warrrreagl

Okay, I know we've seen their commercials, but have you ever seen one that openly touts liberal ideas and philosophies in plain language?

Here's an example of Republican-style commercials, which I see dozens of times everyday:
"Joe Smith works hard for family values, maximum penalties for criminals, lower taxes, smaller government, the privatization of education, and the end of abortion-on-demand."

How about an opponent's commercial that would say something like this:
"Tom Jones works hard for gay rights, lesser sentences so that impoverished, disenfranchised minorites can be rehabilitated, higher taxes so that we all can share in our societal obligations, more government programs to reach out to every aspect of our society, more funding for our embattled schools and teachers, and the right of a woman to control her own body."

If these are the things that democrats fight for, why don't the candidates advertise it? Do they believe that these ideals go against the middle-class mainstream and it would be a PR nightmare to admit it? Or is this agenda something that we're all supposed to KNOW that Democrats stand for without having to say it?

And just for the record, I DO NOT plan on voting Republican in November, so don't read more into this thread than exists.

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sailor

I was thinking the same thing the other day. Im not quite sure why they do it... Part of it (for me, anyways), it that I live in a heavily Republican state, and therefore, most of the candidates are Republican. I dont think I have even seen an ad for a Democrat here. Sounds like you do too (judging by your location as "land of cotton")--I suspect thats a large part of it.

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--Plato

Polyphobic

Probably since conservatives have made "liberal" a dirty word and us "liberals" don't fight back. Take a look at one of Bush's campaign ads. "blah blah blah says that Kerry is the most liberal member in the Senate". (I can't remember what paper they quoted). Since when is being liberal a bad thing?

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<--The great infidel-->

MSD

Since the man in the teflon suit told us so.

Polyphobic

*looks around nervously*

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<--The great infidel-->

pinkie

Why would he do that? DuPont failed to report risks from a chemical used to make teflon coated suits. The guy in the suit was a liar.

Yakk

The NDP claim they will roll back tax cuts, and increase spending (paying for this by reducing debt repayments). They are openly pro-gay rights.

The Liberals say they will have small tax cuts, continue paying down the debt, and increase spending on health care by a large amount. They are pro-charter rights for gays as part of their platform.

The Conservatives say they will have a large tax cut, continue paying down the debt, and increase spending on health care and the military by a large amount. They believe in free votes on social issues like gay rights and abortion, and are open to overriding the charter if nessicary.

The Greens say they will change the tax structure so it discourages environmentally unfriendly acts, and encourages friendly acts. They are neutral on actual taxation levels.

The Bloc say they will reduce federal power and increase provincial (well, at least their province). They are in favour of Canada dissolving.

Popular vote:
Liberals (mid 30s)
Conservative (high 20s low 30s)
NDP
Bloc
Green (3%-5%)

Seats: (aka Members of Congress)
Liberals
Conservative
Bloc
NDP
Green (0)

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Charlatan

...and Americans and Canadians are the same.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ubertuber

Since they started trying to rile the conservatives up so they'll go and vote...

The candidates say the same things, all the while meaning different things. Who in their right mind would run as anti-family values? You can only frame your point of view in terms of positive words, so we have pro-life and pro-choice. What if they called themselves anti-choice or pro-death? No one would like them...

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Cynthetiq

that's right.. it's all about marketing the right words...

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kutulu

Maybe it's just me but it seems like Bush ads this season have been very light on actual content about Bush and heavy on how bad Kerry is.

Kerry ads in AZ have been much more about the issues that Bush ads.

Bentley Little

The reason the liberals don't say what they stand for has nothing to do with people knowing what they stand for without them saying. Rather, they know they are for things like higher taxes, bigger govt., more social programs, less freedoms, etc.

All politicians want to remain in office, which therefore undercuts the whole point of standing for anything. But most people don't come out and say, "Hey I want to pay more taxes, have less freedom, etc." So the liberals tout themselves as activists for the people, or anti-radical-religious-republicans who will eat you. Because if they came out and said, "I am going to raise your taxes so you can have less money and I can put it in my pocket and stay in office and promote more programs to shell out your hard-earned money to losers who join gangs and do drugs who can;t get a job", no one would vote for them!

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That is my 2 cents.

Polyphobic

Ah, more generalizations about liberals.
Not all of us support all of these supposed liberal ideals. Anyhow, I have no desire to get into a political discussion.

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<--The great infidel-->

Bentley Little

Whether or not you want to call them generalizations, liberals have to have a base philosophy, they have to be classified somehow, they have their general beliefs. Just like republicans have a general philosophy. That is how the world works.

If you don't support these ideals, then why vote liberal, because you are anti-bush? or anti-conservative? is what you have heard all based on the media (which is liberally biased...and don't tell me it is not).

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That is my 2 cents.

ubertuber

I think that is natural. I mean, the media seems to portray that Kerry's chance of winning hinges not on how good he is, but how bad Bush is... You know, vote for Kerry because he's better than the alternative. Bush's guys may also believe this, so they want to say "you don't want that alternative".

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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

ratbastid

It might just be me, or the region of the world I live in... Or the crowd I run in... but liberals tend to be better educated than conservatives.

I'm not talking about politicos or commentators here, I'm talking the party bases. Rural, less-educated folks tend to be conservative. College-town kids and their professors tend to be liberal. There are exceptions of course, and yes those are stereotypes, thank you very much.

If you look at the language used in those examples, I'd say they squarely target their demographic in terms of education.

Bentley Little

Wow! How can you make such an ignorant statement! Okay, I will lower myself to your level and say that most liberals are poor minority inner city residents because that is who the liberals cater to. You expect me to believe the tripe that flows from your mouth, but that is a sickening and disenfranchising statement for all liberals and those who would agree with ratbastid should sit down and reconsider their political offiliations.

Disgusting broad generalization. Sick.

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That is my 2 cents.

ubertuber

Hey, come on now - ratbastid was polite with his comments, and you... weren't. Not to mention, ratbastid said that rural uneducated people tend to be conservative, not that conservatives tend to be rural uneducated people. There is a difference. Also, no one is disenfranchised by what he said.

I'm not surprised that more educated people (meaning those that hang around college professors) seem more liberal - in my personal experience (not speaking for anyone else or claiming universal truth) higher education is full of outspoken liberals. But, like ratbastid's comment, this is just my observation and is a well known stereotype, so there are obviously exceptions.

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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

ratbastid

I really tried hard to have my comments NOT be flameworthy. I suspect that you read what you wanted to read, rather than what I wrote. Which is why I've NEVER ONCE even stuck my head into Tilted Politics.

Nonetheless, I apologize for any offense.

I guess my point is... Why would the republican ads use 5-cent words and the democrat ads use 39-cent words? Who are they each catering to? With the sort of research and expertise they've got building those commercials, I guarantee you it's not by mistake.

shakran

Which, I take it is why Newt Gingrich left his dying wife in exchange for a pretty young thing, why Nixon never went to jail, why the middle class shoulders the tax burden for the rich, why the military expanded more under Reagan than any democrat, etc etc etc.

In other words, you can advertise with plain speak about what your "goals" are all you want but I'm far more impressed when you actually DO something to achieve them.

cosmoknight

One thing I noted about Kerry's ads locally is the lack of plans. He promotes we should work more with our allies but doesn't say how? Brings up class warfare again by dropping hints life could be better if we stuck it to the rich yet again. Social Security needs saved but doesn't mention how or why they added it to the general funds in the first place. Brings up health care and its costs but seems to be dancing around why they are going up.

Kerry has to run on ads painting the bleak picture of America all the while saying he can do better. Personally I can't wait for the debates coming up to hear how.

kutulu

They are both complicated issues and I don't think the general voter would really understand. Remember, half of America has below average intelligence...

It's not as if Bush or any other politicians ever talk in detail about how they are going to implement their plans. Bush's ads are either mostly Kerry bashing (I live in a swing state) or fluff ads that show vid clips with some chic saying inspiring things about him.

ubertuber

That's really great kutulu - funny, but true... All politicians claim to have plans during election times. That really means they have goals, not ways of reaching them. The hard part (like figuring out what supporting schools means, or how you will pay for it) comes after you are elected. That's why so many politicians don't keep campaign promises - they never had a clear idea of what the promise was or how they would keep it in the first place.

I always take grand statements like "candidate x will improve America's foriegn policy" with a grain of salt.

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Fallon

Just wanted to point this out because you did it before hand, yet when it went the other way, you commented such as you did.

Bentley Little

I did get off-thread somewhat, but I apologize to ratbastid, but you have to expect that kind of response even if your aim is not to be flameworthy. In such a way you basically called most conservatives hicks and farmers and most liberals university professors, even if you did say that was a stereotype. That makes my point. You were stating a stereotype, and, basing that off of where you live. You have to know that this is not true. You say there are exceptions, but that means that what you say is true, that liberals are educated and conservatives are not. And when I pointed out what I said about poor inner city minorities voting liberal it was to show the ignorance in ratbastid's original stereotypical statement, fallon.

We are getting off the thread here and I apologize for that. Sorry I won't be able to keep up the posts to this one, but I am off to Cancun tomorrow for my honeymoon.

No hard feelings ratbastid?

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That is my 2 cents.

Polyphobic

I know I'm going to regret this. I hate online discussions of politics or religion.
Anyhow, here goes.
Anyone who supports 100% of their party's supposed base beliefs simply for the fact that they are affiliated with that party is a fool (IN MY OPINION). It is quite common for conservatives to have a few liberal ideals and vice versa. In my view the liberal or conservative tags should be based off of percentages not all or nothings. For me I have roughly a 90/10 split in liberal versus conservative values. Does this make me a liberal? Yes, I think it does. Does this mean that I support every single liberal value? No it doesn't. This thinking is partially responsible for our extremely polarized nation.
In the end what really irritates me are random poorly thought out attacks on liberalism.

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<--The great infidel-->

unoaman

I would like to take this opportunity to tell "Bently Little" that upon return from his honeymoon in Cancun, he will slowly but surely begin the process of learning who really runs things in America. It ain't the liberals, it ain't the conservatives Bently...it's the wives...

Bentley Little

TOUCHÉ

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That is my 2 cents.

Xell101

It seems as though they use their demeanors to give the impresison they are smarter than the average bear, and to wiggle that notion into your fundamental assumptions, if it isn't about the people themselves, then something about the Liberal Left is intellectually superior or something to that effect.

Zeld2.0

Great post Polyphobic!

Through research, generally speaking, it is true that those that have gone through more education (masters, doctorates) will be MORE liberal not *A* liberal.

There is a very key and distinct difference. A person can be extremely conservative but research and polling has shown that through higher education (not just college but post-graduate), their tendencies will be more liberal.

This is partially why there is the new liberal group based upon higher-paying jobs requiring higher education that was once the staple of the conservative group.

The possible reason? It often deals with education - the fact is simple that liberal is defined as being open to change and willing to accept and create change. Conservative is defined as wanting to preserve the status quo and is resistant to change.

Higher education usually requires one to carry a more open mind and more willingness to explore new ideas and change the status quo. And take science and technology jobs - if you want to create advances in thsoe areas, you will probably be naturally willing to alter the current mold.

Hence, it will tend to make you more liberal, not *a* liberal.

This is in no way a slam in anyway to any group. Higher education making one more liberal doesnt mean lower education makes you a conservative.

Bentley Little

Also a good point Zeld. When you define the words "liberal" and "conservative", you are correct. Although in our society today, no one really goes by that terminology. A dumbing down of America can be blamed for that (but the cause of that is a whole other thread). So, yes I am a liberal-minded person in that I am willing to change, to see other options, to question, etc. I do not believe that because something is the way it is or has been that way should dictate its future. But when it comes to politics, I lean towards conservatism in economics (money), judicial, executive and legislative issues; and liberal when it comes to social issues. In essence, this is more of a libertarian ideal, meaning less government, more freedom.

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That is my 2 cents.

Zeld2.0

Welcome on board then Bentley you'll find many other libertarians around too... ironically the only difference between them is what they view as economic vs. social issues (e.g. schools)

Bentley Little

Glad to be on board.

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That is my 2 cents.

Astrocloud

It's so funny that the only platform that so called conservatives can seem to run on is Liberal bashing. Here's a good Liberal commercial:

Arsenic7

I personally hate how neither Bush nor Kerry nor any of their supporters have mentioned the push for a gay marriage amendment despite the fact that it will be one of the most important issues in the upcoming election. I understand why they don't....they think by mentioning more middleground topics and ignoring those that reveal their right or left wing standing they can appeal to swing voters....it still seems retarded to me that we have a system that promotes this sort of crap, though.

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orphen

On the observation
"College-town kids and their professors tend to be liberal. There are exceptions of course, and yes those are stereotypes, thank you very much."
I personally believe this is mostly due to the fundemental notion of eduction. At a college level, the "liberal arts" education requires student to be outspoken and liberal in their belief and, as modern philosophy and intellectual generally emphasizes individualism, an educational enviroment often breed perhaps you would call "idealistic" belief of men's general goodness. thus results in, i believe, a dislike toward capatalism. as modern conservatism is very much capatalistic, the educators and the 'being educated" alike are defined as liberal in believing non capatalistic "ideals":