Well there RoboBlaster, why would we even bother putting differnt langueas on the voting ballets? Look at the topic here for a minute. The problem that needs to be addressed is not making things easier for people who can't or won't learn the local lingo. This is America, where we read, write, and speak english. Our consitution is in english, our leagle documents are in.....english, so, learn to speak english, or do not complanin that "your voice is not being heard". This is AMERICA, not Mexico, not France, not Germany or Spain. If I was going to move to any of those places, I would learn enough to be able to speak to people, why is it so wrong to expect the same from people comeing here? And I fell no sypathy for so call "opressed" people these days. Look at all of the celibration months we have. Blakc history, womans history, asian pacificer history. Why is it ok to be proud of your "heritage" unless you are a white male? Try and start a "United Caucasion College Fund" and see how long you make it before you are declaired a racist. All of these so people you are saying oppressed have more means at their disposal to "rise above" the situations they are in then I did, so if they don't, I blame no one but them.

Sure, most of us here speak English but you are right, this is "AMERICA." We are supposed to accept all the tired and waery and all that jazz. We are a collection of cultures, not one homogenous group. We have Black history month, so when is White History month? Every other month of the year. There doesn't need to be a United Caucasion College Fund because Whites already have the leg up.

Why U.S. citizen? What if they are not citizens? How bout we just go with the label "human". :)

You would hate Los Angeles. English is a second language here, Spanish is first. It drives me insane when people cant speak English, especially if they have been residents of the US for a long time. I cant even go to McDonalds and order something without repeating myself five times because they dont understand me. Im sick of calling 800 numbers and hearing "For English press 1", shouldnt it be "For spanish press 1"? For that matter there should be no option, it should say "learn to speak English, or hang up now". Sorry for the rant, it just annoys me sometimes.

Rich whites a leg up. The rest of us have to work for a living. And yes, we accept the "tired and waery and all that jazz", but there is also an understanding that they are comeing HERE to live the life that WE offer. As such, they should at least be able to speak and read the basics. They are the ones looking for a change, and in order to make the most of that chance, they should have to learn the basic skills needed to get along in this society. Other wise, all they are doing is being a drain on the system and slowly breaking it down.

Uh I don't know about you but Los Angeles is still English first... people speak Spanish or whatever other language, fine, but thats largely because there is a gigantic population of Spanish speakers so that is expected

As to the old stereotype of Asians... I'd caution you on saying they're all successful groups.. they're the few not the many.

And to be honest I doubt most immigrants are 3rd to 5th generations. Many many are new.

And do realize another thing - those who are given the CHANCE to come to America are usually the upper middle to upper class citizens of their countries. Most people can't move here. Hence those who come here already have some standing in terms of money and education. My mom's side of the family came here all with college educations already. They actually came here for graduate school. They were already rich in their former country, here they're fine in the upper middle class.

Don't try to confuse rich from making it here versus those who were rich before but have come here and have established it (though its nothing to take away from that achievement alone, which is admirable and tough)

As to the original topic... I suppose one can say those things. But at the same time, there are a ton of people that speak in slang and other ways all the time. I suppose its who you talk to and how you communicate that matters. I have little problem talking to people with accents and stuff if its an informal meeting with people I know. It really only seems weird when its a more improtant occasion.

Point 26 is perfect. The problem is not "black English", it's non-standard English. Though I personally feel that the second person plural of southern US English is an enhancement of the language, I would never use "y'all" in a formal business application - a resume or a report. (I'm a transplanted yankee.) I was thinking about this yesterday. There's a reason ebonics and "hillbilly southern" dialect speakers tend to be poor; those who learn how to speak standard English do not stay poor, or, at the least, find many more opportunities. It's not about race; it's about class.

Point 37 is too long. "... I will read books," is sufficient. Vocabulary books may be among them, but building a utilitarian, educated vocabulary comes from reading avidly and broadly, not memorizing lists of words. More to the point, if one commits to memory a list of words even with context aids, unless one sees them used naturally a number of times, one will soud the fool when using them. I have walked out of a meeting where a woman who was desparately trying to sound intelligent kept saying "sufficient enough". that';s the sign of someone who learned "sufficient" from a vocabulary book. It sounds impressive by itself, and means "enough", and by itself suffices.

Rdr4evr, as for your questions:

"Why U.S. citizen? What if they are not citizens? How bout we just go with the label "human"."

I feel a great debt of gratitude for the efforts and sacrifices made by generations of our forefather here. As for my native land - I am a US citizen.

I acknowledge myself as simply human - and more than that, simply another animal - more often than most but I do not see it as contradictory to one's affiliation with a native land or homeland. What I do object to is the notion of ethnic heritage. That is a tribalism that IMO is best left in the past. It is nothing more than a divisive and contentious way to define oneself. Tribalism never got anyone very far.

Bill Cosby has earned the right to say whatever he wants, wherever he wants, to whomever he wants.

To me, there are two types of people in this world. There are (1) people who will tell you want you want to hear and (2) the ones that tell you the simple truth.

Anyone elected or appointed to an office, 99% of the time, falls under category (1). Anyone who has worked hard will, also 99% of the time, fall under category (2).

Place Kwesi Mfume where you will but Bill, in my book, has always spoken the simple truth. Just for that alone, he gets my respect as a Man.

I'm African-American myself, and I wholeheartedly agree with his staements

bill cosby is now my hero for saying publicly what ive been saying for years... more power to that man, there is something seriously wrong with this country and the whole ghetto lifestyle these people think they have to have to make it by in life.. the education is here in america and yet noone wants to use it.. the first big mistake was putting ebonics in universities and allowing rap music to go as far as it did... where were the sensors on that one.. they were sure there when marilyn manson first came out but yet rap teaches younger black kids and some white kids that you have to be a hardcore thug to get what you want and to survive in this country, like its that bad.... and i tell you one thing about lower income blacks that ive seen is that those people know how to cheat the system and government... not all of them but a good percentage.. im not directing this all toward blacks there are whites and other races that do this also but it just seems like everywhere i go i get one black kid or adult tryin to get something for free.. like we (whites) and the rest of the races owe them something... always tryin to get free money and something for nothing... what they need to do is learn how to speak real english and dress normal and act normal and get an education then maybe society will start respecting them more and not laughing at them behind their backs... that ghetto thug mentality will only get you killed or put in jail then that just makes more stereotypes agaiinst blacks... why not clean up, get jobs, get an education, make soemthing of yourself.. move into a nice neighborhood, and act like normal human fr*ckin beings and conform to societies expectations and quit thinking that people owe you something cuz of something that happened 100 years ago that noone now had part of... let it go and be the best human beings you can be dont settle for less...

so more power to bill cosby for actually speaking the truth i know the truth hurts but it has to be said and he hit it right on target ... hes got my vote and support to try and make this world we live in just that little bit better

that is the best quote ever

Bill Cosby Elaborates on Criticisms of Blacks
 

Some of you may remember <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56220&highlight=Bill+Cosby">this thread</a>. Well, Mr. Cosby has spoken out again and elaborated a bit on his comments. Here's the story:

Again, I agree with him. His comments remind me a bit of some of the message in the Spike Lee movie, Do the Right Thing.

It's not to say there aren't people in the world that were simply dealt a crappy hand in life, but the fact is an unfortunate number of them today - blacks, whites, whatever - are too content in blaming their troubles on someone else.

He makes a lot of sense. We need to correct our problems starting with ourselfs and more importantly our childern. Teach them the values and the knowhow to become who they want to be.

A lot of that can be applied to any number of communities living in poverty with substandard housing and insufficient education. There *is* a lot to the notion that being born into an environment will determine who you are, but that does not excuse dropping out, drinking up and beating down your wife.

You've got a number of social programs and institutions to help poverty-stricken minorities who have ambition, and I think Mr. Cosby is just trying to remind people that they've actually got to have that ambition to work things out.

Interesting that Jesse Jackson seems to be suddenly agreeing with Dr. Cosby.

As the old 60's saying goes, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

:) brave and courageous man...

hopefully someone will hear his message besides rational people who don't need to hear it...

Yes. I'm interested in expanding his critique to include all aspects of popular culture. Very much of what he is saying applies to the way in which popular culture, especially popular music and film, influences young people in wholly destructive ways. Everyone needs to think about his statements in a color-blind way, as well - because it applies to all of us and this bad news of a culture we inhabit.

For a while I think the black community was seeking a unified voice. Jackson and Sharpton I believe are to partisan to be that voice but do you think the Bill Cosby could be it? Unlikely IMO but he is very educated and not beholden to a political campaigning like Sharpton and Jackson so I can't rule it out. The outrage I saw from his first speech seems to have been replaced by acceptance of his message which is a positive sign.

It takes a brave person to speak the bold truth. I have always admired Bill Cosby -- I do even more so now!

I am thrilled to see Cosby take this stand. Whereas the comments do apply in a colorblind sense, the black community has been particularly decimated by pop culture and the devaluing of education. It has also been victimized by race hustlers who feed off the feelings of victimhood. The more black leaders who speak out about education and individual responsibility, the better.

I love it.

I'm sick of white people acting like "white people." Of being the stereotype. I understand what he's saying. It's ruining an entire culture. Black History now involves more rappers and sports stars then doctors, inventers, and blacks that have really made a difference. It makes no sense. During Black History Month people throw parties to remember Tu-Pac. Martin Luthar King takes second place to a dead rapper. . .

I'm gonna stop ranting now.

This is a message the black community needed to hear from a respected black person. As true as it is, it wouldn't have been very well received coming from a white person.

Well true it applies to any cultural group some groups need to hear it more. It isn't a black/white thing, but a cultural thing. We all need to push for a culture of education and self worth.

Agreed. My point is, if you blame a certain group for your problems, you're not likely to want to listen to someone from that group when they tell you you're wrong.

With out a doubt. Mr. Cosby is a great person to be taking this plea to people.

Personal responsibility is the message. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the inner city black youth even know who Bill Cosby is, much less listen to his message. On the other hand, gangsta rappers are heroes.

Right message, wrong messenger.

What Cosby can accomplish is to influence other black leaders to carry on with his message. Jesse Jackson was sitting next to him during his recent statement. Jesse is a conman, AFAIC, but it wouldn't hurt to have him preaching responsibility instead of victimhood.

I can't truely speak to that, but I would think the opposite. I truely don't know so I should probably shut up. :)

This is a message that everyone needs to hear. Black,white, whatever. Our whole society is going down the shitter because everyone's the victim now. Nothing is sacred. I'm not sure how this problem can be fixed, but I think Bill's got a really good point. The buck stops here. No one takes responsibility for their actions anymore and it's fragmenting our communities.

I've got nothing but respect for Mr. Cosby so I think it kicks serious ass that he's said this. And that he's backing up what he said.

I don't know much about Mr. Cosby or have seen any of his work, but people always tell me that he's smart. Now I see why....

Check out some of his stand up. Well worth it.

You mean you never watched Fat Albert?

The Cosby show?

Jello pudding commercials?

Mmmmm, pudding pops.

The only thing that sets this apart from what Chris Rock said in 1999 in his Bigger and Blacker show is that Bill Cosby has a PhD. in Education. Other than that, Chris Rock was saying the same damned things 5 years ago--and people laughed. Gives a new thought to the "Consider the Source" statement.

Rat: If you're talking about the "I love black people, but I hate..." bit, I think the key difference is that Chris Rock was a comedian speaking in the context of comedy, trying to incite people to laugh. Bill Cosby happens to be a comedian, but was saying what Chris Rock said in the context of cultural insipiration. The fact that Cosby has a PhD does help, but Chris Rock could have set a straight face, said the same thing and gotten at least a somewhat similar reaction of making people stop and think.

Interesting statements he's made.
Hopefully people take it to heart, and make a concerted effort to better themselves and their situations.

Time will tell.

I have great hope that someday, humanity will pull it's head out of it's ass, and figure out that we are in trouble and need an adjustment.

It starts with each one of us. Hopefully we all catch on soon.

Being a black man myself, I completely agree with Dr. Cosby. I'm not too sure anymore if some people in the black community are just content with bitching and complaining for the rest of their lives without standing up and making something happen for themselves. I myself have never expected anybody to give me anything and knowing this, I knew that I would have to work my ass off to get to where I wanted to be.

I may get flamed for saying this, but in my 27 years on the planet, I have done a lot of growing up recently and I have come to realize that rap music is damaging to our community. Like TOK said, having parties to remember Tu-Pac instead of remembering Dr. King during black history month!?! I'm sorry, but that is just plain fucking pathetic. Until we stop idolizing the rap stars that make it seem "hip" to be poor and live in the projects in the ghetto, and the younger generation begins to realize that it's their responsibility to make something of themselves, the black community will be going nowhere.

On the issue of worshipping rappers, I think this country is following a sad trend of worshipping entertainers. Entertainers may work from what they have experienced and felt but they are just that- entertainers.

Agreed. And I never understood those magazine articles like People's "100 sexiest people." WTF!?! Like the entire population of sexy people in the world all live and work in Hollywood. I could give a rat's ass who wore what to (insert celebrity ass kissing event here) event this week.

I'm done ranting now.

No, no and no....I didn't think it was funny, since it's from the 70s and 80s..I was young and dumb..now I know better...:

Cosby Does More Than His Share
 

Mr. Cosby has been busy. He's been discussed in two previous threads...

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=56220

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=61162

I think it's great that he's trying very hard to be a positive role model and influence. A shame that it's like a small drop of freshwater in the oceans, but it's at least a start.

link

It's great that he's putting his money where his mouth is.

You gotta admire Bill Cosby.:D

This is one of those men that truly are a role model.

Bill Cosby is the greatest black man to come along since MLK Jr.

I just went to the NPR website and there's a good link of him talking about his comments...

clickon on the link:

Talk of the Nation audio
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3194001

Lightning strikes two guys, in a good way
 

Link

I saw this in The Republican, my local paper, today, and thought it was impressive. The story is local, so it doesn't have an "AP" line here, but it does on CNN.com. I guess they agree that it's impressive.

Anyway, it looks like Mr. Cosby puts his money where his mouth is, not that that was in question.

I think that is great some people still get it

It's nice to see Cosby is finally rebuilding his reputation. It's also nice to see good things happen to good people.

ditto to all of the comments above.

What do you mean, bermuDa? Rebuilding his rep? What happened to it?

i have a lot of respect for bill cosby.

I'm starting to think that you may be right. I like his style of not sugar-coating anything, and trying to make a difference.

Indeed, he just plainly says it and he's doing something helpful to boot, hopefully he'll serve as an example and others will follow in suit.

Bill Cosby is definitely a true black leader and should be a hero of everyone.

I think this is great, & while he is talking about black people I think it applies to everyone. The youth of America is pathetic. We have a lot of work to do. We need to put more money and thought into our childrens education, and when i say "our" i mean all children. You will have to live with them in the same community. so wouldnt you like to see them grow up to be productive members? People need to work together.... bleh b4 i get off on a rant ill just say what i came here to say....

Im glad to see that someone is taking a stand who actually has the power and respect from others to get something done.

Kudos Bill Cosby

COSBY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!

That I could get behind.

You know, I won't be quick to throw around my support, but that's pretty intriguing to think about. Won't happen - and that's probably a good thing at this point - but he is a very educated person and I respect a lot of his thoughts on many subjects.

I don't know that he has what it takes to be president though, but I could certainly see him in state or even national senate.

I expect he's too smart to want to run. I think we should draft him.

I just heard an excerpt from his actual speech:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv.../052304-1s.htm

Bill is da man. And do not forget that his son was killed by the very people he is talking about.

Only reading the first half of this thread, some of you people seem to have mis-understood Cosby...He wasn't saying that all blacks speak poor english, and thus are poor. He was saying that poor blacks have only themselves to blame because they don't bother to get a proper Education.

The same can be said for poor whites, asians, hispanics..whatever....but because Cosby is black, he choose the audience with which he would have the most impact.

So please, spare us your stories of "theres these 3 stupid blacks down the hall from me@!" which just come off as racist.

Hahaha...

actually this thread is merged from 3 different Bill Cosby Threads... i was about to make a 4th but then thought it would be better to merge into Super Cosby Thread...

I think the thing that is pissing most of the people off is that it is true. And nothing hurts like the truth.

GO COSBY!

Excellent observation!

Go Bill!

I agree with those who say Bill is right on the money! We need more people like him to speak up and spill the truth.

And Boo, classic! This could become some national craze thing if you make it so. I would love to see that! Like the others have said, brilliant! If you choose to be stupid, then you will succeed.