How to start a thread in General Discussion (a rant) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JadziaDax · 05-12-2003, 01:54 PM

The wrong way:

Quote:

Are you for or against yadda-yadda-yadda?
Why?

The better way:

Quote:

I was reading this article found here: somewebaddress.com, and I thought about it. Here is a little of the article I found:

Quote:

article piece here

I think this about the article...
What do you think?

I don't know about some of you out there, but I'm seeing too many threads here being started "The wrong way". Bring some substance to the thread. Let us know why you've decided to post about this. Don't just post for the sake of posting.

I have to thank Art, sixate, Troublebot, Cynthetiq, and a few others for their contributions.

This is "General Discussion", not just "Pose a question and let people answer it".

/end rant

Mango · 05-12-2003, 02:56 PM

Who are you to decide what is right and wrong?

If people don't like the way a thread is started they can and do simply let it die.

JadziaDax · 05-12-2003, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
Who are you to decide what is right and wrong?

Uhm... a Moderator of this board. See that under my avatar? "Super Moderator". I think that gives me a lot of leverage. And if you'd like to dispute that, please PM me.

Other than that, this thread came purely from a comment made by Halx in another thread that demonstrated the WRONG way. I wont link the thread since which thread it is does not matter.

krwlz · 05-12-2003, 03:34 PM

i guess im guilty of that a few times, but ur right jadzia, it allows people to be so much more involved if you have something solid to back up the discussion..more focused

spectre · 05-12-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
If people don't like the way a thread is started they can and do simply let it die.

Very true, but if people continually post threads that just sit and die, the forum just gets cluttered with nothing but crap. Asking for just a little more isn't too much in my opinion. What's the harm in posting an article to go along with the thread? I dunno, I'm with JadziaDax on this one, I like the idea of a thread having something to it rather than, "cookies, what do ya think?" or something like that. It just makes it a little nicer to actually have a little direction in a thread rather than letting things run wild. *shrug*

Mango · 05-12-2003, 03:48 PM

All i'm saying is that right and wrong a subjective. I do not disagree with jadziadax that that is a crappy way to start a thread, it is in my opinion.
And JD, I know you are a mod. but I would hope that you would not delete threads just because they offend your personal style. Are those rally you tits? If so, nice tits!

Arock · 05-12-2003, 03:55 PM

I guess maybe I'm too knew to this place to really understand what the downside of a, "I just thought of something, what do you think" kind of thread.
I understand that the post for post sake type threads aren't always very thought provoking, but they don't seem criminal to me.

What am I missing?

JadziaDax · 05-12-2003, 03:58 PM

No changing the subject at hand... I keep a completely objective tone when moderating the board. Nothing personal if I delete, edit, or move your thread (and if I do, expect a PM from me). It's all in the best interest of the TFP. Did I delete these lame threads? No. Would I? Only if they are offensive, rude, against our rules, or completely inappropriate. I can only guide people in the right direction. It's what I do for a living; it's what I do here as a Moderator.

So, from those of you reading this thread, how about a pledge to attempt to start threads the "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach?

redravin40 · 05-12-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
Who are you to decide what is right and wrong?

If people don't like the way a thread is started they can and do simply let it die.

Not to seem like we're jumping on you mango but .....

As mods we have to read all the threads, so what you see as a thread that you can not reply to and watch sink out of sight we see over and over.
It's like movie reviewers who have to watch bad movies all day long.
You wonder why they slam a movie you didn't think was so bad and you wonder what the big deal was.
The fact is that after you've seen the same thing badly done too often it can get to you.
Especially when you see it done right and well by folks like Sixate, Art and others.

billege · 05-12-2003, 04:11 PM

I'm going to preface my comments by stating that I do happen to agree with JadziaDax.

But....(you knew there was one coming, right?)

See, well, this is Jaz's opinion. I don't know how far a mod's, or excuse me, supermod's opinion go towards being policy. It's not something I can find written out anywere in here.

If Halx proffered his opinion in here (someing in the same vein as what we are discussing), it pretty much becomes law by default.

I have no problem with that, it's his house I get to play in.

I do have issues with people that are not Halx (IE mods/superduper mods) turning an opinion on a <i>style</i> issue into policy.

I have this issue, not with power or judgement, but with complexity.

I am not an advocate of written rule lists, I'd preffer to rely on an intellegent human's oversight. I say this so you know I'm not out to have all the specifics written down. That would devolve the TFP, and I don't want that.

I do think the TFP has a long history of overcomplicating and nitpicking our own members, especially on matters of sytle.
Each mod has his or her issues, like this one. This mod wants me to rate my posts; this mod isn't happy with one sentance replies; this mod doesn't like the way I start threads; this mod thinks I overuse links; I didn't give this thread enough "direction;" over here I could have quoted a source; over there I should have used less capital letters; see where I'm going?

And I'm not talking about numerous PM's on those subjects, just threads and rants like this one.

It becomes annyoing for an experianced user like myself (1k+ posts TFP 3.0), but I can handle it. I always fear for our newer users, those who don't yet know the limits.
If our mods create an atmosphere that implies <i>someone</i> will find a problem...well they may just leave.

I (emphasis) I, know what you will tag me for, and what you're just annoyed by, but that does not go for everyone here.

I guess what I'm worried about it the creation of a perfectionist's paradise, where nothing is good enough. I know I'd leave.

Thanks for listening.

*edit*

Just read RedRavin's post...

I see what you mean about rereading the same crap over and over. But doesn't that come with the job?

JadziaDax · 05-12-2003, 04:35 PM

Just for the record, this was Halx's opinion of one of "those" threads...

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
from the title, I thought this was going to be an insightful post about dating online... instead it was 5 words long... faith.. in.. humanity... slipping

billege · 05-12-2003, 04:36 PM

Yes, I read it.

After, of course, I saw this one. Timing...

redravin40 · 05-12-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billege
I guess what I'm worried about it the creation of a perfectionist's paradise, where nothing is good enough. I know I'd leave.

Thanks for listening.

*edit*

Just read RedRavin's post...

I see what you mean about rereading the same crap over and over. But doesn't that come with the job?

Billage my friend,

I understand your feelings. Part of what makes TFP a great place is it is made up of adults and we try to treat everyone as such.
That said....
Yes part of our job is dealing with the same crap over and over again. (In fact, Halx made the ability to do just that part of his earlier mod applications.)
It doesn't mean we have to enjoy it.
If we can gently nudge folks into doing things better we will.
For our sanity if nothing else.
Also Halx hired us because he trusts our judgment.
No calls are made at random, we discuss any warnings and policy decision among ourselves in great detail.
On TFP we only have to be consistent in our inconsistency.

yodapaul · 05-12-2003, 04:57 PM

For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts.
This is one subject that is on my mind quite a bit here at the TFP. I don't like to start theads for this very reason. I am never really sure how others are going to respond, and I really don't want to lose my membership. So if I want to post a question, does this mean I have to do research on the question before posting?

On a certain level JadziaDax you have a good point, and I for one will do my best to post the better way. However, no every post is going to be written in the "better" way.

spectre · 05-12-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yodapaul
For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts.
This is one subject that is on my mind quite a bit here at the TFP. I don't like to start theads for this very reason. I am never really sure how others are going to respond, and I really don't want to lose my membership. So if I want to post a question, does this mean I have to do research on the question before posting?

No, you have no worries about your memebership if you post in that manner. But, look at the members that generally tend to get the most respect in terms of how they're viewed with their posts. Those that you see people aspiring to be are guys like sixate, LD, and art who always include more than just a few words. It brings the level of discourse up. It's better to give an example of what you want rather than just asking a one sentence question and leaving it at that. How many times have you seen people ask for a link or an explaination when there is no information given by the thread starter? It ends up detracting from the thread. Why waste the time fixing the thread later when you can make it the best that you possibly can from the beginning.

It's all about adding to the community and doing the best that you possibly can to achieve that goal.

yodapaul · 05-12-2003, 05:28 PM

Ahh, Ok know I understand whats going on, and thanks for clearing that up spectre. Here's to better posting.

gibber71 · 05-12-2003, 07:32 PM

I completely understand and offer my apologizes.I 'm one person who does what you guy's hate.But listen, I'm a guitar player,not a computer guy. When I figure out how to paste shit,I'll be in the game.

rogue49 · 05-12-2003, 07:53 PM

A brief comment during a reply might be expectable.
However when "starting" a thread, a little more effort is expected.
Comes with having your name on it.

When it comes to moding I tend to live and let live,
Unless it's violating one of the policies,
Or it might harm a member or create a negative situation.

Style is up to you, participation is really up to you.
But if you don't really communicate, then you aren't really a part of the community.
This is not wrong, but it is discouraged since interaction is what the TFP is all about.

We are not asking for an essay,
But write like you might talk, when you are asking a question of your friends.
Try to think of your points, as if you were already discussing them with your friends.
This will show the tone & general direction you want the thread to go.
It's no guarantee, but it will definitely more likely spark something.

Kick back, have fun, and chit-chat.
It's a forum, dammit.

Cynthetiq · 05-12-2003, 07:53 PM

It's a good conversationalist that presents a topic and also gives their own insight to it as a starting point.

There are lots of times where people present something to you and ask you are you for or against. Well, that's a survey/poll and while that's nice to track it doesn't bring more conversation.

It doesn't take a lot of thought, if you are going to post something give us your opinion on it too. I promise, it will just add to the post.

cheerios · 05-12-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gibber71
I completely understand and offer my apologizes.I 'm one person who does what you guy's hate.But listen, I'm a guitar player,not a computer guy. When I figure out how to paste shit,I'll be in the game.

well here we go then! this will take you, a computer with internet, and a keyboard.

#1: find an article/site/something interesting you'd like to quote.
#2: highlight the stuff you want to copy. (this means clicking your mouse down at the beginning of the desired text, and dragging it to the end so the desired text is a different color)
do NOT click your mouse again.
#3: hold down the control key on your keyboard, and while holding it, hit the C key. (that was the hard part

)
#4: go start a new thread, and put quote tags [quote) [/quote) (change the ()'s to []'s for them to work right), and put your cursor between them.
#5: hold control again, and hit the V button to paste your text.
#6: it's good nettiquette to provide a link to where you got your information, so also copy and paste the url of the site and put it in there somewhere!!

that's all there is to it, and as easy as I can make it.

gibber71 · 05-13-2003, 07:29 AM

Thank's cheerios.Free guitar lessons for you.

warrrreagl · 05-13-2003, 07:34 AM

Gee whiz, I think I've been the most guilty of anybody for starting threads the wrong way.

Cynthetiq · 05-13-2003, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheerios
well here we go then! this will take you, a computer with internet, and a keyboard.

#1: find an article/site/something interesting you'd like to quote.
#2: highlight the stuff you want to copy. (this means clicking your mouse down at the beginning of the desired text, and dragging it to the end so the desired text is a different color)
do NOT click your mouse again.
#3: hold down the control key on your keyboard, and while holding it, hit the C key. (that was the hard part )
#4: go start a new thread, and put quote tags [quote) [/quote) (change the ()'s to []'s for them to work right), and put your cursor between them.
#5: hold control again, and hit the V button to paste your text.
#6: it's good nettiquette to provide a link to where you got your information, so also copy and paste the url of the site and put it in there somewhere!!

that's all there is to it, and as easy as I can make it.

and for those MacAddicts out there... use COMMAND instead of control.

gibber71 · 05-13-2003, 09:52 AM

I reread the above again and agree with JadziaDax since I think there are threads that are a little lacking.However, I'm less concerned with a prefaced source than I am with someones creative thought process.

Take ARtelevision for instance.I enjoy his posts because the quotable source is intertwined creatively with his end thought or question regarding the matter. Another reason I enjoy his posts are because of his style, and the manner in which he does things.

There is a thread regarding losing one's virginity. Even before I opened the thread,I had a great memory.Would I have had the same thought if I were greeted with some article stating the percent of people who lost their virginity at x age while combined with y,that being race,religion,socio-economic conditions,peer pressure etc..? I don't know,maybe. Maybe I wouldn't have responded.

I understand the premise of the General Discussion and completely understand JadziaDax's point. My fear is that the same lack of thought that resembles some threads will transfer to 'sourced or referenced' threads (if you will) making it generic and formulaic. But what do I know,I don't make the rules. I'll have to wait and see how thing's play out.

Lebell · 05-13-2003, 10:23 AM

I find quality is like art. It is very hard to quantify, but "I know it when I see it."

Gibber made the point well with the 'virginity thread'. Of course, it was designed to be a winner simply because it invited everyone to reminisce fond memories.

Billege also has some excellent points. I would hate to see this become a place where everyone must conform to a straight jacket standard or be booted. That isn't what the TFP is to me, nor do I think that's what it is to the other moderators.

In the end, I think Jadzia has a great point and framed it well. She didn't 'lay down the law', she ranted. Her opinion matters because she cares deeply for TFP which resulted in the fact that she is now a supermod and not because she is a supermod.

Cynthetiq · 05-13-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yodapaul
For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts.
This is one subject that is on my mind quite a bit here at the TFP. I don't like to start theads for this very reason. I am never really sure how others are going to respond, and I really don't want to lose my membership. So if I want to post a question, does this mean I have to do research on the question before posting?

On a certain level JadziaDax you have a good point, and I for one will do my best to post the better way. However, no every post is going to be written in the "better" way.

true.. but with practice and repitition.. you'll get better at posting. Some of the posts that I did in v3.0 didn't get any views. It was learning just what topics that I wrote well about, and how I had good formed opinions about them in order to try to start a dialogue. Sometimes I would end my post with simply,"I cannot post yet until I've figured out what my position is on this subject. I will read some other arguments and then address it."

rockwaldo · 05-13-2003, 04:19 PM

i must admit, i never thought about it - but you're right!
mind you, i havent started a thread yet, so im exempt.....

XenuHubbard · 05-14-2003, 12:23 AM

Hey, I just have to say that the Mods here seems to be pretty damn nice. Which is not the same thing as being bad Mods.

I really like the overall attitude in this forum.
Thanks for a job well done!

bender · 05-14-2003, 09:42 AM

I find that if there is an article or information of some sort it provides a point of ref. for the discussion which can be expanded upon, if not then the thread is asking for personal opp.'s to whatever the thread is about.
Why do I feel nervous posting with so many Mod's around ?

JadziaDax · 05-14-2003, 11:41 AM

bender, you shouldn't feel nervous. We don't bite..... hard.

But on a side note about threads. One thread mentioned was the "virginity" thread... It's a thread that does not belong in General Discussion. It is, instead, a Member's Playground type thread. The reason it hasn't been moved yet: The originator of the thread does not yet have enough criteria to be able to view the Playground. Once he does, be assured it will be moved.

The point I was trying to make, that some people did get, was that if I have a bunch of threads that say "Fuck me. Yes or No?" What kind of discussion am I starting? Actually, NONE. All you doing is having people answer a question which they can usually do in very few words.

We're looking for dialog, here. Nothing fantastic, nothing major, but more than a single word or sentence answer. There is not always a need to quote a source to do this. But make a statement. Don't just come into a thread with a single question which you, yourself don't even answer.

And thanks, Lebell, for your understanding. Yes, I care deeply for this community, and I work hard to care for and improve it every chance I get.

Now, I'm still waiting for those of you reading this thread: how about a pledge to attempt to start threads a "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach?

hrdwareguy · 05-14-2003, 11:50 AM

OK Jadz,

I promise I will try and do better when starting threads. Although I haven't started many, don't think I've started any on 4.0. I have fleeting ideas, but by the time I have made it to the board, I've forgotton what it was.

d_p_w_k · 05-14-2003, 12:16 PM

To all who support JadziaDax's position:

That was my post that Halx was responding to. I was seeking advice on whether to install DSL or cable for my internet connection. How dare I offend so many by mistakenly posting it in the wrong room. After all, I had posted at least 8 or 9 times when I started the link...

Aesthetically, and with all due respect to mods, et al, it is the province of the thread starter to choose their format...if a person wants to start a thread in a manner that begs a yes/no answer, so be it. Please have faith that the thread starter will either get bored and frustrated by the lack of dialogue, or is happy getting the yes/no in which case they are free to continue on their merry, albeit shortsighted way.

By the way, as for my very droll, boring and uninspired thread...I got 36 responses...and have had my questions answered.

Thanks to the moderator who properly moved it to its appropriate location.

d_p_w_k · 05-14-2003, 12:44 PM

sheesh...i may not know how to start a thread, but i certainly can kill one quickly.....sorry

JadziaDax · 05-14-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by d_p_w_k
I was seeking advice on whether to install DSL or cable for my internet connection.

And here is my very point. From the thread in question, we didn't know that you were asking which you should install. The first few people thought you were asking which they had.

You need to be clear. This is text. There are no tones or inflections like with voice. There are no facial expressions. And no one here is a mind reader (at least, not that I know of).

This wasn't aimed at you specifically, d_p_w_k. It just happened to be your thread that Halx made his statement that I quoted.

No need to apologize. Just take the pledge...

...to attempt to start threads a "better way". What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach?

d_p_w_k · 05-14-2003, 01:12 PM

just out of curiousity...what was the "correct" way for me to start my thread?

Seems to me that "DSL or Cable, and why?" cannot be answered yes no, and requires both a choice and a defense of that choice.

I promise that I am not TRYING to be an argumentative Ass (though I am sure you are concluding that i have been successful in being just that). Interestingly, a number of moderators participated in the thread...

fuelmyfire · 05-14-2003, 01:46 PM

who cares? it's just a message board, give it up.

let people post however they want without petty, annoying rules.

that's my rant

Halx · 05-14-2003, 02:07 PM

To put a 'final word' to this so to speak...

Movements to influence styles of posts from moderators usually stem from suggestions made by me. I've made it clear to my mods on several occasions that I want posts to be of quality and I want them to contain as much useful information as possible if not a well-explained opinion.

It's no doubt that Jadz speaks a great point here in her original post, and by this logic, plus the fact that she can enforce it, I would hope that you, my loyal readers, would take it as pseudo-policy. If you have an issue with policy, then you should know that you can come to any member of the staff and voice your opinion, including myself.

As I say about all things - there is a stupid way to do it, a lazy way to do it, and a smart way to do it. I encourage you all to think about that before you do anything here on the TFP, and try to opt for the smart way. That's what builds a great community. When new members read the threads, if they are not intellectually stimulated, then they will get bored. It's as simple as that. Every thread is an advertisement for people to post on the TFP and you all, whether you like it or not, write our ads. It's a big responsibility if you start a thread. Please be sure you can handle it.

Bill O'Rights · 05-14-2003, 07:49 PM

OK guys, noob here. I was the one that posted the "virginity" thread.

First of all, thanks to those of you that enjoyed it. That was its intent...for enjoyment. It was my first post, and I was surprised to see the response that it got. It received excellent, honest and varied replies...what more could I ask

Second, I did not know that this type of discussion did not belong in the "General Discussion Board". As I said, I am new. I am learning my way around. I understand and respect the need for "privliges(sp)" to be earned, but where are the critera posted. I know that I need 50 posts to loose the "rookie" status, but then what? I know that I need 250 posts to earn avatar rights. What else don't I know? Help.

SaltPork · 05-14-2003, 07:56 PM

The bottom line is post something substative in Gen. discussion or post it in Nonsense where it belongs. It must suck sometimes for the Mods to have to read the same kind of tripe that gets put up here.

On the other hand, everyone has the privelege(sp?) to post. That can be taken away if you post something that is offensive and inappropriate. Pretty simple.

If you don't like someone's opinion, then you have a right to rebuff them, just be respectful. Most of the lame posts die anyway and some of them end up hijacked by follow-up posts and end up interesting.

4thTimeLucky · 05-15-2003, 03:53 PM

Completely agree on this one. Though I do get annoyed by the trend to start a thread thus:

******
LINKY
------
Huge long article pasted here
-------
Line or two comment
******

I have come to think of my threads as being like children. I want them all to grow into two pagers. I get so excited when I see that little [1,2] beside them. I also get cross with myself when they don't. Either they weren't a good topic to begin with or I haven't raised them properly! No three pagers yet, but I have faith.

I would love it if there was some way of me seeing a list of all my threads and how they were coming along. Can I do this in the "user cp"?
Also, when is something meant to be in Members Playground and when in General Discussion? I feel like a noob asking this, sorry. Only found out that the Members Playground was open to me the other day.

Anyway, I pledge allegiance to good thread starting and wish you all the best with your own 'children'.

05-12-2003, 03:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
Arock Crazy Location: Center Ice	I guess maybe I'm too knew to this place to really understand what the downside of a, "I just thought of something, what do you think" kind of thread. I understand that the post for post sake type threads aren't always very thought provoking, but they don't seem criminal to me. What am I missing? __________________ The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat

05-12-2003, 04:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I'm going to preface my comments by stating that I do happen to agree with JadziaDax. But....(you knew there was one coming, right?) See, well, this is Jaz's opinion. I don't know how far a mod's, or excuse me, supermod's opinion go towards being policy. It's not something I can find written out anywere in here. If Halx proffered his opinion in here (someing in the same vein as what we are discussing), it pretty much becomes law by default. I have no problem with that, it's his house I get to play in. I do have issues with people that are not Halx (IE mods/superduper mods) turning an opinion on a <i>style</i> issue into policy. I have this issue, not with power or judgement, but with complexity. I am not an advocate of written rule lists, I'd preffer to rely on an intellegent human's oversight. I say this so you know I'm not out to have all the specifics written down. That would devolve the TFP, and I don't want that. I do think the TFP has a long history of overcomplicating and nitpicking our own members, especially on matters of sytle. Each mod has his or her issues, like this one. This mod wants me to rate my posts; this mod isn't happy with one sentance replies; this mod doesn't like the way I start threads; this mod thinks I overuse links; I didn't give this thread enough "direction;" over here I could have quoted a source; over there I should have used less capital letters; see where I'm going? And I'm not talking about numerous PM's on those subjects, just threads and rants like this one. It becomes annyoing for an experianced user like myself (1k+ posts TFP 3.0), but I can handle it. I always fear for our newer users, those who don't yet know the limits. If our mods create an atmosphere that implies <i>someone</i> will find a problem...well they may just leave. I (emphasis) I, know what you will tag me for, and what you're just annoyed by, but that does not go for everyone here. I guess what I'm worried about it the creation of a perfectionist's paradise, where nothing is good enough. I know I'd leave. Thanks for listening. edit Just read RedRavin's post... I see what you mean about rereading the same crap over and over. But doesn't that come with the job? __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 05-12-2003 at 04:13 PM..

05-12-2003, 04:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Yes, I read it. After, of course, I saw this one. Timing... __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

05-12-2003, 04:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
yodapaul Insane Location: MN	For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts. This is one subject that is on my mind quite a bit here at the TFP. I don't like to start theads for this very reason. I am never really sure how others are going to respond, and I really don't want to lose my membership. So if I want to post a question, does this mean I have to do research on the question before posting? On a certain level JadziaDax you have a good point, and I for one will do my best to post the better way. However, no every post is going to be written in the "better" way. __________________ I'm Just here to help. Now, Where is your problem?

05-12-2003, 05:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
yodapaul Insane Location: MN	Ahh, Ok know I understand whats going on, and thanks for clearing that up spectre. Here's to better posting. __________________ I'm Just here to help. Now, Where is your problem?

05-12-2003, 02:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mango Banned	Who are you to decide what is right and wrong? If people don't like the way a thread is started they can and do simply let it die.

05-12-2003, 03:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	i guess im guilty of that a few times, but ur right jadzia, it allows people to be so much more involved if you have something solid to back up the discussion..more focused

05-12-2003, 03:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mango Banned	All i'm saying is that right and wrong a subjective. I do not disagree with jadziadax that that is a crappy way to start a thread, it is in my opinion. And JD, I know you are a mod. but I would hope that you would not delete threads just because they offend your personal style. Are those rally you tits? If so, nice tits!

05-12-2003, 03:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
JadziaDax Loser Location: who the fuck cares?	No changing the subject at hand... I keep a completely objective tone when moderating the board. Nothing personal if I delete, edit, or move your thread (and if I do, expect a PM from me). It's all in the best interest of the TFP. Did I delete these lame threads? No. Would I? Only if they are offensive, rude, against our rules, or completely inappropriate. I can only guide people in the right direction. It's what I do for a living; it's what I do here as a Moderator. So, from those of you reading this thread, how about a pledge to attempt to start threads the "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach?

05-12-2003, 07:32 PM	#17 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	I completely understand and offer my apologizes.I 'm one person who does what you guy's hate.But listen, I'm a guitar player,not a computer guy. When I figure out how to paste shit,I'll be in the game.

05-12-2003, 07:53 PM	#18 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	A brief comment during a reply might be expectable. However when "starting" a thread, a little more effort is expected. Comes with having your name on it. When it comes to moding I tend to live and let live, Unless it's violating one of the policies, Or it might harm a member or create a negative situation. Style is up to you, participation is really up to you. But if you don't really communicate, then you aren't really a part of the community. This is not wrong, but it is discouraged since interaction is what the TFP is all about. We are not asking for an essay, But write like you might talk, when you are asking a question of your friends. Try to think of your points, as if you were already discussing them with your friends. This will show the tone & general direction you want the thread to go. It's no guarantee, but it will definitely more likely spark something. Kick back, have fun, and chit-chat. It's a forum, dammit.

05-12-2003, 07:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	It's a good conversationalist that presents a topic and also gives their own insight to it as a starting point. There are lots of times where people present something to you and ask you are you for or against. Well, that's a survey/poll and while that's nice to track it doesn't bring more conversation. It doesn't take a lot of thought, if you are going to post something give us your opinion on it too. I promise, it will just add to the post. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-13-2003, 07:29 AM	#21 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	Thank's cheerios.Free guitar lessons for you.

05-13-2003, 07:34 AM	#22 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	Gee whiz, I think I've been the most guilty of anybody for starting threads the wrong way. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

05-13-2003, 09:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	I reread the above again and agree with JadziaDax since I think there are threads that are a little lacking.However, I'm less concerned with a prefaced source than I am with someones creative thought process. Take ARtelevision for instance.I enjoy his posts because the quotable source is intertwined creatively with his end thought or question regarding the matter. Another reason I enjoy his posts are because of his style, and the manner in which he does things. There is a thread regarding losing one's virginity. Even before I opened the thread,I had a great memory.Would I have had the same thought if I were greeted with some article stating the percent of people who lost their virginity at x age while combined with y,that being race,religion,socio-economic conditions,peer pressure etc..? I don't know,maybe. Maybe I wouldn't have responded. I understand the premise of the General Discussion and completely understand JadziaDax's point. My fear is that the same lack of thought that resembles some threads will transfer to 'sourced or referenced' threads (if you will) making it generic and formulaic. But what do I know,I don't make the rules. I'll have to wait and see how thing's play out. Last edited by gibber71; 05-13-2003 at 09:55 AM..

05-13-2003, 10:23 AM	#25 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I find quality is like art. It is very hard to quantify, but "I know it when I see it." Gibber made the point well with the 'virginity thread'. Of course, it was designed to be a winner simply because it invited everyone to reminisce fond memories. Billege also has some excellent points. I would hate to see this become a place where everyone must conform to a straight jacket standard or be booted. That isn't what the TFP is to me, nor do I think that's what it is to the other moderators. In the end, I think Jadzia has a great point and framed it well. She didn't 'lay down the law', she ranted. Her opinion matters because she cares deeply for TFP which resulted in the fact that she is now a supermod and not because she is a supermod. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-13-2003, 04:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
rockwaldo Tilted	i must admit, i never thought about it - but you're right! mind you, i havent started a thread yet, so im exempt.....

05-14-2003, 12:23 AM	#28 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	Hey, I just have to say that the Mods here seems to be pretty damn nice. Which is not the same thing as being bad Mods. I really like the overall attitude in this forum. Thanks for a job well done! __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

05-14-2003, 09:42 AM	#29 (permalink)
bender Addict Location: around the corner	I find that if there is an article or information of some sort it provides a point of ref. for the discussion which can be expanded upon, if not then the thread is asking for personal opp.'s to whatever the thread is about. Why do I feel nervous posting with so many Mod's around ?

05-14-2003, 11:41 AM	#30 (permalink)
JadziaDax Loser Location: who the fuck cares?	bender, you shouldn't feel nervous. We don't bite..... hard. But on a side note about threads. One thread mentioned was the "virginity" thread... It's a thread that does not belong in General Discussion. It is, instead, a Member's Playground type thread. The reason it hasn't been moved yet: The originator of the thread does not yet have enough criteria to be able to view the Playground. Once he does, be assured it will be moved. The point I was trying to make, that some people did get, was that if I have a bunch of threads that say "Fuck me. Yes or No?" What kind of discussion am I starting? Actually, NONE. All you doing is having people answer a question which they can usually do in very few words. We're looking for dialog, here. Nothing fantastic, nothing major, but more than a single word or sentence answer. There is not always a need to quote a source to do this. But make a statement. Don't just come into a thread with a single question which you, yourself don't even answer. And thanks, Lebell, for your understanding. Yes, I care deeply for this community, and I work hard to care for and improve it every chance I get. Now, I'm still waiting for those of you reading this thread: how about a pledge to attempt to start threads a "better way"? What can it hurt to try to get away from the "yes or no" single sentence thread starting approach?

05-14-2003, 11:50 AM	#31 (permalink)
hrdwareguy "Officer, I was in fear for my life" Location: Oklahoma City	OK Jadz, I promise I will try and do better when starting threads. Although I haven't started many, don't think I've started any on 4.0. I have fleeting ideas, but by the time I have made it to the board, I've forgotton what it was. __________________ Gun Control is hitting what you aim at Aim for the TFP, Donate Today

05-14-2003, 12:16 PM	#32 (permalink)
d_p_w_k Upright Location: Wisconsin	To all who support JadziaDax's position: That was my post that Halx was responding to. I was seeking advice on whether to install DSL or cable for my internet connection. How dare I offend so many by mistakenly posting it in the wrong room. After all, I had posted at least 8 or 9 times when I started the link... Aesthetically, and with all due respect to mods, et al, it is the province of the thread starter to choose their format...if a person wants to start a thread in a manner that begs a yes/no answer, so be it. Please have faith that the thread starter will either get bored and frustrated by the lack of dialogue, or is happy getting the yes/no in which case they are free to continue on their merry, albeit shortsighted way. By the way, as for my very droll, boring and uninspired thread...I got 36 responses...and have had my questions answered. Thanks to the moderator who properly moved it to its appropriate location.

05-14-2003, 12:44 PM	#33 (permalink)
d_p_w_k Upright Location: Wisconsin	sheesh...i may not know how to start a thread, but i certainly can kill one quickly.....sorry

05-14-2003, 01:12 PM	#35 (permalink)
d_p_w_k Upright Location: Wisconsin	just out of curiousity...what was the "correct" way for me to start my thread? Seems to me that "DSL or Cable, and why?" cannot be answered yes no, and requires both a choice and a defense of that choice. I promise that I am not TRYING to be an argumentative Ass (though I am sure you are concluding that i have been successful in being just that). Interestingly, a number of moderators participated in the thread...

05-14-2003, 01:46 PM	#36 (permalink)
fuelmyfire Insane	who cares? it's just a message board, give it up. let people post however they want without petty, annoying rules. that's my rant

05-14-2003, 02:07 PM	#37 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	To put a 'final word' to this so to speak... Movements to influence styles of posts from moderators usually stem from suggestions made by me. I've made it clear to my mods on several occasions that I want posts to be of quality and I want them to contain as much useful information as possible if not a well-explained opinion. It's no doubt that Jadz speaks a great point here in her original post, and by this logic, plus the fact that she can enforce it, I would hope that you, my loyal readers, would take it as pseudo-policy. If you have an issue with policy, then you should know that you can come to any member of the staff and voice your opinion, including myself. As I say about all things - there is a stupid way to do it, a lazy way to do it, and a smart way to do it. I encourage you all to think about that before you do anything here on the TFP, and try to opt for the smart way. That's what builds a great community. When new members read the threads, if they are not intellectually stimulated, then they will get bored. It's as simple as that. Every thread is an advertisement for people to post on the TFP and you all, whether you like it or not, write our ads. It's a big responsibility if you start a thread. Please be sure you can handle it. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

05-14-2003, 07:49 PM	#38 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	OK guys, noob here. I was the one that posted the "virginity" thread. First of all, thanks to those of you that enjoyed it. That was its intent...for enjoyment. It was my first post, and I was surprised to see the response that it got. It received excellent, honest and varied replies...what more could I ask Second, I did not know that this type of discussion did not belong in the "General Discussion Board". As I said, I am new. I am learning my way around. I understand and respect the need for "privliges(sp)" to be earned, but where are the critera posted. I know that I need 50 posts to loose the "rookie" status, but then what? I know that I need 250 posts to earn avatar rights. What else don't I know? Help. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

05-14-2003, 07:56 PM	#39 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	The bottom line is post something substative in Gen. discussion or post it in Nonsense where it belongs. It must suck sometimes for the Mods to have to read the same kind of tripe that gets put up here. On the other hand, everyone has the privelege(sp?) to post. That can be taken away if you post something that is offensive and inappropriate. Pretty simple. If you don't like someone's opinion, then you have a right to rebuff them, just be respectful. Most of the lame posts die anyway and some of them end up hijacked by follow-up posts and end up interesting. __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.

05-15-2003, 03:53 PM	#40 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	Completely agree on this one. Though I do get annoyed by the trend to start a thread thus: **** LINKY ------ Huge long article pasted here ------- Line or two comment **** I have come to think of my threads as being like children. I want them all to grow into two pagers. I get so excited when I see that little [1,2] beside them. I also get cross with myself when they don't. Either they weren't a good topic to begin with or I haven't raised them properly! No three pagers yet, but I have faith. I would love it if there was some way of me seeing a list of all my threads and how they were coming along. Can I do this in the "user cp"? Also, when is something meant to be in Members Playground and when in General Discussion? I feel like a noob asking this, sorry. Only found out that the Members Playground was open to me the other day. Anyway, I pledge allegiance to good thread starting and wish you all the best with your own 'children'. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!