U.S. in new armor. Follow-up to John Falcons thread about new uniforms

[DelayedReaction]

Originally posted by Great_White
I didnt read it all so hopefully this wasnt covered.

Blacks not that usefull camoflauge wise. Ive never understood why they use an an unatural color like that for anything. Even in urban enviornments pure black doesnt occour. Even on the darkest night, you stick someone out there in all black and they'll stick out a ton. When i look outside the darkest thing i see is leaves on a tree, and thats no where near black. Imagine somone walking down a dirt trail with that on...

True shadows are far darker than black can ever get. The reason people use black is because of the "impressive badass" look it provides, and because it doesn't stand out when used with other equipment. From what I understand the most effective nighttime camo pattern (granted this was just from a Tom Clancy novel) is a dark green grid pattern, with some of the grid squares filled in. Something like this:



Then again I could easily be wrong.

[timalkin]

Originally posted by DelayedReaction
They're wearing the "Executive" line of personal protection. It consists of the guys in front of them, and a distance of about 3000 miles between them and the threat.

That's freakin hilarious.

[Nachimir]

The black looks more like riot gear, in which case the reflec visor would fit right in.

[nothingx]

Dont like that helmet either, the huge mouth peice scares me.

There's probably so much technology packed in there it needs to stick out like that. Notice the camera on the side of his head?

[KWSN]

Originally posted by MooseMan3000
Eh, forgot to include this before. So how exactly does this targeting system distinguish "enemies" from "other guys in robes with guns?"

If it only lets you fire at guys with uniforms on, what about that weirdo militia? I dunno, that sounds pretty sketchy to me.

I figure it ALLOWS you to fire at other people who may be a threat, but makes it so you can easily distinguish between a sure enemy and a possible one.

[GakFace]

Originally posted by MooseMan3000
Eh, forgot to include this before. So how exactly does this targeting system distinguish "enemies" from "other guys in robes with guns?"

If it only lets you fire at guys with uniforms on, what about that weirdo militia? I dunno, that sounds pretty sketchy to me.

Yeah I dunno, but the idea that you cannot fire on your own Team would be pretty cool. But hopefully its like what KWSN said, as otherwise... they would kill people and steal the suit.. and fight with it... of course if they didn't use the gun.. it would stand out and let us fire on them.. if they used the gun, they'd have to punch us.... Guess we should carry a sword,

[pocon1]

The guy on the left has only one shoulder pad on. Is this to show versatility, or is one used to ram open doors? Also, it looks like a camera on the side of the head. Reminds me of Aliens, the marines.

[ultra_agent9]

Is that a cosplay convention? What game are those characters from?

[cosmoknight]

New armor is just around the corner as we have less soldiers they will nedd to be better protected. I no longer have the link but I saved the article about a spray on polymer that upgrades everything from normal clothing to Hummers.

Services test spray-on vehicle armor
Polymer-coated steel cheaper, lighter than ‘up-armoring’ with plates

By William Matthews
Special to the Times

While the Army urges Humvee makers to speed up production lines and turn out more up-armored versions, to send to Iraq, the Navy has discovered that it might be possible to protect existing vehicles with a spray-on polymer armor that’s lighter, cheaper, and — maybe — as tough as steel.

The Office of Naval Research has achieved promising results with spray-on armor applied to Marine Corps Humvees, Rear Adm. Jay Cohen, the chief of naval research, told a House subcommittee in March.

Using photos of Humvees hit by mine blasts, and a section of polymer-coated steel, Cohen demonstrated how the armor, sprayed on the bottom of the vehicles, could protect troops riding inside against explosions and shrapnel.

The Marine Corps Warfighting Lab is testing the polymer armor to determine whether to start spraying it on Humvees headed for Iraq and possibly on Humvees already there.

If a spray-on, plasticlike coating seems an unlikely substance to protect troops against mines, roadside bombs and small-arms fire, it struck Navy engineers that way too, at first. “We don’t understand 100 percent how it works,” admitted said Roshdy Barsoum, a program officer in the ship, hull, mechanical and electrical systems science and technology division of the Office of Naval Research

“We have a panel trying to understand how it works.”

Traditional steel armor and newer ceramic armor “both have very high strength and toughness,” he said, so it is easy to understand how they repel bullets, shrapnel and the shock of explosions.

But with the polymer, “we’re talking about something more like rubber,” Barsoum said. Under ordinary circumstances, “people would have ignored it because it did not seem likely that it would be any good.”

The concept was actually born in the aftermath of the 1996 truck bombing at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. That’s when the Air Force began searching for novel ways to harden buildings against bomb blasts.

In late 1999 the Air Force began experimenting with “an elastomeric polymer” that is commonly used in the commercial world as a spray-on truck bed liner. Air Force Research Lab scientists reported that the truck bed polymer is “flexible, ductile and has modest strength.” But when sprayed on an unreinforced concrete block wall, the lowly liner proved to be remarkably effective at keeping the blocks from shattering when exposed to a bomb blast.

The Air Force’s goal was to find a way to keep chunks of concrete, brick and other construction material from fragmenting and killing people inside buildings. The spray-on coating is being applied to walls in the Pentagon, a defense official said.

The Air Force’s success with spray-on polymers caught the Navy’s attention in 2000 after a bomb on a small boat in the Yemeni port of Aden blew a 40-foot hole in the hull of the destroyer Cole, killing 17 sailors.

Cohen said he received an e-mail message from “a young man named Jake,” who suggested coating the interior of hulls with the blast-mitigating polymer to prevent bombs from rupturing steel hulls.

Navy researchers tried it and discovered that when the steel plating of a ship is protected by the coating, a hull struck by a bomb blast “might have gross deformation, but no penetration — and the kids on board, the sailors, would remain alive,” Cohen said.

The explosive-resistant coating came to mind again last fall when the Marine Corps was searching for a way to protect Humvees and trucks from the roadside explosives widely used in Iraq.

Tests at the Army’s Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland showed that the spray-on armor is effective, Cohen said. But the Marine Corps has not yet decided whether to use the armor on vehicles bound for Iraq, Barsoum said.

The polymer is made up of long chains of cross-linked molecules, he said. Although judged by the Air Force to be of “modest strength,” it works as armor because it makes steel behave very differently, Barsoum explained.

“Most materials break under very high loading rates.” That’s what happens to steel when exposed to the blast of an explosion. But the polymer coating “makes it not do that.” Essentially, the polymer armor spreads out the shock of the explosion and limits the damage, Barsoum said.

The polymer armor is made of polyurethane, polyurea or a mixture of the two, according to Air Force researchers. It can be sprayed on, brushed on, poured on, or fashioned into sheets and attached like steel armor, Barsoum said.

It can be applied to the inside or outside of Humvees and other vehicles to limit damage from bombs and prevent metal fragments from being blasted free and wounding or killing vehicle occupants, he said.

Compared with steel armor, the polymer armor is lightweight and cheap. It weighs about 5 pounds per square foot, Barsoum said — about an eighth the weight of steel. At a cost of about $20 to $30 a square foot, a Humvee could be armored for less than $10,000, he said. Current steel armor kits for Humvees cost much more, he said.

If sprayed or painted on, the polymer armor easily can be applied to existing vehicles. Troops in the field could do it with relative ease.

“These are not dangerous chemicals,” although a face mask and protective clothing would be required during spraying, Barsoum said.

The armor’s light weight fits the military’s requirement to remain light and agile, he said.

One potential drawback, however, is that spraying armor on Humvees and trucks could increase the temperature in the passenger compartment.

“We have to worry about the folks inside — if they can still operate,” a spokeswoman for the Office of Naval Research said.

William Matthews is a staff writer for Defense News.

:

2 unarmoured Range Rovers had identical charges detonated under the left front wheel. One Range Rover was unmodified while the other had the spray on armour applied.

The unmodified vehicle had a blast hole through the floor AND the roof with the front seat vapourised. The protected vehicle did not have penetration even of the floor with only minimal deformation.

[DelayedReaction]

Yeah, one of my friends is working on that form of protection. They honestly have no clue how it works.

I wonder why it's so expensive though? $20 per square foot is ridiculous.

[tropple]

$20 a square foot ridiculous?

Well, I guess that depends on whether you're pitching or catching...

If you're on the receiving end, it's a bargain ;-)

Do a price check on some Level IV armor (with side panels and chest shock plate. I think your jaw will drop....

[Church]

Can someone repost the armor picture? The link isn't working anymore and I really want to see these. lol

[MooseMan3000]

I can't find the original picture, but here:



That's one of the two uniforms that was pictured.

If you want to read a little more about it, check here:
http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/.../story001.html

[Fire]

does remind me of several movies- first, of course, aliens,
"dont worry ripley, me and my state of the art badasses will protect you"

and that line from two towers, where legolas says to the other elf "their armor is weak at the neck"

neat look- and if it saves even one guys life, then I am all for it.

[DelayedReaction]

When I say $20 per square foot is ridiculous, I'm talking about the expense of the material itself. A square foot is not a large portion of area when you're spraying, and I'm wondering what goes into this stuff to make it so expensive. Given that a truck bed is about 72 square feet (assuming a 4x8 bed with 2 foot walls), it would cost nearly $1500 to apply it. The material is supposedly identical to truck tarp liners made by companies such as Rhino. Given that the Rhino website says the cost of application is $500, I'm wondering what the difference in price is. Did they add something, increase the thickness of the material, or what?

By all means we should use this stuff to save our troops, particularly since it costs less than armor plating. But if they are the same material, why is it so much more expensive than the commercial version?