Bill Cosby: Blacks can't speak English
 

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Bill Cosby: Blacks can't speak English
NAACP leaders stunned by remarks of prominent comedian
Posted: May 20, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

In the presence of NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and other African-American leaders, comedian Bill Cosby took aim at blacks who don't take responsibility for their economic status, blame police for incarcerations and teach their kids poor speaking habits.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/cosby.jpg
Bill Cosby

Cosby made his remarks at a Constitution Hall event in Washington Monday night commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision that paved the way for integrated schools, reported Richard Leiby in his Reliable Source column for the Washington Post.

Leiby said Cosby's remarks were met with "astonishment, laughter and applause."

When Cosby finally concluded, Leiby said, Mfume, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking "stone-faced."

Shaw told the crowd most people on welfare are not African American. He insisted many of the problems his organization addresses among blacks are not self-inflicted.

Cosby said, according to Leiby: "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.'

He added: "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

The Post said Cosby also targeted imprisoned blacks.

"These are not political criminals," he said. "These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"
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wow. those are some pretty charged statements. i have heard in the past though that Bill Cosby is a rather conservative person, so his remarks don't suprise me that much. but to say that stuff at a NAACP event is pretty tactless.

I disagree. He was in the right place and talking to the people who mattered the most.

All I have to say is.....RIGHT FUCKIN' ON BILL!! I'm tired of people, of any color, bitching about being "kept down by the man" or some such bullshit, then going home and getting stoned instead of getting a job or an education.

Mr. Cosby is dead on. I also subscribe the the same philosophies as Larry Elder.

to quote LARRY ELDER the Sage from South Central:

http://www.larryelder.com/photos/ima...ronkite%20.jpg

http://www.larryelder.com

Personal Pledge 32
by Larry Elder

1. There is no excuse for lack of effort.
2. Although I may be unhappy with my circumstances, and although racism and sexism and other "isms" exist, I know that things are better now than ever, and the future is even brighter.
3. While I may be unhappy with my circumstances, I have the power to change and improve my life. I refuse to be a victim.
4. Others may have been blessed with more money, better connections, a better home environment, and even better looks, but I can succeed through hard work, perseverance, and education.
5. I may be a product of a single- or no-parent household, but I will not hold anyone responsible for my present, or allow anyone to interfere with my future. Others succeed under conditions far worse than mine.
6. Some schools and teachers are better than others, but my level of effort, dedication, curiosity, and willingness to grow determine what I learn.
7. Ambition is the key to growth.
8. I will set apart some time each day to think about where I want to go, and how I intend to get there. A goal without a plan is just a wish.
9. "Luck" is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
10. If suitable role models are not nearby, I will seek them out.
11. A role model is someone who, through hard work and a positive outlook, has achieved.
12. A role model may be a parent, relative, friend, church member, judge, doctor, attorney, businessperson, or someone I've read about in the newspaper or seen on the local news.
13. I will contact role models and seek their advice, guidance, and counsel. People remember when they were my age and are eager to help.
14. I will seek out recommended magazines, articles, books, biographies, videos, and motivational and how-to books, and use them for education and motivation.
15. The light is always green. You cannot go full speed with one foot on the brake.
16. I am always "in school," and I will not waste my summer by failing to read about and speak to people who can inspire me.
17. I will avoid friendship with people who do not share my goals and commitments. Nonsupportive relationships waste time and energy.
18. I will not seek immediate results, as I understand life is a journey and not a destination.
19. I will read a newspaper each day.
20. I will entertain myself in ways that challenge and expand my mind. As someone said, a mind once expanded never returns to its original size.
21. I will pay attention to my diet and overall fitness, as they are the keys to a healthy and productive body and an enthusiastic mind.
22. Drugs are stupid. People who believe in drugs don't believe in themselves.
23. I understand that jobs of the future require more preparation and training than ever, and I am determined to obtain the necessary background.
24. A well-rounded, competent student studies math and science.
25. People are not born "deficient in mathematical ability." Through hard work and dedication, the subject can be mastered.
26. It is essential that I learn to speak and write standard English. This is not "acting white," but acting smart.
27. A strong vocabulary is the key to communication, and I will read books on vocabulary enrichment.
28. I expect sometimes to be teased, even ridiculed. This will not stop me; it will only make me stronger and more determined.
29. I control my body and will not create a child until I am spiritually, psychologically, educationally, and financially capable of assuming this awesome responsibility.
30. Life is difficult. I expect setbacks and will learn from them. Struggle creates strength.
31. Every day is precious, and one without growth is squandered.
32. There is only one me, and I'm it!

Heh. Cynthetiq actually posted something I don't disagree with.

Or any other excuse. We all make choices. If you choose to be stupid, then you will succeed.

we agree with more often than you think :)

Nice quote. That's bumper sticker material right there! :thumbsup:

Consider that line stolen. Fucking brillent.

made me look up the history of ebonics...

http://www.campusprogram.com/referen...b/ebonics.html

quite interesting, I did not know that it was written about as far back as the 70s

speaking english well will get you far.

at least you didn't say good :)

yeah, they should learn english if they want to get a job or anything but ebonics is their own languge so they have the right to speak it.

The other black leaders who were "stone faced" didn't have the balls to speak the truth. I'm glad Mr. Cosby, through his bluntness, said this.

Hey Hey Hey, Bill is all right.

"Hey, Hey, Hey!"

“Well-ba, Bill's-ba got-ba a-ba point-ba."

http://www.bugkid.com/fatalbert/pictures/004.jpg

He is right and he said it in the right place and time. Those of the blacks and any other race or culture who blame someone else for their problems but don't make an effort to change their problems bring down their whole race and culture and hold back the struggle against racism. Racism is wrong but using it as an excuse for continued racial stereotypical behavior is completely irresponsible.

ebonics is not a language, it's a perversion of English. People have the right to speak any way they want, but that's not really the point Bill Cosby was trying to get across.

I would just like it if people in english speaking countries, no matter what their color, could learn the english language properly - not because they see learning it as some kind of uncool and painful but necessary chore; but because deep down they recognized and LOVED it for the incredibly powerful communication tool that it is.

Man, what a impact a few thousand INSPIRING english teachers would have on society.

exactly....buried in my long entry...

26. It is essential that I learn to speak and write standard English. This is not "acting white," but acting smart.

Language is truly the key to all communication.
Communication is the path to understanding.
Understanding is the first step to unity.
Unity is the only way to peace.
Peace is the Goal.

Precisely right.

Why is it that Hispanics have been so successful integrating into the culture and eroding barriers? They stopped harping on differences and instead contribute strength.

An "African American", or any hyphonated American for that matter, is only partially American.

Mr.Cosby just got 5 stars in my book on top of the many he allready had.

And for every one elses post besides the very first one, right on. :thumbsup:

there are segments that are too proud to do that here in the Latin communities, Puerto Ricans come to mind here in NYC.

But that is some truth, IMHO the Hispanic community also has used the trail that the Blacks blazed with the whole Civil Rights movement, as have the Asians.

So, the answer to all the world's ills is that we should learn to talk like Bill Cosby???


Ooooooo... Kaaaaaaaay.

There is ONE english language and there is ONE correct way to speak it whether one be black, white or orange.

Spend some time in the Midlands region of the United Kingdom. I needed a translator. I am pretty certain they were speaking English, but it wasn't an English I understood.

For that matter, even the deep south in the US.

I'd disagree with the statement that there's one English, not with all the regional dialects that are out there. :D

J, E, L-L, O...it's alive!

Bill Cosby should be commended for bringing up such strong points at an important event.

Uh have you been outside the US much?

Regional dialects and accents are one thing however I'm fairly certain that grammatcial rules of correct usage are universal for southerners as well as english speaking foreigners alike.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for sooo long. I think He spoke only the truth, and those people at the meeting needed to hear it. Now if something can be done about it, let me axe you dis...

Heh, i like the Australia edition spell checker on my various word programs; otherwise all my colour's and such get changed to American english. eep! :p

I respectfully disagree with you. With colloquialisms and slang there's more than one version of English. I have always spoken English, but when I spent a semester in France, the first class they had us take was slang, cussing, and regionalisms just so we could survive, because in any language, very few folks use perfect grammar all the time.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to the dialect and method of speaking in the South over the years, but as I recall, from the very first encounter with an individual speaking the so-called "southern draw," I found it easier to understand than any of the other accents in the United States. In the end, what you are condemning is an accent and not an entire restructuring of the English language. One can speak fluent proper English with a Southern accent and still get a point across. In fact, and again, we may be debating different perceptions of the same thing, the common language of antebellum south, circa 1864, dwarfs our present vocabulary in comparison and contrasts with our present accepted staccato, business-style sentence structure. What I've read in letters and novels of the era is more akin to modern poetry than our "modernized" discourse.

What Bill Cosby is talking about is (as previously mentioned) a "perversion of the English language" that exists as a complete restructuring of accepted grammatical customs. "Where you is" is not a correctly structured English statement or question.

Chicago, Turabian and MLA Manuals of Style are in effect every bit as much in the South as they are anywhere else in the world. The point to which you are responding addresses what "correct English" should be, not the level at which people of a region live up to the maxims set forth in the aforementioned tomes. The rules for properly spoken and written English remain universal, with small, almost trivial, deviations. Though it may be true that the words of our language change in meaning and frequency of usage from one region or nation to another, the application does not.

What is being debated here is the degradation of proper English, and not the informal speech that you point out. Colloquialisms, as you mention, differ from one location to another, but they have little to no role in formal, proper English. That is the point Bill Cosby is trying to make.

edited for grammar :P

Amen.

LOL

If I remember correctly, Bill has a doctorate in English.

WTG BC!

He is a wonderful man. His thoughts and opinions were never swayed even after his son Ennis was killed while changing a tire on the side of the freeway, because he was black not because he was Bill Cosby's son.

Education:
Temple University, Philadelphia, PA; B.A.; Radio/TV/Film
University of Massachusetts--Amherst; M.A.; Education, 1972; Ph.D; Education, 1977

I agree with Bill's comments. I am saddened that today's generation of blacks (not all of them were from africa) have destroyed everything the civil rights movement worked so hard for.
Bill Cosby's mom actually lives in my town. I haven't seen him around, but my friends have seen him visiting his mom.

-Robert

I can't say anything but WAY TO GO, BILL! Incredibly true.

Also, I am a little offended about the title of the article, the way it is stated makes it seem like a bad thing. No doubt there will be outrage over this from idiotic people who only read titles. Just watch, within two days there will be Bill Cosby backlash.

Same goes for the thing recently about the "Multiculturalism is bunk" article about the Maryland Senator (Governor?). He made very valid points yet the article title failed to make it seem that way.

The entire linguistic text and politico-cultural subtext here is so brave as to constitute a revolutionary call.

Entire generations of politically-correct avoidance and denial as well as misplaced identities and allegiances, insidious marketing and enablement, and wrong-headed solidarity regarding these issues will require nothing less than a massive dose of getting a clue here. I'm not optimistic that this is possible.

Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. They turned Cosby's courageous and positive statements into a negative and inflammatory statement, simply to appeal to the narrow ideological views of their readers.

The point of Cosby's statements was that it is time for the young African-American community to get rid of the defeatist attitude that has been plaguing it for years and begin to continue the path that was set by the civil rights leaders who came before them. His message is a postive one and one that I would like to hear more from some younger leaders in the black community

Way to go Bill... He nailed it on the head right there, and couldnt have picked a better place to do it.

Thanks for the correction.

when i was in texas a guy told me i sounded like a fertilizer salesman with a mouth full of samples.

I worked at a summer job for my dad at a warehouse with blacks from 20-30. The ratio of money spent on family and education to drugs/car rims/car stereo is utterly pathetic. A good majority of them never graduated college, are making $8.00/hr, and pay child support.

Ebonics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), also called Ebonics (see below), Black English, or Black English Vernacular (BEV) is a dialect of American English. Strictly speaking, there is some controversy in the larger community about whether it should be considered a dialect, but this is based on difference of opinion about what it means to be a dialect. Among working linguists there is no such controversy. Similar to common Southern US English, the dialect is spoken in many African-American communities in the United States, especially in urban areas. It has its origins in the culture of enslaved Americans and also has roots in England.



(a wee more info about ebonics)

I'm split on this. Such as the parents buying their kids shoes instead of educational stuff. Blacks aren't the only one to do this. No one is free from that. I think also, young blacks are basically doing the same as other young people now. Look at how crappy English is in schools and what not.
I think what he said was definately couragous, espically at where he was, but I think many many pieces of it can be labelled to many other people besides black families now.
Just the other day, I saw a lady with 4 kids. You could tell they were poor because of the childrens clothes, but yet the mom had on an outfit that is sold at a store for over a hundred bucks.
I dunno I think society is headin' down the drain and somethings got to be done about everything, not just a small segment.

Edit: Fixed my fuck up.

Just an observation......Many of the posts in this thread, show as little respect for the English language as the Ebonics we are discussing. Errors in syntax, and the inability to use defined language are prevelant in all aspects of our culture. If indeed, there is a "perfect" form of English, we are all guilty of failing to use it, to some extent.

This is not in defense of one cultural interpretation of English, or another. Just a reminder that we are a diverse population, and will make societal changes to whatever language we have, regardless of race, or economic status.

Please Fallon, take no offense.

I'm split on this issue. As an example, parents buying children shoes, rather than investing in thier education. African-Americans are not alone in this, as no segment of society is immune.
The failure of Language education in the public schools may carry some of the blame.Considering the venue Mr. Cosby used for his statements, he showed definate courage. The bulk of his statement could just as easily be directed towards virtually any segment of society, and be justified.
I am reminded of a situation I witnessed. A woman of obvious poverty, her four children in tattered and shabby clothing, somehow found the means to dress herself in designer apparel worth in excess of $100.00.
I find it diturbing that society , in general, is heading in the wrong direction. It would be refreshing to see change directed at the whole, rather than any particular segment.




As you can see, it all comes down to interpretation of the language. There really is no right, or wrong way to speak. There are simply "different" ways to communicate within a society.
Naturally, this is just my opinion.

A lack of grammar in an online forum is a far cry from the ebonics under question =).

I think one reason for his statements is the victim mentality that many people and especially some minority groups have today. If you act like a victim then people who respond in kind and take advantage of your victim mentality. Get out of the victim mentality. Anyone can do almost anything if they REALLY want to do it. Early in the black equality movements there were blacks who made sacrifices and didn't act like victims because of their sacrifices. They were seen as victors because they acted like it. The "poor me, poor us, we are born poor, we're trapped in poverty" kind of mentality is a defeatist position to take. In America we are not trapped by casts as in some middle East countries where is practically illegal for a person from a low cast to work in a white collar job. Here in America - if you work hard enough and learn to act with class then you will open up your own doors. Language isn't the only issue. It's your whole attitude and actions.

It's educational and empowering to hear differering opinions on any subject. Why is it that among educated people racial issues can't be discussed openly?

Mr. Cosby's observations are refreshing, regardless whether or not you agree with them.

Thanks for listening.

As I mentioned earlier, these are some of the reasons.

"...politically-correct avoidance and denial as well as misplaced identities and allegiances, insidious marketing and enablement, and wrong-headed solidarity..."

Good point hulk.

I commend Mr. Cosby for making those remarks. I wish there were more community leaders that addressed the real issues that we face as a society and stop worrying so much about how there image will be poytrayed if they speak against the system. Frankly, I am tired of hearing how certain segments of society don't have as many opportunities to get an education, good job, money for their kids, etc....

My neighbor and good friend is Black. He recently moved from Inglewood, California and from the stories he tells, he had it pretty rough as a kid. From gang violence to lack of schooling materials, to drug ridden communities to police brutality, he certainly had it rough growing up. However, he had as much of a chance to get out of that lifestyle and make something of the situation. I am proud to say he has. He will be going to college in August, he has a good job, he is saving for a car, and he has aspirations to do so much more with himself.

I think the point that Mr. Cosby is making is that there is ample opportunity for any segment of society to get out of the hole they are in. Unfortunately, particular segments aren't capitalizing on those said opportunities. It is about time someone spoke up at an event like this and pointed out that our society does have a continuing problem and noone seems to be doing anything about it.

umm no. I know lots of Filipinos that do it too....

I call them Figgers.

There is a vast difference from ebonics to semi-proper English. I overheard a five minute conversation at the warehouse I spoke above, and to be honest, I was unable to understand a single word, along with my friend. We were not able to put together ANY two words that this particular group was speaking.

Crap crap crap crap crap
I meant to say AREN'T
damnit...sorry.

Yes, for some reason they don't see the value in the education process.

I give props to Bill for having balls. On the other hand, I live in a Residence Hall (P.C. for "dorm")with a very hetrogenous make up (some-what near equal number of blacks, whites, and asians) and have noticed many of the african americans can express them self quite nicley. In fact, these students can have a much firmer grasp of the english language than many, dare I say most, of the people I grew up with in the (hick) town of Leander, Texas (20 or so miles north of Austin, POP. around 4000(rough estimate)).

Yes, you can argue that the people I live with are in a different socioeconomic class than african americans in the "ghetto". Nevertheless, I know many white people that would rival the "ghetto" in terms of poor english.

I'm white btw.

haha
 

All I have to say is great job Bill.

True, but no one tries to force schools to teach "bilingually" in english and Southern. That's why ebonics is so maligned. Well, one of many reasons.

This reminds me of a Newsweek article from a few years back. It was about racial and cultural separations in the US. The only direct quote I remember from it was a 8-year-old child asking his mother (A lawyer or doctor, I think,) "Mom, why you talk with that fake white accent?"

People need to understand that they can unify in some areas like language without losing their cultural identities. Kids need to learn not to be mad at "the white man" for keeping them down, but be mad at those among their own cultural and ethnic groups who refuse to let them out of a self-perpetuating cycle of under-education, poverty, and cultural isolation. Only after this cycle is addressed and dealt with that outside help can bring the underpriveleged up to the level of mainstream society. Sort of a practical, down-to-earth application of "God helps he who helps himself"

I've to agree with Cosby on this one... Maybe it is a cultural thing, but I work with 3 black individuals, and not one of them speaks English correctly. And I don't mean making a mistake now and then, it is as if it's intentional. There's no effort. A spanish woman I work with has a small vocabulary of English words, but she never says "you is" or "it don't came yet". It's pretty horrid to listen to.

Oh, and sorry if the word "black" offends someone. I cannot keep up with whether we're supposed to say African-American or black these days.

No there's not. I'm from England. I talk differently to you. So do people from Canada. So do people from Texas. English is a broad church, a dynamic and evolving language. Just because you speak it differently does not make you stupid.

"Blacks Can't Speak English" - Bill Cosby at the NAACP.
--- Simply Brilliant!!

Yes, they "Can" but they "Don't"....many people of color would prefer to talk Ebonics. My friend Ennis says it's so they can have some privacy. Just like the folks speaking Spanish in Walmart. I speak Danish whenever I want to keep a comment private between my man and I in some public places.

As my bumper sticker says, "Axe Me About Ebonics".

And the little-known coda to that brilliant line is, "If you don't know where you want to go, then any road will take you there."

One of the things that make Dr. Cosby's humor so funny is that it's not "Black" humor; his stuff is just plain funny. It's the kind of stuff that happens to everyone, and so everyone can relate.

I think that's also what made "The Cosby Show" so funny and popular, too. The Huxtables were never a black family; they were an American family who happened to be black.

Don't the Chinese have essentially the same situation with Mandarin? Although they may speak with different dialects, they all learn to read and write Mandarin.

mandarin or cantonese are the predominant ones that I encounter.

I live in Arkansas, and this isn't just a black problem. There are a ton of dumbass white dudes running around with one 10 in their checking account and 2 tens in the trunk.

I agree with what Cosby says, and it's a step in the right direction. Equality is a two way street, and the African American community as a whole has not seized the opportunities they have been granted.

But in a move that I think conservatives can agree with, we need to recognize that these social problems transcend race, and pursue policies that extend opportunity to everyone at a disadvantage, regardless of race. The idea of being "disadvantaged" has been abused by some people, but it is no reason to discard the concept, or to start thinking that we've achieved equality. To put it another way, the approach has failed, but the problem persists.

I have to agree with Bill here. Nobody takes responsibility for their actions anymore. People are always looking to blame someone else. Its time these people go to school and get a education and stop the blame game. Im not just reffering to blacks either. But to be realistic, blacks and hispanics are the majority, where I live anyway.

I have had friends from India who could speak " the Queens English" better than I can.
The term "Queen's English" I learned from a great college english prof. She often told use to use the spoken form appropriate for the group or individual but to have the command of true english.
If you can speak well, you can read well, and you write well; you have some of the greatest keys to success.

Bill wasnt talking to the educated blacks attending colleges he was talking about the gang bangers and money culture many are being raised in today on the streets.

The kids in your dorm are attending college and they certainly were not the targets of his criticism.

Wow, I think I am one of the only people who disagree with Bill Cosby on this one. Anecdotal evidence of things ethnic persons in poverty do paints a bad picture of what is going on. We can't totally blame the victim, because they are victims, after all. No one wants to be poor and have the inability to care for their family. To ignore the role of society and how it affects us is to ignore the biggest factor in poverty. We are not total individuals with total free will.

I don't think he's denying that part at all.
I believe he was focusing on the personal responsibility piece.

sure, but they are also the first to place blame on someone else instead of taking some responsibility of their own situation.

Chinese writing is all the same, no matter what dialect is spoken (besides the fact that there is now a Simplified character set and Traditional character set). At least this is true for Mandarin and Cantonese. I'd assume it would be true for all the other dialects. My dad can even read some Japanese but only knows the Cantonese pronounciation.

I learned a lot when we went on a family trip to Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shanghai. My parents are both from Hong Kong, where everyone speaks Cantonese. They both know minimal Mandarin, and the dialect in Shanghai went over all of our heads.

Sorry for straying from the topic.

Bill Cosby is awesome.

As someone who lives in what's considered the "Deep South" (Texas), and has spent time in several of the surrounding states (Louisiana, Arkansas, and a couple others) as well as having lived in Chicago for 7 years, I can say that there are places everywhere I've been where people spoke such a mangled form of English that I could barely understand them.

For those of you who have seen My Cousin Vinny please recall the "two yutes" scene. In Bahstahn, it's cah pahk and bah, not car park and bar. In Texas it's "y'all git on inside 'fore I have t' lay int' y'all." I have been to some extremely "backwoods" parts of this fine state, and there are people that even I, as a native Texan, have trouble understanding unless I listen extremely closely.

Additionally, there's a guy at the local bar from London, and when he's in his pints and gets going, Ed is barely intelligible to me. I've been around quite a few Englishmen, as well as conversed with many via online mediums, and British English, Irish English, Scottish English, and American English are four very different languages when it comes to syntax, grammar, spelling and idiomatic expressions.

There is NO single English lexicon. However, BEV (Black English Vernacular) is simply a bastardization of the language to the point of being unintelligible to anyone who isn't immersed in it.


Regarding Cosby's statements, I couldn't agree more with both his words and his choice of venue to share them. This is a man who's spent his life becoming an educated and respected man, has held his doctorate for over 25 years in (of all things, GASP!) Education, and may just have some knowledge about the conditions of lower-middle class black americans when it comes to their economic/educational status in this nation.

Good points made Rat. One of my good friends and soon to be neighbors is Black. He is 23, a former college ball player, and just a cool cat all around. However, he speaks like he still lives in Inglewood. What I mean by this is he speaks ebonics. "What up yo?" "Whass checkin dog?" I know what he means because he is my friend, but I have often though about the job situation. Being IN the staffing industry, I wonder how far he wants to go or what type of work he eventually wants to settle into. I also think about the employer and what their first impression of the guy is because is the way he talks. I think very highly of my friend, but I also know he is putting up barriers for himself because of the way he talks sometimes. It isn't every day that I run into a black CTO, CEO, CIO of a company and they greet me with a, "What up E-Dawg?"

I worked with Charles Smith from the Knicks (ugh that was a tough deal) anyways, he did talk like he was from the "hood" when appropriate. ONLY when appropriate. But when he was doing things to get work done, he spoke professionally.

He knew when to switch it on and off.

i think that there is the assumption that people who speak with a dialectic slang do so all the time.

i am filipino and i grew up in scarborough, my "black-cent" can be thick, especially when i am talking to my friends that have also grown up in scarborough.

but i am also a graduate of teacher's college and will be teaching english and history. i have taught for 3 years and when i am in a classroom and when i write my essays my language is perfect.

on the other hand i have had to mark and edit hundreds of essays and i cannot tell you how many times students who can speak english well end up writing papers with atrocious grammar and spelling mistakes.

to make the assumption that someone who DOES NOT speak "proper" english CANNOT speak "proper" english is very misinformed and unfair to the individual.

it maybe misinformed and unfair, but FIRST impressions count heavily, and that's a fact of life.

I too am filipino and I was kicked up and down the street if I started with a filipino accent let along a mexican or black one. I'm going to stand by the fact that I have an advantage over my cousins who have said accents and act like "wiggers"

yes, but what is the situation? are you an employer in an interview setting? if that is the case then yes, it would not be wise to speak in ANY type of slang.

but is this a social setting, a party, a co-worker on the factory floor? if it is, then why is there a need to speak formal english? and why would we think any less of someone if they do not speak formal english?

communication is important, but the quality of the idea is just as important. bullshit is still bullshit, even if it is said well.

we cannot totally write someone off because he/she cannot speak english as well as we do (or think we do). there are too many mitigating factors at play to make a blanket generalization.

I'm of the opinion that meeting people is ALL the time. I get jobs from people that I meet at parties and other functions. Obviously if I'm sitting at the park, maybe I could see that, but quite honestly, if you are on the golf course? Oh right that's the whiteman's game right? Of course not.

And the mitigating factors are easily written off... it's called First Impression and I don't get a second chance at making a good one.

That's my line!!!!! Obviously, I am in sales and I live by that quote.

I hope you didn't derive that from my post because that is not what the intent was at all. If someone chooses NOT to speak proper English, that's their choice. If they do it for cultural reason, my suggestion is to get with the times. The minute we stop segregating people because of their color of skin, they dialect they choose to speak with, the build of their character, then and only then will we truly be "the melting pot". Until then, we will continue to create divides between people because they choose not to conform with a basic principle like speaking proper English.

Why do we need to be a melting pot? Why do we need to strip ourselves from our cultural diversity? Though we all live in the same country, we should hold on to our sense of culture and history. We cannot ignore our differences; rather, we should embrace them and then interact with and learn about others.

Personally, I prefer - for myself, mind you - to totally and completely drop all references to my ethnic heritage and accept only the label "U.S. citizen." I'm quite adamant about this in my personal life.

This was my choice growing up. I never had any desire at all to identify with anything having to do with my heritage.

Bill Cosby has hit the nail on the head.

African Americans have been in this country for what, 250+ years now, as long as everyone else.

The European settlers all melted together to become a somewhat homogenous social group with the common language of English.

And after the great waves of Europeans, the Asians came along. They were mistreated, and the subject of many stereotypes, but they didn't publically denounce the current social structure. Instead, they've learned English and became fully functional and sucessful members of American society, even while retaining some of their own culture.

Now, we have a recent influx of Mexicans, and the majority of first generation American citizens are coming into age. They have went far and wide into the country, and have struggled with abject poverty and lack of english education in efforts to lead a better life. They are hard working, and many of them are illegals, but they know it and don't try to abuse the system. They just want a better life for their families, and are working for it.

If they blame white people for their current social situation, they are not public about it.

This brings me back to African Americans. Of course, it is an important point to note they were enslaved for over half the time they were in the country, but that has been 5 generations ago. There definitely isn't any living African American who has been enslaved.

Since then, they have been given oppurtunities to rise out of their social stagnation, and some have sucessfully integrated with the rest of our european/asian country. Yes, they aren't in positions of power. But some have risen to positions of power. Women have too, after being disadvantaged for a far longer time than African Americans.

But no other group tries to distance itself from American society like the African Americans. Organizations like the NAACP are blatantly anti-white, and serve as divisive. They think they are entitled to something in todays world because of something that happened a 100 years ago. They refuse to take personal responsibility for their own lives. They would rather blame it on white-owned Corporate America. They still honestly believe there is a great white conspiracy to keep them 'enslaved'. There are African Americans now who recieve grants for our government just to preach about how awful white america is.

How is the white conspiracy enslaving them? Someone on welfare isn't paying taxes or contributing anything valuable to the nation. If corporate america, or white america was enslaving them, the African American population would be contributing to society more than what it does now.

For every George Washington Carver, there are a thousand drug dealer/pimp wannabees and welfare mommas. This is sad, but it is a fact of life.

Corporate America doesn't hate black people, they hate lazy people. They hate unproductive members of a capitalist society.
Bill Cosby knows this. That is why he pushes for education and adaptation to our current society. Intelligent and responsible members of any cultural group will go far. There aren't as many limitations as what people think.

While, to a certain extent, diversity is a good thing, our cultural differences are also the root of all of our problems. Every single conflict in the history of the world can be attrubuted to cultural differences. It all depends on how micro you want to get. I'm generally all for inclusiveness and respect for the culture of others. On the other hand, that inclusiveness and respect begin to waver where someone's culture has a net negative effect on themselves or the people around them. Being able to effectively communicate is vital for participation in any society. Not being able to communicate effectively is something that can only hold you back.
Being able to speak proper english is, ideally or not, a huge part of america's business and academic culture, two places where blacks have historically gotten the shaft.

Success in any situation is the result of a mixture of preparation and opportunity. Proper english is very often a vital part of being prepared. Which isn't to say that you can't live a completely satisfying and productive life lacking the ability to speak english correctly(i wonder how many grammar mistakes i have made so far in this post?).

Well, they should look at hte bright side filtherton. You can say "You want fries with that?" with as much slang as you want, and no one minds. See, even the ones that don't speak proper english can beome a part of corperate america....

Try telling that to the Asians in California who cannot vote because the ballots are only in English and they cannot read the names.

Wouldn't you say that the fact that they are illegal is an abuse of the system? Also, working bottom of the rung jobs that no White will do is not an integration into all of society, it is scraping off the bottom.

No, Black Americans are not being enslaved, but they are oppressed. It is not an intentional oppression by any single White American (at least not in most cases), but there are social structures that promote the oppression of Blacks. It is these structures that are dividing Black and White America, as well as other ethnic groups.

You are making my point here, at least until the last sentence. It takes education and adaptation to rise above the trap many minorities find themselves in. However, what do you do when there are no educational or adaptational options available? I would say that there are more limitations than what most people (on the top) think.

I agree with that, I've always thought of myself as American when asked "Where are you from?" "What's your nationality?" to "What's your heritage?"

The majority of asians in the country are not fresh-off-the-boat immigrants. There are 3rd, 4th, 5th generations...

There are jobs which need to be done. Farm labor is apparently scraping off the rung to you? Well, it is necessary to society....

You know, I come from rural eastern kentucky. We have one high school, which everyone goes to. There is no minority high school, and there is no private schools for 30 miles.

Let me repeat. We have one high school, and everyone goes to it.

Now, you take Louisville, our largest city , which has a population of 38% African Americans. In this school, there are many private schools, which african americans can go to for free or low cost, and magnet schools, in which any smart student can attend for free.

The university of Louisville will let any Jefferson County ( Louisville ) African American go to college for free provided they had a 21 on the ACT and a high school GPA of 3.1 or better. Any high school is included.

These are not insurmountable numbers. This is achievable by anyone who even remotely takes high school seriously, no matter what high school you go to . Unless you insist on writing tests in ebonics on paper used to cut cocaine.

Please, tell me how these poor, underprivledged ghetto students have impossible educational odds put in front of them. Tell me how no matter what, their magnet school/private school educations are worse than my public school education. Tell me that they cannot afford college.

Affirmative action has given them oppurtunities, whether you acknowledge it or not. It is their own fault for not taking them.

Define a job that "No white will do". I'm white, and I have yet to find a job that I absolutely would not do. I've done many things I would have preferred not to do, but I still didn't consider it "beneath my dignity".

The farm labor is bottom rung considering how much work it is compared to how little it pays. While the job itself may not be considered the lowest of the low, it is considering the pay. And yes, there are many programs to help Black Americans in Louisville and other places to get higher education. However, education begins long before high school. Children need a stimulating and personal environment early on to succeed intellectually later. There is a window of time early in human life where if you don't get that seed watered, it won't grow much later on no matter how much attention or help it gets. It just so happens that when this window opens is the same time that these lower class parents are out working and still don't have enough money or time to devote to their kids' learning. Achievement is limited to abiulity, and ability is limited to the conditions of childhood, conditions that are far from favorable.

This is a valid point. It all starts at home. However.... I came from a poor family, not poverty, but far from well off. Both my parents worked, and did not have as much time as they would have liked to stay at home with my sister and me. However, they made sure that the time they were able to spend was top notch. They encouraged me to learn to read when I was haveing problems with it early on, and fostered it to the point that I was reading on a 9th grade level in 3rd grade. Oddly enough I still can't spell worth a shit. There are ways to deal with these issues, if the "parents" involved are will to BE parents, and do things, like, oh, lets say teach their kids how to speak english.

Every now and then people need a swift kick in the ass. It looks like Bill was in the right place, the right time, and had his size 12's on! Now someone White needs to tell this to the white guys, someone Hispanic needs to tell the hispanics, someone Asian needs to tell the asians, etc. Maybe, just maybe, if people hear it from one of their own, it will start to get through and not sound like a put down!

Bill is on the right track! Kudos to Mr. Cosby!

The ballots in California are NOT only in english. I personally believe we spend way to much money to print things in different languages. No other country prints its ballots or government documents in other languages. If you are going to come to this country and participate in the way things are run, then you need to learn the language. I would not go to France, never learn to speak French, and then complain that I can not vote because I can't read the election materials, or understand what the people running stand for because I can not understand them. This is just common sense.

In a way we are encouraging people to NOT learn english by printing everything in every language. If they can get what they need by speaking thir own language, why learn english?

Amen, Sir ART! As usual, the most succinctly worded perfect reply. As for my "heritage, " I don't have a clue and don't want one. I know the name of the small town in Alabama where my grandfather was born and that is as far back as I know or ever will know.

I am equally aware that there is a lot of Celtic blood flowing through the Deep South (which explains a lot of "typical" Southern behavior), and I'm probably loaded with it. So what?

I, too, am a U.S. citizen. That is enough, and that is plenty.

First of all Seer, it's awesome that you were able to rise above the system. However, you are one case on many. I am not saying it is impossible for upward mobility to occur, it's just extremely difficult, and we all need to be aware of how these difficlties work. As for the ballots, it's one thing to change everything into other languages, but it is another ball game when we are talking about voting. Voting is a right for each and every citizen (barring age and felony restrictions). Whether or not they can speak our language, their voice deserves to be heard. All I am saying is that we need to address the problem. And yes, we are American (those of us who are US citizens). However, people who are oppressed stick together with their own kind to survive. This is why they identify as XXXX-American. It's not that they really wish to distance themselves from others, it's because they are already distanced. The White American view of the country is wholly different than that of others.