You come to America, you learn to speak english. - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ripp3r · 05-13-2004, 11:23 AM

being belgian i know all about the difficulties of having a multilinual culture
half of belgium is dutch speaking, while the other is French speaking, a small part of belgium is German speaking
so in essence every belgian is obligated to speak the three national languages... in theory

the truth is far from a utopia of languages.
it is a fact that the french speaking community does not even bother to speak dutch to those who have dutch as maternal language... while they should be just as proficient in the language as them.
The dutch speaking community however is usually pretty leniant and speaks french without too much hassle, maybe our scholing system emphasises more on the knowledge of french... maybe we are better at mastering another language...

apart from the three official languages, we have lots of immigrants who usually speak very little of any official belgian language, and still expect to be treated as an equal...

Tollerance is a nice thing to have, but there are limits to it...

I agree that when you move to a different country, you should at least make the effort of mastering the language of that country... that is the only way in my eyes you can ever really fit in...

Xell101 · 05-13-2004, 12:01 PM

It's stupid to come here to live and work and not know English. Why should we accomodate people who do that to the extent that we do? Are we building a society to stand the test of time or something to simply go with the flow for better or worse.

viejo gringo · 05-13-2004, 06:35 PM

Why learn english???? Those asshat over at Home Depot in Weslaco and McAllen Texas make all of their public announcements inthe stores in Spanish....Don't ask me what they said, I only speak English.

This happens every spring after all of the winter texans have went back north.

Orchrist · 05-13-2004, 10:45 PM

Ugh, this issue does annoy me, coming from the area I live in, I have to agree, please for the love of god learn to speak english, if my great grandparents could learn from their kids, then so can you. I run into this constantly, everywhere from drive-thru's to hospitals!

mirevolver · 05-14-2004, 11:51 AM

There is a huge Mexican population here in Phoenix, AZ. But do I speak spanish? No. Do I have any intention of learning Spanish? No.

They came to a country where the majority of people speak English, if they want to interact and deal with the people in this country they should learn English. If they choose not to then they should not expect me or any other American to cater specifically to them. They chose to come here, they should learn our language.

Now if one day I decide I want to make a trip to Mexico, I'll learn a little Spanish before I go, because that's the langauge spoken in Mexico. But for now, whenever someone tries to talk to me in Spanish, I simply fall back on the only three spanish words I know, "No hablo español." (I don't speak Spanish.) It gets the message across just fine.

I have also recived phone calls where the person on the other end dialed the wrong number and they don't understand a word of English. In those cases I replied to them in a language that's close enough to spanish that they get the message, Italian. I just simply say, "Numero errato." (wrong number)

H12 · 05-14-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irseg
So let me get this straight. If a president signed a piece of paper saying Englsh is our official language, it would be okay to require others to speak it because our wonderful all-knowing government said it is. But since's it's a de facto part of our culture rather than a law, it's "selfish and self absorbed" to expect others to speak our language. Whatever.

You move to Germany, you speak German. Move to China, speak Chinese. So why in the hell is it so wrong for people who move to America to speak English?

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
No one in America should be forced to speak english, nor should they expect to be catered to because they don't.

Double-ditto.

billege · 05-14-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Ehrlich says he didn't mean to offend
But governor reiterates multiculturalism position

By David Nitkin and Tom Pelton
Sun Staff

May 14, 2004

Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. said yesterday that he did not intend to offend immigrants with remarks labeling multiculturalism as "bunk" and "crap," but reiterated his position that adherence to common American values is a cornerstone of a well-functioning society.

"Clearly, I certainly don't want anybody to be offended. But on the other hand, I meant very clearly to distinguish between how we should celebrate our diversity and ethnicity, but the important point here is assimilation," Ehrlich said during an interview on WTOP radio in Washington yesterday morning.

"It has always been the goal," said the governor. "And to those who believe that assimilation is not the goal, that's where the real debate lies, in my view."

Ehrlich called the station shortly before a group of Hispanic, Native American and African-American civil rights activists gathered in Baltimore to demand apologies for recent comments from Ehrlich and state Comptroller William Donald Schaefer.

"It's clear that Ehrlich does not believe in the value of cultural differences," Ricardo Flores, president of Maryland Latino Coalition for Justice, said during a news conference at the Fells Point offices of CASA of Maryland Inc., an advocacy group. "He believes that a multicultural society cannot survive. That is a very extreme and very scary position."

The activists also announced the filing of an ethics complaint against two Baltimore-area delegates who they claim verbally attacked and ridiculed Hispanic lobbyists this year.

The complaint asks the Joint Committee on Legislative Ethics to reprimand Dels. Richard K. Impallaria and Patrick L. McDonough, Republicans who represent portions of Baltimore and Harford counties, for an incident in March inside a House of Delegates building that required police intervention. The delegates were the lead sponsors this year of several bills to crack down on illegal immigrants, and the scuffle occurred after a hearing on one of the bills.

The continuing debate over language, immigration and cultural values was touched off a week ago during a state Board of Public Works meeting, when Schaefer criticized fast-food restaurant workers who don't speak English.

Ehrlich was absent from the meeting but endorsed the sentiment the next day during an interview on WBAL radio. "Once you get into this multicultural crap, this bunk, that some folks are teaching in our college campuses and other places, you run into a problem," the governor said.

Immigrant groups and political opponents have pounced on the remark as an example of insensitivity and fear-mongering, but the governor has not backed away from his argument and has rebuffed requests for apologies.

The governor said yesterday that he distinguishes between multiculturalism -- which he said fosters separation and weakens democracy -- and legitimate ethnic pride and celebration.

"I've been German of the year. ... I take pride in my German heritage, but for my common cultural values, I look to America," Ehrlich said on the radio station. "The goal here is assimilation. The goal here is to strengthen the melting pot which is America, not to separate ourselves out.

"I look to the common values, and the common cultural values which are American -- capitalism, democracy, freedom and obviously a common language. ... I really believe the incredible support my statement has received from all around the state reflects the vast majority view," he said.

The Hispanic activists in Baltimore said the Ehrlich and Schaefer comments appear to be a continuation of an anti-immigrant movement that is permeating the state capital.

"Since the beginning of the session in Annapolis, we have been receiving attacks from delegates and other people," said Gustavo Torres, executive director of CASA of Maryland.

The governor was defended yesterday by Luis Borunda, a Baltimore businessman and chairman of Hispanic Republicans of Maryland, who said Ehrlich has reinvigorated Hispanic outreach and minority business efforts in the state.

"The political enemies of this Administration are rearing their heads and see multiculturalism as their opportunity to try and make the governor appear as though he is somehow anti-minority," Borunda said in a statement. "Multiculturalism seeks to undermine the fabric of America by putting our differences ahead of our commonality."

Four activists with CASA of Maryland Inc. and another group yesterday filed the ethics complaint. The activists alleged that Impallaria angrily accused a Hispanic lobbyist of being an illegal alien after a hearing March 18 on a failed bill that would have created a task force to study the "financial impact of illegal immigrants on Maryland's job market."

The complaint also asserts that McDonough pushed a union leader who tried to intervene in the argument, requiring police intervention.

McDonough, a 60-year-old radio talk-show host from Middle River, said his confrontation with an activist was not a push, but that contact occurred when he raised his arm to defend himself from a union leader who rushed at him.

He said the ethics complaint was an attempt to intimidate and silence him.

"The American people want something done about the problem of illegals," said McDonough. "This is a nation of immigrants, but it's a nation of legal immigrants and a nation of laws."

Copyright © 2004, The Baltimore Sun

"The goal here is to strengthen the melting pot which is America, not to separate ourselves out."

That part I agree with.

Cynthetiq · 05-14-2004, 02:34 PM

SchoolHouse Rock: Melting Pot

How can you melt right in if you don't try to melt in?

pocon1 · 05-14-2004, 06:18 PM

Actually, America does have an official language. It is called english. If you look at the requirements to become a citizen, you must be able to speak, read, and write ENGLISH. Now, is the law enforced? Not very much, but it is there. Speak what you want to at home, or to each other, but if you want to succeed in business and not cater to a smaller population, speak english, and if you want a government job, you better speak english well.

OFKU0 · 05-14-2004, 06:54 PM

Interesting discussion. In Canada's capital, the countries political and bureacratic centre of Canada, to obtain governmental employment if one isn't bilingual (french and english) is a distinct disadvantage.

Imagine having to learn another language to secure that type of employment. And those who want jobs as such and don't speak english, they have to learn french too.

zxello · 05-14-2004, 07:25 PM

I believe 100% that if you come to live here, whoever said 'you' may be, you should learn to speak proper english, i mean shit, everyone else in the every other country in the world speaks english along with their native language, so why can't you just fuckin conform and SPEAK ENGLISH!

i dunno.... its a double-edged sword, americans want immigrants to learn english, AND we want other countries to learn english so that we can be more comfortable while visiting.

Cynthetiq · 05-14-2004, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pocon1
Actually, America does have an official language. It is called english. If you look at the requirements to become a citizen, you must be able to speak, read, and write ENGLISH. Now, is the law enforced? Not very much, but it is there. Speak what you want to at home, or to each other, but if you want to succeed in business and not cater to a smaller population, speak english, and if you want a government job, you better speak english well.

I posted it earlier in the thread. You need to speak, read, and write, BASIC english. There is no definition of what basic means, and if you look at ballots which I assume is an important thing for being able to participate in as a citizen, IMO you should be able to read and understand that and it should be written in BASIC english.

merkerguitars · 05-14-2004, 11:46 PM

Do you see me and going to europe and making people install 110volt outlets....no.....

Hrothgar · 05-15-2004, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Asuka{eve}
I beleive in the future in some parts of America its going to be pretty much mandatory to know spanish.

Yo creo que eso es cierto.

05-13-2004, 11:23 AM	#41 (permalink)
Ripp3r Tilted Location: Dublin, Ireland	being belgian i know all about the difficulties of having a multilinual culture half of belgium is dutch speaking, while the other is French speaking, a small part of belgium is German speaking so in essence every belgian is obligated to speak the three national languages... in theory the truth is far from a utopia of languages. it is a fact that the french speaking community does not even bother to speak dutch to those who have dutch as maternal language... while they should be just as proficient in the language as them. The dutch speaking community however is usually pretty leniant and speaks french without too much hassle, maybe our scholing system emphasises more on the knowledge of french... maybe we are better at mastering another language... apart from the three official languages, we have lots of immigrants who usually speak very little of any official belgian language, and still expect to be treated as an equal... Tollerance is a nice thing to have, but there are limits to it... I agree that when you move to a different country, you should at least make the effort of mastering the language of that country... that is the only way in my eyes you can ever really fit in... __________________ We All Have Questions What Seperates The Men From The Boys Is The Ability To Use Google To Find Our Answers

05-14-2004, 11:51 AM	#45 (permalink)
mirevolver Inspired by the mind's eye. Location: Between the darkness and the light.	There is a huge Mexican population here in Phoenix, AZ. But do I speak spanish? No. Do I have any intention of learning Spanish? No. They came to a country where the majority of people speak English, if they want to interact and deal with the people in this country they should learn English. If they choose not to then they should not expect me or any other American to cater specifically to them. They chose to come here, they should learn our language. Now if one day I decide I want to make a trip to Mexico, I'll learn a little Spanish before I go, because that's the langauge spoken in Mexico. But for now, whenever someone tries to talk to me in Spanish, I simply fall back on the only three spanish words I know, "No hablo español." (I don't speak Spanish.) It gets the message across just fine. I have also recived phone calls where the person on the other end dialed the wrong number and they don't understand a word of English. In those cases I replied to them in a language that's close enough to spanish that they get the message, Italian. I just simply say, "Numero errato." (wrong number) __________________ Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions.

05-14-2004, 02:34 PM	#48 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	SchoolHouse Rock: Melting Pot How can you melt right in if you don't try to melt in? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-14-2004, 06:54 PM	#50 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Interesting discussion. In Canada's capital, the countries political and bureacratic centre of Canada, to obtain governmental employment if one isn't bilingual (french and english) is a distinct disadvantage. Imagine having to learn another language to secure that type of employment. And those who want jobs as such and don't speak english, they have to learn french too. __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

05-14-2004, 07:25 PM	#51 (permalink)
zxello Addict Location: P-Town, WA	I believe 100% that if you come to live here, whoever said 'you' may be, you should learn to speak proper english, i mean shit, everyone else in the every other country in the world speaks english along with their native language, so why can't you just fuckin conform and SPEAK ENGLISH! i dunno.... its a double-edged sword, americans want immigrants to learn english, AND we want other countries to learn english so that we can be more comfortable while visiting. __________________ Old signature just wasn't doing it for me anymore, so now I have this new one. It's equally as stupid but at least it looks really long. I'm probably just going to keep typing until I run out of things to babble about and see how many people actually read this. I once ran down a hill, fell down and hurt my elbow; my mom said I would be ok, she kissed it and made it all better. I've run out of things to say now, so if you have read this whole thing, congratulations you get a gold star!

05-13-2004, 12:01 PM	#42 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	It's stupid to come here to live and work and not know English. Why should we accomodate people who do that to the extent that we do? Are we building a society to stand the test of time or something to simply go with the flow for better or worse.

05-13-2004, 06:35 PM	#43 (permalink)
viejo gringo Registered User Location: Deep South Texas	Why learn english???? Those asshat over at Home Depot in Weslaco and McAllen Texas make all of their public announcements inthe stores in Spanish....Don't ask me what they said, I only speak English. This happens every spring after all of the winter texans have went back north.

05-13-2004, 10:45 PM	#44 (permalink)
Orchrist Tilted Location: NJ, USA	Ugh, this issue does annoy me, coming from the area I live in, I have to agree, please for the love of god learn to speak english, if my great grandparents could learn from their kids, then so can you. I run into this constantly, everywhere from drive-thru's to hospitals!

05-14-2004, 06:18 PM	#49 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	Actually, America does have an official language. It is called english. If you look at the requirements to become a citizen, you must be able to speak, read, and write ENGLISH. Now, is the law enforced? Not very much, but it is there. Speak what you want to at home, or to each other, but if you want to succeed in business and not cater to a smaller population, speak english, and if you want a government job, you better speak english well.

05-14-2004, 11:46 PM	#53 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Do you see me and going to europe and making people install 110volt outlets....no..... __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985