American beheaded by Iraqi complete thread

[kutulu]

I know exactly what you mean. Our typical war coverage is soldiers shooting (you don't see people get hit) and images that look like an Atari 2500 video game.

My point is that there are a lot of people who after seeing the video or getting descriptions of the video they say that they are reaffirmed in their belief that we are right and our opponents are animals. The truth is that we are displaying the same animalistic traits.

[ARTelevision]

What is particularly significant in that video, IMO, is the way the killers kept shouting "God is Great" in their native tongue, while carrying on their dull-knife butchery and the victim's screams filled the room. There are some details that do make a difference. Perhaps a complete verbal blow-by-blow description might be somewhat comparable to experiencing the document itself. But there's not much, if any, of that available either.

[Crack]

Originally posted by Averett

And yes, I think that if we pulled our troops it would stop terroism.

It might, for a day, or a month, or even a year, but you have to ask yourself what Terrorists want... to cause terror, ok, then why do they want to cause terror? Because the dislike us. Ok, now why is that? Because we invaded their lands? No, there were fundamentialist Muslim terrorists before we were ever in "Their" lands, What they have are "Excuses" for being terrorists, not reasons, take away all complaints from the terrorists, move out of all Muslim nations, give them whatever they wanted, and there would still be people running around with backpacks full of explosives. It's been like this for hundreds of years and it will never cease until you remove the leaders and the motivating factors that rile the people to violence, like Bin Laden and Sadam (on a different level) Whenever you have people teaching children at a really young age to hate another race or culture it becomes ingrained into that persons psychie until they reach adulthood and they complete the circle and teach another child the hatred they learned. Just look at america in the 50's and 60's with the race wars, and what has become of it. What America must do is end the circle of violence by leading by example and teaching respect for other cultures and races. We are hated becaues we have become the police-force of the world, how many of us really like the cops, unless you are a cop, we will never be respected at a nation until we can show that we can be a force for peace not totalitarian rulers of subjugated nations.

Or just ignor this post, I had a point, but I think it might have gotten lost in my rambling ...

[kutulu]

Originally posted by Cynthetiq
correct. trying to excuse bad behavior by point out worse behavior is just childish if not asinine.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the people that want to act like it's cut and dry. We're good guys, they are the bad guys. The good guys kill, but only when they have to. The bad guys kill whenever they can.

You can't refute my points and would rather think that we're still fighting the moral war so you say that my post is childish?

Ever since this happened, I've been listening to conservative crap that our enemies are the evil ones and we're just trying to win the war. The abuse, the mysterious deaths, and the vid link of the soldier shooting a defenseless man on the ground (and afterward our "honorable" soldiers cheering) show that we are not on some higher level than the enemy. We are on the same level. The only difference is that they embrace it and we care only when we get caught.

The abuse was not new. We've been talking about it, but never had irrefutable proof that it was going on. There was an investigation, but until the photos came out, so significant action had been taken. Suddenly the press runs the photos and magically we have a soldier being court martialed and several people have been relieved from duty and sent home.

Should we think it's just a coinscidence that these things happened RIGHT after the abuse was shoved in our faces or does it seem like things only happened so quickly because they were caught with their pants down?

[clavus]

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
those who know how this really needs to end know where the bomb needs to be dropped...Berkely, CA.

Hello? You are advocating bombing an American city? Regardless of your rationale, I find this completely offensive and more than a little disturbing.

It's funny how this thread started out with people crying out against those intollerant fanatics who would do us harm, and has degenerated to the point of suggesting an intollerant, fanatical terrorist act against Americans.

Maybe we are our own worst enemy after all.

I am disgusted. I think I'll stop now, before I write something that would get me banned.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by kutulu
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the people that want to act like it's cut and dry. We're good guys, they are the bad guys. The good guys kill, but only when they have to. The bad guys kill whenever they can.

You can't refute my points and would rather think that we're still fighting the moral war so you say that my post is childish?

Ever since this happened, I've been listening to conservative crap that our enemies are the evil ones and we're just trying to win the war. The abuse, the mysterious deaths, and the vid link of the soldier shooting a defenseless man on the ground (and afterward our "honorable" soldiers cheering) show that we are not on some higher level than the enemy. We are on the same level. The only difference is that they embrace it and we care only when we get caught.

The abuse was not new. We've been talking about it, but never had irrefutable proof that it was going on. There was an investigation, but until the photos came out, so significant action had been taken. Suddenly the press runs the photos and magically we have a soldier being court martialed and several people have been relieved from duty and sent home.

Should we think it's just a coinscidence that these things happened RIGHT after the abuse was shoved in our faces or does it seem like things only happened so quickly because they were caught with their pants down?

actually no, I wasn't trying to refute your point or ANYONE else's points. I was making my own points. I do agree with you killing is killing, but like the argument of getting an SUV safety accident argument, who would you want to survive after an accident? It's absurd to say "When we kill we do it because it's good." is the same as "We are killing because of the evil American Empire which is Allah's wish" (note the REAL definition of the word absurd: logically contradictory)

But there has come to a point where there's been some sort of action/reaction which has been escalating since the end of WWII. This isn't Bush's fault, it's his reaction to it, and that may be his fault, but the terrorism isn't his fault, and the next evil Presidents to come, it will be the same thing, living in the legacy of the creation of a Zionist state surrounded by the Arab states.

[bigoldalphamale]

Originally posted by clavus
Hello? You are advocating bombing an American city? Regardless of your rationale, I find this completely offensive and more than a little disturbing.

It's funny how this thread started out with people crying out against those intollerant fanatics who would do us harm, and has degenerated to the point of suggesting an intollerant, fanatical terrorist act against Americans.

Maybe we are our own worst enemy after all.

I am disgusted. I think I'll stop now, before I write something that would get me banned.

on a typical day, my happy ass goes about my business not even remotely concerned about what is going around me. i keep up with current events, and i consider myself well read and educated, and so when something like this happens...on the heels of this infintessimally more insignificant scandal pressed and ironed for the public by liberal traitors involving some iraqis who had thier pics snapped without their fascist feety pajamas on...i get really pissed off. and then i see the event marred by the uninformed ramblings of those so snowed by liberal media that they honestly think they are right in calling Bush America's own worst enemy and a traitor. the dirtball liberals who run around saying, ignorantly of course, that none of this would have happened if Bush has just stayed home and tended to domestic policy. and so i say...the liberals are going to lose this war for us. the liberals who want to pull out and come home and sniff eachother's asses instead of dealing with the problems that seriously need tending to, that no other nations are willing tackle. and so i say metaphorically, that the problem will be solved if we bombed Berkely, CA...which, if you didnt know, is the proverbial epicenter of liberal movements and the symbol of the american left. i dont know why i am explaining this...possibly because you went and called me a traitor or something gay like that...but for the record...the statement was quite obviously nothing more than metaphorical jargon aimed at keeping the liberals out of the white house. and with that...i leave this discussion...i am obviously vastly outnumbered here.

[kutulu]

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
on a typical day, my happy ass goes about my business not even remotely concerned about what is going around me. i keep up with current events, and i consider myself well read and educated, and so when something like this happens...on the heels of this infintessimally more insignificant scandal pressed and ironed for the public by liberal traitors involving some iraqis who had thier pics snapped without their fascist feety pajamas on...i get really pissed off. and then i see the event marred by the uninformed ramblings of those so snowed by liberal media that they honestly think they are right in calling Bush America's own worst enemy and a traitor. the dirtball liberals who run around saying, ignorantly of course, that none of this would have happened if Bush has just stayed home and tended to domestic policy. and so i say...the liberals are going to lose this war for us. the liberals who want to pull out and come home and sniff eachother's asses instead of dealing with the problems that seriously need tending to, that no other nations are willing tackle. and so i say metaphorically, that the problem will be solved if we bombed Berkely, CA...which, if you didnt know, is the proverbial epicenter of liberal movements and the symbol of the american left. i dont know why i am explaining this...possibly because you went and called me a traitor or something gay like that...but for the record...the statement was quite obviously nothing more than metaphorical jargon aimed at keeping the liberals out of the white house. and with that...i leave this discussion...i am obviously vastly outnumbered here.

lol

[OFKU0]

Originally posted by ARTelevision
Acording to any reasonable standard of what might constitute some degree of objectivity, stating "Our hands are just as dirty" is an indefensible and completely absurd exaggeration.

Yes agreed, but so effective.

[timalkin]

I'm not sure why people keep talking about the video of the Iraqi soldier being shot in the street as though it was wrong.

We don't know what led up to the shooting. Perhaps he was doing something that he deserved to be shot for. Yes, he was on the ground and LOOKED defenseless, but I'd be damned if I'm going to leave cover to give a handjob to a wounded terrorist.

[Zeld2.0]

bigoldalphamale

i dont even know what to say

its pretty clear you can't take OTHER people's opinions and prefer to kill other Americans?

great, criticizing terrorists when you want the same thing? what makes you any different by wanting to bomb another person just because he's different?

Its not Love it or Leave it. It's love it all or don't love it at all.

What the fuck has America become within its own country?

It's not so much about race anymore but about political ideology?

This entire world is going fucking nuts


As for crackprogram: On a sense I agree that they may never leave us alone forever. But my question is the same as what you posed as a question - its WHY they dislike us enough to kill us.

For over 150 years in our history, they didn't give a shit. This wasn't a problem until the 1970's really and those decades were really when we got involved in affairs which at times we didn't need to be involved in.

Its a question worth asking - WHY do they dislike us when after a century, they didn't.

[bigoldalphamale]

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
bigoldalphamale

i dont even know what to say

its pretty clear you can't take OTHER people's opinions and prefer to kill other Americans?

great, criticizing terrorists when you want the same thing? what makes you any different by wanting to bomb another person just because he's different?

Its not Love it or Leave it. It's love it all or don't love it at all.

What the fuck has America become within its own country?

It's not so much about race anymore but about political ideology?

This entire world is going fucking nuts


As for crackprogram: On a sense I agree that they may never leave us alone forever. But my question is the same as what you posed as a question - its WHY they dislike us enough to kill us.

For over 150 years in our history, they didn't give a shit. This wasn't a problem until the 1970's really and those decades were really when we got involved in affairs which at times we didn't need to be involved in.

Its a question worth asking - WHY do they dislike us when after a century, they didn't.

you're kidding me right? can you read? do you know what a metaphor is? if you dont, then you probably were not able to understand much of what i wrote. i dont fault you for your lack of education. its a problem in our education system. lucky for you, our country caters to and watches out for PEOPLE like you so that you dont hurt yourself or others around you.

and because you cant read it cant fault you for not knowing that radical islamafascist doctrine promulgates violence on any nation the mixes or supports zion in anyway. because we treat jews as equals and support thier causes domestically and abroad (not necessarily exclusively as it relates to israel) we are a target for terrorist attacks regardless of any isolationist policy we could concievably implement.

i will go back to my tilted motors and sports where the majority of posters are educated about the topics which they post on.

thanks for coming out though chief.

[Zeld2.0]

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
you're kidding me right? can you read? do you know what a metaphor is? if you dont, then you probably were not able to understand much of what i wrote. i dont fault you for your lack of education. its a problem in our education system. lucky for you, our country caters to and watches out for morons like you so that you dont hurt yourself or others around you.

and because you cant read it cant fault you for not knowing that radical islamafascist doctrine promulgates violence on any nation the mixes or supports zion in anyway. because we treat jews as equals and support thier causes domestically and abroad (not necessarily exclusively as it relates to israel) we are a target for terrorist attacks regardless of any isolationist policy we could concievably implement.

i will go back to my tilted motors and sports where the majority of posters are educated about the topics which they post on.

thanks for coming out though chief.

wooooo thanks personal insults if i were you i'd edit it beforeits too late

[ARTelevision]

One does not call other members "morons" and remain a member for long.

[bigoldalphamale]

i have facilitated the necessary edit. i was out of line and my point is as resoundingly clear to the educated without the insensitive namecalling.

[fhqwhgads]

Even without the "moron" comment, I find comments like "can't you read" and telling someone that they lack education to be childish.

Can't someone disagree with you without being belittled?

[tecoyah]

The above posts (while entertaining) are a prime example of why people get banned.
There is no acceptable reason for this kind of childish retaliation.
********no acceptable reason*********
I cannot even tell you how many times I have had to abandon a thread to avoid this kind of mistake. It is easier to walk away, with some form of respect intact.

Spankings all around seem in order for all the nasty children.

[bigoldalphamale]

Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Even without the "moron" comment, I find comments like "can't you read" and telling someone that they lack education to be childish.

Can't someone disagree with you without being belittled?

i am the most welcoming person on earth of an entertaining educated arguement. its the best way of learning new perspectives and information. unfortunately, what we have in this thread is alot of bad information being passed off as fact and as support for the removal of our president. its the kind of activity that breeds ignorance. some kid comes to the forum and jumps on the thread and reads through to find that several of the posters here believe that this man had his head cut off because the US in iraq as part of president Bush's penchant for world domination. this kid unwittingly takes this as some sort of truth and attempts to pass it off as fact to his friends. no doubt the same process that led many of you to the conclusions you have come to based on what is essentially...bullshit. crack a history book, get with the program and form an educated opinion please and stop the feeding the cycle of gross ignorance.

[Zeld2.0]

bad information? breeds ignorance? some kid?

whoa there one second - since when did you decide information was good or bad? because it doesn't agree with you?

thanks but no thanks

you realize who is sounding more ignorant?

metaphor or not when one gives an example of bombing anyone, what does that sound to others?

civil discussion are great but when people bring up insane comments, it drives me nuts

[bigoldalphamale]

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
bad information? breeds ignorance? some kid?

whoa there one second - since when did you decide information was good or bad? because it doesn't agree with you?

thanks but no thanks

you realize who is sounding more ignorant?

metaphor or not when one gives an example of bombing anyone, what does that sound to others?

civil discussion are great but when people bring up insane comments, it drives me nuts

'For over 150 years in our history, they didn't give a shit. This wasn't a problem until the 1970's really and those decades were really when we got involved in affairs which at times we didn't need to be involved in.'

this is your 'information' and it is bad. it is incorrect and inaccurate, and ultimately...bad. maybe even...ignorant?

i offer a wholesale apology to this thread for hijacking it with this nonsense. i also offer my apology for trying to bring accurate, factual, and relevant information. it is obviously not welcome here.

[Zeld2.0]

thanks sarcasm?

prove it wrong then

America as a nation was not greatly threatened by Arabs, Muslims, or whatever in that sort in the first 150 years of our history

The explosion of what we call modern terrorism really began late 60's through 70s and on

Prove that we've been the victims of bombings based upon the jihad

Your arguments are welcome but if you're going to dismiss others and insult then criticize without bringing your own proof, then you've got a job to do.

[BuDDaH]

Everyone, let please welcome the FIRST and (hopefully) the LAST ever in TFP's history: *A TIME-OUT*

(too many good people on this thread, so if I can't ban the goose without the gander....)

I am not going to close this thread because I think everyone from this point on, can reply rationally to it.

Keep those emotions in check and stick to thread topic.

[fypon]

Fuck it!!!!! pull out our troops and change the climate there to 1000 degrees via atomic weapons. Send them back to the pre stone-age.

This event pissed me off like no other in recent memory. Know what pisses me off even more? The fact that at a time when we should be UNITED as a people there are political antics, name calling, partisan bullshit, cry baby, excuse mongering, puke in your underwear non-sense galore.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!

This isnt going away and it will never get easier. Stop the bickering and bullshit and lets take care of business. Old but it still applies "United we stand, divided we fall" My fellow Americans..... we are starting to fall.

/rant off

[Lasereth]

Best. Thread. Ever.

There's people on other forums saying that this video is gonna cause World War 3. This video is creating quite a stir!

-Lasereth

[DelayedReaction]

I watched the video, and I have a few comments:

The reason people can do things like this is because they do not view the victim as an equal human being. To his murderers Nick Berg was a political statement, not a human being. The same applies to the American who killed the wounded Iraqi soldier; his opponent was the enemy.

The fact of the matter is that cruelty will happen on both sides of any engagement. People will use this video as a rallying cry for both Iraqi resistance and an American drive to crush that resistance.

To those who suggest we pull out, consider what that would do to the Iraqi people. Rebellion would splinter the country into territories ruled by warlords, and the civilian population would be decimated by civil war. The fact of the matter is that our country has a responsibility to end the job we have started, and restore peace to a country that we have brought to war. Our reasons for entering this war are now irrelevant; what matters is how we finish.

I fear that the current administration has not completely covered that end.

[MrFlux]

Originally posted by DelayedReaction
I fear that the current administration has not completely covered that end.

I agree with your post completely.

Maybe the U.S. government was thinking too much about winning the war (against the Iraqi army) when they should have been thinking about anti-Insurgency measures.

[brinkn1]

So everybody agrees it's a tragedy that this happened, but I haven't seen anyone mention the <I>REAL</I> tragedy.

Nick Berg was supposed to head back to America in late March. En route to his destination, he was detained by Iraqi police in Mosul, and handed over to AMERICAN forces. Our forces held Mr. Berg for 13 days, without giving him a reason for WHY he was being detained, nor giving him access to his lawyer. He was finally released when his parents in America found out he was being detained without reason & took it to court.

Mr. Berg was released and went back on his way. Unfortunately, he was kidnapped by the terrorists shortly after. Had our forces not detained him without reason, and provided him access to a lawyer, PER HIS RIGHTS, none of this would have happened.

Obviously the Bush administration doesn't give a flying fuck about democracy or human rights & this is a perfect example of what happens when these things are ignored.

[MrFlux]

Originally posted by brinkn1
So everybody agrees it's a tragedy that this happened, but I haven't seen anyone mention the <I>REAL</I> tragedy.

Nick Berg was supposed to head back to America in late March. En route to his destination, he was detained by Iraqi police in Mosul, and handed over to AMERICAN forces. Our forces held Mr. Berg for 13 days, without giving him a reason for WHY he was being detained, nor giving him access to his lawyer. He was finally released when his parents in America found out he was being detained without reason & took it to court.

Mr. Berg was released and went back on his way. Unfortunately, he was kidnapped by the terrorists shortly after. Had our forces not detained him without reason, and provided him access to a lawyer, PER HIS RIGHTS, none of this would have happened.

Obviously the Bush administration doesn't give a flying fuck about democracy or human rights & this is a perfect example of what happens when these things are ignored.

Where'd you read that?

[analog]

Originally posted by ARTelevision
One does not call other members "morons" and remain a member for long.

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
...lucky for you, our country caters to and watches out for PEOPLE like you so that you dont hurt yourself or others around you.

...replacing "morons" with "PEOPLE" in that sentence makes no sense. I can't believe you honestly think that's the only thing wrong with addressing people in such a way.

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
...i also offer my apology for trying to bring accurate, factual, and relevant information. it is obviously not welcome here.

What's not welcome is blatant contempt displayed towards your fellow TFPers.

Your attitude is disproportionate to your ability to deliver solid debate. When every point you try to make degrades into sarcastic jibes, it dilutes the value of any arguement you might have had when you started writing.

You're not debating anything anyway. You're making a mockery of this serious discussion with your misplaced rhetoric.

Must I remind anyone that a man was brutally murdered- that his head was cut off with a knife while he was alive and fully conscious?

Originally posted by tecoyah
The above posts ~~ are a prime example of why people get banned.
There is no acceptable reason for this kind of childish retaliation.
********no acceptable reason*********
I cannot even tell you how many times I have had to abandon a thread to avoid this kind of mistake. It is easier to walk away, with some form of respect intact.

Bravo.

[charlesesl]

Originally posted by crackprogram
It might, for a day, or a month, or even a year, but you have to ask yourself what Terrorists want... to cause terror, ok, then why do they want to cause terror? Because the dislike us. Ok, now why is that? Because we invaded their lands? No, there were fundamentialist Muslim terrorists before we were ever in "Their" lands, What they have are "Excuses" for being terrorists, not reasons, take away all complaints from the terrorists, move out of all Muslim nations, give them whatever they wanted, and there would still be people running around with backpacks full of explosives. It's been like this for hundreds of years and it will never cease until you remove the leaders and the motivating factors that rile the people to violence, like Bin Laden and Sadam (on a different level) Whenever you have people teaching children at a really young age to hate another race or culture it becomes ingrained into that persons psychie until they reach adulthood and they complete the circle and teach another child the hatred they learned. Just look at america in the 50's and 60's with the race wars, and what has become of it. What America must do is end the circle of violence by leading by example and teaching respect for other cultures and races. We are hated becaues we have become the police-force of the world, how many of us really like the cops, unless you are a cop, we will never be respected at a nation until we can show that we can be a force for peace not totalitarian rulers of subjugated nations.

Or just ignor this post, I had a point, but I think it might have gotten lost in my rambling ...

So what you are saying is that the rest of the world is composed of savages who are just waiting to strap bombs on their backs and kill themselves. And america is the only civilized nation is the world to stop all this. How? By killing everbodyelse. Truely ingeneous idea.

[almostaugust]

LOL. Buddah tells everyone to cool it down a bit and the first post following is a "Fuck it, lets nuke em" post. Entertaining reading i can tell you. Seriously though, this video is sickening. Humans doing this to each other is barbaric. In fact war, and the way this conflict is heading is deplorable. Every single human life should be treated with the same respect. One person shouldnt be more recognised and revered just because he or she is white. Quite obviously, the whole affair is creating terrorists, not stopping them. Comments about nukeing the whole area really amaze me. I mean, we can have so much compassion for this poor dude who got beheaded, but zero for the faceless brown multitudes of forign human beings (women, children etc).

[fypon]

LOL. Buddah tells everyone to cool it down a bit and the first post following is a "Fuck it, lets nuke em" post. Entertaining reading i can tell you.

That was my first thought in response to this. Truely not the way to go about resolving the problem however, my frustration level had peaked at that moment.

Every single human life should be treated with the same respect. One person shouldn’t be more recognised and revered just because he or she is white.

Even those five terrorists that murdered Nick Berg?

I do agree with your statement except when someone proves through their own heinous actions they are not worthy of anything less then death.

Quite obviously, the whole affair is creating terrorists, not stopping them.

True to some extent. The US being in their lands puts us within their striking distance, which for most of the terrorists would not be possible. So there are more terrorists coming in from surrounding areas.
Terrorism will never be stopped. It can however be managed or minimized. It’s in the US best interest to fight terrorism head on anywhere but within our borders.

Comments about nuking the whole area really amaze me.

Emotional outrage. No apology. I have a very healthy respect for life.

[bigoldalphamale]

"You're making a mockery of this serious discussion with your misplaced rhetoric."

you're unbelievable. reread the entire thread please, before you go spouting off some horseshit like that. myself and about two other posters here are the only ones who have made any kind of attempt to present FACTS. the mockery is in the comments where someone says that anyone who wants to view this video is sick. that's making a mockery of this discussion. someone comes into this thread and wants to talk about the beheading without having seen the video, in all of its dispicable humanity and tries to proport to those who have viewed it...that they 'understand' or 'can just picture it' ... NO YOU DONT and NO YOU CANT. this mode of thinking is the same thing that permits those same people who have no understanding of world history, religion, or politics to come into this same thread and start talking about throwing Bush out of office because he has no idea what he is doing. here's the hint for those people: you're the ones without a clue! terrorism on american soil is not the only thing we are working to prevent...we are working to protect free people all over the globe from radical islamic militant murderers. bringing the soldiers home and returning to diplomatic negotiations with guys who strap bombs to thier chests is a great idea!!! "psssst. its a great idea to leave the terrorists with millions of square miles in the middle east to use as headquarters from which to launch thier murderous operations on western civilization. and we never set foot there again, we're safe! pass it on!" this is what you want going around? then i am happy to be the asshole to come here and tell you all that you're wrong. well you're more than just wrong...but we'll leave it at that.

[Lasereth]

It's not your views that people don't like. It's the fact that you're being rude. Everyone can express their opinion here, and all the better if you can back it up with facts: but don't be so fuckin rude!

-Lasereth

[bigoldalphamale]

i'm not an asshole in real life, i just play one on tv!

cant i at least be a loveable asshole?

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
i'm not an asshole in real life, i just play one on tv!

cant i at least be a loveable asshole?

no. being an asshole is unacceptable.

[kutulu]

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
myself and about two other posters here are the only ones who have made any kind of attempt to present FACTS.

Just what makes yours arguements facts rather than opinions? Nothing that I see. Stop trashing everyone for having their own opinions.

Look, this video has done exactly what the terrorists wanted it to do: play on our emotions. When you let your emotions rule you, common sense goes out the window. That is exactly why most people shouldn't watch the video. Most people in this country are way too tied to their emotions.

Thousands of people are murdered for reasons much more stupid than this every year by our people. Where's the outrage about that? Why is the death of a guy who didn't have the common sense to get the fuck out of that country any worse than any other death from the war?

Originally posted by fypon
Fuck it!!!!! pull out our troops and change the climate there to 1000 degrees via atomic weapons. Send them back to the pre stone-age.

So the proper response to a murder is genocide? Sure, let's kill millions of innocent people to "get even" I'm sure that would give us the international support we need. Luckily, even Gov. Bush is smart enough to know that wouldn't be the answer.

Our current approach to the War on Terror is wastefull, both monitarily and in the lives that are lost. Don't fool yourself into thinking that we can just kill enough and the rest will be too afraid to attack us again. Also don't fool yourself into thinking that our enemies are foolish or cowards. They are fighting an effective war.

I'm not saying I know what we should be doing. I don't know. It still doesn't mean that I can't see that we are getting nowhere with our current approach.

[fypon]

kutulu

So the proper response to a murder is genocide? Sure, let's kill millions of innocent people to "get even" I'm sure that would give us the international support we need. Luckily, even Gov. Bush is smart enough to know that wouldn't be the answer.

I already explained this a few posts before this one.

"That was my first thought in response to this. Truely not the way to go about resolving the problem however, my frustration level had peaked at that moment."


Originally posted by kutulu

Look, this video has done exactly what the terrorists wanted it to do: play on our emotions. When you let your emotions rule you, common sense goes out the window. That is exactly why most people shouldn't watch the video. Most people in this country are way too tied to their emotions

I would rather more in touch with my emotions than not. Its thinking before you act that is the bigger problem in our country.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by kutulu
Just what makes yours arguements facts rather than opinions? Nothing that I see. Stop trashing everyone for having their own opinions.

Look, this video has done exactly what the terrorists wanted it to do: play on our emotions. When you let your emotions rule you, common sense goes out the window. That is exactly why most people shouldn't watch the video. Most people in this country are way too tied to their emotions.

Thousands of people are murdered for reasons much more stupid than this every year by our people. Where's the outrage about that? Why is the death of a guy who didn't have the common sense to get the fuck out of that country any worse than any other death from the war?



So the proper response to a murder is genocide? Sure, let's kill millions of innocent people to "get even" I'm sure that would give us the international support we need. Luckily, even Gov. Bush is smart enough to know that wouldn't be the answer.

Our current approach to the War on Terror is wastefull, both monitarily and in the lives that are lost. Don't fool yourself into thinking that we can just kill enough and the rest will be too afraid to attack us again. Also don't fool yourself into thinking that our enemies are foolish or cowards. They are fighting an effective war.

I'm not saying I know what we should be doing. I don't know. It still doesn't mean that I can't see that we are getting nowhere with our current approach.

without getting into the morality of it, it Nagasaki and Hiroshima did force the hand of Japan to surrender very quickly.

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Originally posted by Cynthetiq
without getting into the morality of it, it Nagasaki and Hiroshima did force the hand of Japan to surrender very quickly.

True, but it wouldn't work in this situation. Japan had a central government and a fanatical population who would die for their Emperor. A "shock-and-awe" type demonstration was used because there was a specific person to shock and awe.

From a purely strategic standpoint, that wouldn't work here. There is no central authority (that I know of) governing the insurrection, and individual cells are unlikely to lay down arms just because America uses bigger bombs.

What we need to do is win the hearts of the people. A population that is angry at us will harbor resistance fighters and mask them from our soldiers, making our job harder. This also results in gross acts of stupidy such as the prison abuse incident, which further stoke the civilian population and causes a spiraling cycle that gets worse over time.

I don't know the situation very well beyond what I hear in the news, but I almost feel as if America needs to apologize and open themselves up to the UN. Push for truly international support and oversight. Accept that we made a mess of things, apologize to the international community for being so antagonistic, and request they aid the US in rebuilding Iraq properly.

Once again, I do not see our current administration doing this. In fact, I wonder if there is ANY administration capable of performing such an act.