Iraqi Prisoner abuse - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 05-06-2004, 12:39 PM

My God people.....mellow out.

We are at War, Like it or lump it.
War creates violence, and people die.
War creates stresses beyond human endurance, and people break.
War is not a clean little affair, and is full of atrocities.
Iraqis have murdered Americans.
Americans have murdered Iraqis.
Both sides have made mistakes, and will make more.
Torture is unacceptable, but that wont stop it.
We will all Bitch about the entire thing, long after it is over.
The actions of a few, do not reflect the attiude of the whole.
On either side.

One thing to remember- We INVADED Iraq , most likely on what will be percieved as false pretences. They will be pissed, just as we would be. It will do nobody justice or be of any help to make matters worse by acting below civilized standards, but we will anyway, because.........That is war.

Kostya · 05-06-2004, 05:30 PM

I love it...

The phrase 'mellow out' followed by some of the most brutal depressing truths of humanity's twisted little existence...

:P

Anyways, we should all go watch Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola eases the pain...

slvrnblck · 05-06-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by water_boy1999
The country would have been fine without the war? You mean, to continue to let Saddam Hussein stay in power would have been a good thing? There is no doubt in my mind that he needed to be pulled from power. Do you think the war on terrorism would have just stopped after 9/11? Do you think Saddam would have woke up one day and decided to be a good leader and give money back to his people, stop trading arms for oil from other Middle East countries, building up his arsenal, torturing and raping his own people? I don't think so.

We have war because it is a necessity of human life. We make do with what we have because without our armed forces, our country would be an easy target for dictators and tyrants whose narrow minded view of the world makes them think their race and religion should be the ultimate influence in the rest of the world. Our soldiers not only protect our country from these evil doers, but they protect the very essence of every right you hold as a U.S. citizen. If you feel you can still have these rights without the influence of our military, you have a very narrow minded view of not only our society, but the societies of who we are at war with.

I do not agree that the atrocities by U.S. soldiers is in any way justifiable, but to group all military personnel into one, as you put it, "whether they are gentle or not, they are murderers", shows a limited knowledge of what our country would be like without
them.

You have got to be kidding me. First of all, Saddam was not a threat to the US at all. Bush is just trying to finish what his daddy could not. What on Earth did Saddam have to do with Sep 11 to begin with - absolutely nothing.
By your logic, it would have been OK for Saddam to attack America because he thinks Bush is evil and he doesnt like him, but if that happened you would have a totally different view on everything.

And what about this "arsenal" you are talking about, is this the same arsenal that we did not find, but were sure he had?

As for the so called war on terror, it will never be stopped, no matter how many wars you have, no matter how many people you eliminate, terrorism will not be stopped, you will always have nut jobs blowing themselves up. Besides, what right of Americas is it to go around to other countries and do whatever they please. Bush is no less of a evil dictator than Saddam was, they are both murderers who hopefully will be punished for what they have done.

As for your comment about the war being a necissity of human life, it is not even worth responding to as you and most everyone else on this board with the exeption of a few have been brainwashed by the American Govt.

slvrnblck · 05-06-2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by raeanna74
I take offense at this statement. I have 4 family members who have been or are soldiers and 2 of which are still currently serving. I have several friends who have served and some still are serving. None of these men and women whom I know are there for the sole purpose of killing. The believe that as a world power it is part of the United States duty to help protect the weak. Iraq is notorious for being cruel and abusive toward the weaker of the world and of their own nation.

Not all of those friends who I know who are serving truely approve of the United States reasons for this current war. They did not know they were going to be thrust into a situation that they didn't totally agree with either but they have the honor to at least go through with what they agreed to.

Not one of these men and women whom I know who serve our country are Sociopaths. Do you even have a psychology degree to make such a declaration.

I'm not disgreeing that those who abuse the prisoners don't have some psychological and emotional problems and need to be dealt with instead of allowed to continue. Their actions do not speak for the entirety of our armed forces let alone a large portion even.

Please refrain from making negative generalizations.

First off, I do not need a psychology degree to make a statement like that. Anybody who has the power to pick up a gun and murder innocent people, or for that matter, anybody at all, without a second thought is not mentally stable.

You say Iraq is cruel toward the weaker of the world? I thought America was the nation always attacking the weaker country. Iraq being one of them. Besides, do you truly think we are in Iraq to help them, if you do, you are blind just like everyone else. If the case was to give the Iraqis freedom, why dont we go into all these other countries that have a evil dictator and no freedom and help them?

Once again, you say some of these soldiers dont agree with what they are in Iraq for, but fight anyway. This does not make them heroes, it makes them cowards for being afraid to disagree and say they will not fight, no matter what the circumstance or punishment would be. You can say what you like, but it doesnt change the facts. Thou shalt not kill.

slvrnblck · 05-06-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pragma
Would just joining the military make someone a sociopath? For a lot of people, it's their last option, looking to get out of a dead end job or town (for example, I know someone who was a rancher's son in Montana who joined up to get out of there). If you think just joining the military makes someone a sociopath, you have a very distorted and inaccurate view of the military.

With the exception of the Marines, where every Marine is a rifleman first, a lot of the branches don't give their personnel a lot of weapons training - and a lot of people don't touch guns at all while in the military, they repair computers, planes, cook meals, act as Air Traffic Controllers, etc.

Also, soldiers aren't really given a choice about going to Iraq and fighting - deserting is not an option, and if you are given an order, you obey it. So I hardly think that being ordered "Go liberate Iraq from Sadaam Hussein" makes every (or most) soldier a psychopath.

I said it before and I will say it again, they do have a choice, they had a choice not to join the military. It doesnt matter if they are in a dead end job or they hate where they are, whatever the case may be, they knew what they were getting into. These "heroes" knew that they could go to war and kill people, but that did not stop them. So dont give me the bullshit execuses.

slvrnblck · 05-06-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clavus
Not all who have served in the military have killed.

All would be willing to die to protect your freedoms, including the freedom to spout nonsense without the use of apostrophes.

I've seen death from both sides. I don't fear Hell.

I let my emotion get to me and posted instead of leaving the thread, so I lebell had to edit me.

clavus · 05-06-2004, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slvrnblck
I let my emotion get to me and posted instead of leaving the thread, so I lebell had to edit me.

Well, it's official. The thread has degenrated to the point of personal attacks. This is why I generally stay away from the politics.

And if anyone else is in the mood to jump to conclusions about me - I've not killed another human, though I have seen people die. And I was in a situation that should have killed me. For some reason, I was saved...maybe my purpose here on Earth is to point out the need for apostrophes in possessives and contractions. Maybe my purpose to to mock the self-righteous who wish ill on others.

Pragma · 05-06-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clavus
Well, it's official. The thread has degenrated to the point of personal attacks. This is why I generally stay away from the politics.

And if anyone else is in the mood to jump to conclusions about me - I've not killed another human, though I have seen people die. And I was in a situation that should have killed me. For some reason, I was saved...maybe my purpose here on Earth is to point out the need for apostrophes in possessives and contractions. Maybe my purpose to to mock the self-righteous who wish ill on others.

I agree. Political threads, with a few exceptions, tend to be multiple sides spitting out the same arguments again and again, because no one is willing to change their point of view. And when people get sick of seeing the same thing, they start attacking each other.

I think it's safe to say that this thread is better left dead.

Lebell · 05-06-2004, 08:08 PM

Enough of this.

Let this serve as a general warning.

Two members are on the edge of being banned because of this nonsense name calling.

To the rest of you, you can make your points (even strong ones) POLITELY.

If you cannot, there are many other boards that will allow you to flame away at each other, but TFP is NOT ONE OF THEM.

-lebell

05-06-2004, 12:39 PM	#81 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	My God people.....mellow out. We are at War, Like it or lump it. War creates violence, and people die. War creates stresses beyond human endurance, and people break. War is not a clean little affair, and is full of atrocities. Iraqis have murdered Americans. Americans have murdered Iraqis. Both sides have made mistakes, and will make more. Torture is unacceptable, but that wont stop it. We will all Bitch about the entire thing, long after it is over. The actions of a few, do not reflect the attiude of the whole. On either side. One thing to remember- We INVADED Iraq , most likely on what will be percieved as false pretences. They will be pissed, just as we would be. It will do nobody justice or be of any help to make matters worse by acting below civilized standards, but we will anyway, because.........That is war. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

05-06-2004, 08:08 PM	#89 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Enough of this. Let this serve as a general warning. Two members are on the edge of being banned because of this nonsense name calling. To the rest of you, you can make your points (even strong ones) POLITELY. If you cannot, there are many other boards that will allow you to flame away at each other, but TFP is NOT ONE OF THEM. -lebell __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-06-2004, 05:30 PM	#82 (permalink)
Kostya Little known... Location: Brisbane, Australia	I love it... The phrase 'mellow out' followed by some of the most brutal depressing truths of humanity's twisted little existence... :P Anyways, we should all go watch Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola eases the pain...