defense of that choice. I promise that I am not TRYING to be an argumentative Ass (though I am sure you are concluding that i have been successful in being just that). Interestingly, a number of moderators participated in the thread... |
05-14-2003, 02:07 PM | #37 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
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To put a 'final word' to this so to speak...
Movements to influence styles of posts from moderators usually stem from suggestions made by me. I've made it clear to my mods on several occasions that I want posts to be of quality and I want them to contain as much useful information as possible if not a well-explained opinion. It's no doubt that Jadz speaks a great point here in her original post, and by this logic, plus the fact that she can enforce it, I would hope that you, my loyal readers, would take it as pseudo-policy. If you have an issue with policy, then you should know that you can come to any member of the staff and voice your opinion, including myself. As I say about all things - there is a stupid way to do it, a lazy way to do it, and a smart way to do it. I encourage you all to think about that before you do anything here on the TFP, and try to opt for the smart way. That's what builds a great community. When new members read the threads, if they are not intellectually stimulated, then they will get bored. It's as simple as that. Every thread is an advertisement for people to post on the TFP and you all, whether you like it or not, write our ads. It's a big responsibility if you start a thread. Please be sure you can handle it.
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You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] |
05-14-2003, 07:49 PM | #38 (permalink) |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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OK guys, noob here. I was the one that posted the "virginity" thread.
First of all, thanks to those of you that enjoyed it. That was its intent...for enjoyment. It was my first post, and I was surprised to see the response that it got. It received excellent, honest and varied replies...what more could I ask Second, I did not know that this type of discussion did not belong in the "General Discussion Board". As I said, I am new. I am learning my way around. I understand and respect the need for "privliges(sp)" to be earned, but where are the critera posted. I know that I need 50 posts to loose the "rookie" status, but then what? I know that I need 250 posts to earn avatar rights. What else don't I know? Help.
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
05-14-2003, 07:56 PM | #39 (permalink) |
Everything's better with bacon
Location: In your local grocer's freezer.
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The bottom line is post something substative in Gen. discussion or post it in Nonsense where it belongs. It must suck sometimes for the Mods to have to read the same kind of tripe that gets put up here.
On the other hand, everyone has the privelege(sp?) to post. That can be taken away if you post something that is offensive and inappropriate. Pretty simple. If you don't like someone's opinion, then you have a right to rebuff them, just be respectful. Most of the lame posts die anyway and some of them end up hijacked by follow-up posts and end up interesting.
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It was like that when I got here....I swear. |
05-15-2003, 03:53 PM | #40 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks
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Completely agree on this one. Though I do get annoyed by the trend to start a thread thus:
****** LINKY ------ Huge long article pasted here ------- Line or two comment ****** I have come to think of my threads as being like children. I want them all to grow into two pagers. I get so excited when I see that little [1,2] beside them. I also get cross with myself when they don't. Either they weren't a good topic to begin with or I haven't raised them properly! No three pagers yet, but I have faith. I would love it if there was some way of me seeing a list of all my threads and how they were coming along. Can I do this in the "user cp"? Also, when is something meant to be in Members Playground and when in General Discussion? I feel like a noob asking this, sorry. Only found out that the Members Playground was open to me the other day. Anyway, I pledge allegiance to good thread starting and wish you all the best with your own 'children'.
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I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless! |
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discussion, general, rant, start, thread |
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