H12

We generally don't have to, since every party before this incident has gone very smooth. Now, because of those two drunken fools, we likely will have to make that a policy.



Also, about the "you shouldn't have to drink to have fun" speech...you're absolutely right. It IS illegal. However, I think it's bullshit that the "you can die for your country at 18, but you can't drink" policy exists, period. Of course, that's my rebel-side coming through. Now, I'll be reasonable and logical. In many cases, as crow_daw can testify, I'm a good example of what you said; I truly try not to drink, unless it's a special occasion...such as my birthday party. I'm very responsible (I refused to drive home that night, no matter what, and had my friend drop me off at the other birthday boy's house), and I know my limits. I think that's as much as you can ask for from someone who is still going to drink.

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Chingal0

Like was said earlier, that is fucking bullshit and it pisses me off just reading it. Not saying that anyone I hang around with are gangsters, infact it's the opposite, but I can almost guarantee if that activity were taking place at one of our parties, birthday noless, a gun or three would have been pulled on that fucker and he would have been made to leave. That is totally uncalled for... especially decking a soldier.. what the fuck haha! I'm suprised he didn't get his face broken right then and there..

Altho it is obvious that you did the right thing, I'm not sure what I would have done if I were in your shoes. Normally I'm pretty easy going, but stupid fuckers like that really grate on me.

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ForgottenKnight

Karma will catch up to those fuckers in some way, at a time in which they least expect it. You did the right thing by not starting a huge brawl.

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Carno

I'm still trying to figure out why the dude and his little brother didn't get thrashed....

The little brother punched you twice, for no reason, and nothing happened to him?

Then the older brother punched you for no reason, then punched another guy for no reason and nothing happened to him?

None of yall did anything about it, not even make the guy leave?? There are times when defending yourself is okay, and that was one of those times....

But how come you didn't even kick them out???

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H12

There were too many mutual friends of ours who would have sided with the two assholes, thus errupting into a huge brawl instead of having the two pricks ejected.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

crow_daw

Yes, I rather thought that I thoroughly explained this earlier. It would not have been wise to try to kick them out. With the state they were in, it would have caused nothing more than a huge fight, a brawl, as H12 and myself have put it. Someone would have been hurt, and I will always stand by our decision to not pursue it. I think what we did was the best thing to do, and nothing any of you say will change my opinion.

We're not going to have to deal with these assholes anymore. So let's let bygones be bygones.

Everything he has said is true. He's a very responsible drinker, and he very seldomly drinks period. It was the man's nineteenth birthday for God's sake.

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Carno

I must have missed that then, I didn't realize they were mostly mutual friends.

I'm kind of a hot head, I don't things would have turned out that well if I was in your shoes..

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Prince

I think lousy upbringing definitely is one big reason there are so many dickwads around.

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iamnormal

If there wasn't assholes you would be full of shit.

Merlocke

you did the right things, made the right decisions, made the most out of what was apparently destined to be a shitty night.

Fighting back at that point would've started something much bigger. It takes a big man to turn the other cheek and walk the other way.

I believe in karma - so sometime they'll get theirs. Myself and most of my friends are martial artists - so we know how much damage can be done just from a little fight. Even one decent punch - landing just right can kill someone. It's always better to play the safer route. Sucks about it landing on your birthday though.

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H12

I, too, know about how much damage a strike can do, though I've never taken any defense classes or anything. I don't want to go into detail, so please don't ask, but last year I cost a man a testicle before because I didn't want to fight and tried to make it end as quick as I could...and whaddya know, the guy was drunk when it happened, too. Anyways, it made a life-long enemy that I occasionally have to worry about. Nothing good happens from fighting, even if you're the one who dishes out the pain.

Beer and many people just don't mix.

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--Aristotle

The Phenomenon

Ok so apart from the hypocrisy in that, WHY DRINK? Why? So you think the law is BS as far as that is concerned, fine. But there is a reason why that law exists.

Why do you have to rink even on special occasions? Life is much more fun without alcohol. TRUST ME.

I am glad that you are responsible in your use of alcohol, thats very important, but why bother using something that you get nothing out of (unless you actually enjoy drinking) but that you have to behave responsibly for afterwards, with chances of irresponsible behaviour going up with every drop you drink? Alcohol is not worth it. And alcohol destroys lives, it really does, its not just some bullshit people like to throw around in Life Orientation class. I know way too many alcoholics.

I rarely drink, and if I do its Liquer like Amarula, Frangelica that I drink some of or mix with other things cause it tastes damn good. And I don't get drunk off of it. The reason why you had beer at that party was so that people can get drunk. Thats it. And I do not get why that is necessary.

Zar

Probably 'cause people like getting drunk, especially at parties?

The Phenomenon

I know and I don't see why that is necessary.

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MaGlC_MaN

that's like...... your opinion, man.

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Bye.

sonikeko

Folks, If I've learned ANYTHING in 4 years of college, it's that drama and alcohol come hand-in-hand. Sometimes, even the calmest people, have to kick the shit out of some ashole who thinks he's big shit. That big dude is lucky as hell that two or three of you didn't just jump him and beat the shit out of him. He's even luckier that the Army dude didn't just haul-off and kick his ass right then and there. People are just assholes when they have too much to drink. I beat the hell out of my own roommate one night cause he was so out of line that he eventually spit in my face. Needless to say that everyone has their limits. Props to you guys for being the bigger men, but as I said earlier, some people just have it comming.

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The Phenomenon

By the looks of it if they jumped him his group of friends would have basically killed them.

__________________
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

H12

I know a bunch of borderline-alcoholics too, and they're known as my mom's side of the family (note: I love them, not just ripping into them)...and I know better than to let that happen. Again, I only drink at special occasions, and it's because it IS fun at times. If there's absolutely nothing special 'bout the night, I can't make myself drink hardly if I tried...and that's great. I know a friend who likes to smoke pot, but will only allow himself to do it once every three months so he can keep himself straight. When somebody does something that rarely and responsibly, they already know the dangers of what you'd like to warn them about.

I appreciate your concern, it's just for a lost cause because our opinions on its enjoyment is different and I am already very muchso more responsible than many.

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--Aristotle

The Phenomenon

Well then lets agree to disagree then

__________________
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Carno

Phenomenom,

getting drunk is fun. Having a few beers with some buddies is one of the best ways I could spend my night. You may think that getting drunk is not fun, but you're not me, and I'm not you. You can't tell me that I don't have fun when I drink with friends.

[QUOTE]but why bother using something that you get nothing out of (unless you actually enjoy drinking)[/QUTOE]

You get nothing out of it. Millions of people do.

Maybe you have a problem where you can't control yourself when you drink. I don't know. But I drink responsibly and I do not go out of control when I drink. I don't drink so much that I don't remember the previous night when I wake up, but I control how much I drink, just enough to have a good time. Or, a better time, I should say. I could have fun at a party if I was sober, but I have more fun when I'm drunk. Drinking might not be worth it to you, but it is to me, because I can handle myself responsibly.

That is a VERY subjective statement right there. Not everyone is the same, not everyone thinks the way you do, and not everyone believes what you believe.

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The Phenomenon

I can control myself when I drink, I have yet to cause or even be involved in an incident.

I don't consider unable to stand up straight after a night of heavy drinking fun. Social drinking, as in a few beers is fine with me. How having the room spin and your inhibitions on the floor makes anything more fun is well beyond my understanding.

__________________
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Carno

Being drunk does not mean being too wasted to remember what happened the next day.

I get drunk all the time and can still keep my balance and remember things the next day. You are talking about getting shitfaced.

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Prince

I've to largely agree with The Phenomenon. Being drunk is a poisonous state for the brain, not a normal part of its functionality.

People who get hurt while voluntarily intoxicated get no sympathy from me. But that's just my subjective, stupid opinion.

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Who is John Galt?

Averett

How long did it take for you boys to get out the measuring sticks?

Seems that's what it was about... "Mine is bigger than yours"

Silly boys

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crow_daw

I hope you're not referring to H12. At the point when the situation was instigated, he had barely begun to drink, and was no where near intoxication. He may have gotten a little tipsy before the night was over, but I would put anything on the fact that he never got drunk that night. It was the asshole's fault, completely and totally. Now HE was drunk. H12 did nothing at all to deserve what happened and in no way brought it upon himself.

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H12

So, had the exact same thing happened when I was sober, I would recieve your full sympathy? It's not like I was hit because I was drunk, ya know...I was hit because they were drunk.

__________________
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--Aristotle

The Phenomenon

But mine IS bigger AND better!!!

Prince

No, no, I'm not referring to him; I read the whole account above and I can tell he wasn't instigating it. I was just making an off remark in association with my support for what The Phenomenon was talking about - which was a tad sidetracked.

I know. And you do get all the sympathy in the world from me, for what it's worth. You didn't do anything to bring it upon yourself. My remark, out of place in this thread as it might have been, was just about guys who get shitfaced and open their mouths at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I didn't mean you, and didn't mean to offend.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

H12

Ah, gotcha' now. It did seem like ya were aiming that at me at first; I wasn't offended, but I was confused at your logic, heh. It's all good.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

denim

I don't understand something. Maybe it's just me.

If some male asshole hits you, you kick 'em in the crotch. They go down. What's the problem? I must've missed something.

MaGlC_MaN

yea u missed something - the party. u weren't there

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Bye.

denim

I'm too old for that party.

SpikeQX99

Well, what we have here is a bunch of underage kiddies and some older ones drinking the night away, having a wonderful time....

Then...Bap! Two punches in the side of the head.

In spite of the punches to the head and all the other bullshit that occurs, no one kicks them out, and the one who is decked in the head doesn't even decide to just leave...

I wouldn't give a shit if it was my birthday party. I didn't come to get knocked in the head. I would have just said "fuck ya'll" and split. I can drink and have fun somewhere else.

I really enjoyed this topic just to see all the underagers in it trying to justify that drinking below the legal limit is OK because the did it "responsibly" and all that.

Fuck..... I must be so out of touch and I'm only 25.

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denim

I hear that. I didn't do the underage drinking either, but then, the age was 18 when I was there, it moved to 21 the year I was 20 so I was "grandfathered", and I still didn't drink.

Carno

I found it kinda surprising that everyone agreed that not hitting the guy back was the right thing.

While punching him back may not have been the "right thing" to do, it would definitely have been justified. Hell, the odds were great; he was drunk and you weren't. I'd have gone fists of fury on that dude.

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H12

The odds were not so great; I didn't know it then, but big brother was right behind me as this was happening. Plus, I've never fought when I had been drinking before, and I didn't know just how tough I'd be after afew. I wasn't drunk, but I had a good pace startin' when it happened.

If I was sober, 1 on 1, there is no doubt in my mind lil' brother would have been at my mercy. Big brother's a different story though.

I can quote myself from earlier saying that Phenomenon was right, that drinking at my age is illegal. If something happened to me solely because I was drunk, I would take full responsibility. What we're saying is that this incident was not our fault, and the drinking on our part is anything but to blame; the people who could legally drink were the ones who fucked up my birthday party, yet us "underagers" and "kiddies" who was doing perfectly fine are recieving the criticism. We were the responsible ones, but still we hear complaints about us breaking the law when Cup Thief and Corn Fed were doin' random acts of assault.

Have you ever downloaded music? Done 60 in a 55? I'm sure I can mention other crimes that can be basically harmless if done with care and in moderation, and drinking to celebrate two birthday boys from the same clique of almost-brothers, I feel, was a good time to drink. Illegal, yes, but we were responsible. I know, lemme go ahead and clear this up...that does NOT make it okay, but if we are going to drink, you can rest safely knowing that we're teenagers who know our limits, only do it in moderation, will not be on your roads, and will not be starting trouble, something two legal-drinkers can't do. Does the two-three year difference really make us bad people?

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--Aristotle

SpikeQX99

Ah jeezus, I'm not even gonna try... Can't talk sensical so I'm not gonna bother.

Have fun with your adventures man, hope the beer doesn't get flat.

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