The Prince of Pop-Ups - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

GakFace · 05-07-2003, 09:45 AM

Saw this on MSN.. its about the guy that seemingly has started it all. His patents are finally going through and so now he wants to get money for the pop ups that are being used.

Here's the question I'm curious about. If he starts charging for the use of his pop-ups, do you think we'll see a decrease in them? or will he end up just making money as his annoying talking ones have good records?

The Prince of Pop-ups

Quote:

“I APOLOGIZE FOR being a pioneer,” Shuster said, adding he’s had to apologize many times to Internet users. Two years ago, Shuster’s XPics.com settled a lawsuit with the Federal Trade Commission that stemmed from accusations that several porn Web sites he operated were deceptively charging customers.
He still runs some porn sites, but Shuster has now turned his attention to Ideaflood Inc., an intellectual property holding firm he set up to license revenue from sites that use pop-ups and, assuming his patents go through, other advertising technology.
Shuster’s pop-up patent, known officially as the “Traffic Management Utility” patent, claims that pop-up ads account for “20 percent of the revenue of the two most profitable Internet segments,” online casinos and “adult entertainment.” In 2002, the patent claims, these two segments had revenues $9.25 billion.
Shuster wants a slice of that money.
He said he will demand licensing fees from sites which use pop-ups, but he hasn’t actually filed any patent cases yet. What Shuster hopes to do is attract investors intrigued by his pending patents, thus generating enough cash for Ideaflood to fund an effort to recoup licensing fees.
“Companies that I’ve built used this technology to become $100 million operations,” he said. “It’s used ubiquitously through this segment of the Internet.”
And others, too, he claims. Online banking sites, for example, sometimes track when users leave secure transaction areas and deliver pop-up messages saying they’ll have to log back into the system. That, too, would be covered under the “Traffic Management Utility” patent, Shuster said.

NET PATENTS HARD TO ENFORCE
Internet technology patents have so far proved difficult to enforce. In the most famous case so far, Amazon’s patent for one-click purchasing led to a two-year legal fight with Barnes & Noble. An initial court-issued injunction against Amazon was overturned, and the two companies eventually reached an out-of-court settlement.
Other high-profile patent cases are still pending, with plaintiffs both big and small. SBC Intellectual Property, a division of the telecom giant, is demanding fees from Museumtour.com over a Web navigation design patent it holds. On the other extreme, electrical engineer Thomas Woolston, founder of MercExchange, has sued eBay for infringement of online auction patents he holds. That case is currently being argued in U.S. District Court in Virginia.
There hasn’t yet been a high-profile case where a plaintiff has won big for a patent infringement, said Greg Aharonian, a patent expert who runs the Patentbust.com Web site.
Shuster does have time on his side, Aharonian said. The pop-up patent was filed in 1998, and under patent law, challengers would have to show similar technology being used prior to 1997.
“That is a bit early in Internet history,” Aharonian said. “He’s got slightly favorable timing.”
Still, given the lack of success from other Internet infringement cases, Aharonian was skeptical that Shuster would be able to turn the patent into a money-maker. Amazon’s case against Barnes & Noble was basically a wash for both firms, he pointed out, and when British Telecom tried to enforce its patent on hyperlinking by suing Prodigy Communications Corp., a U.S. federal threw the case out.

Schuster wouldn’t comment on whether or not he has sent out any copyright infringement notices, and he said that some Internet patents have been frivolous — but not his.
One-click shopping “was fairly obvious,” Shuster said, as opposed to his “more sophisticated mechanism” of doing what he calls controlling “exit traffic” and others have likened to “browser hijacking.”
“I don’t think there was anything resembling this business method when we filed for the patent in 1998,” Shuster said.
The patent is explicit, describing computer code that can “interact with the browser to modify or control one or more of the browser functions, such that the user is directed to a predesignated site or page, instead of accessing the site or page typically associated with the selected browser function.”

OTHER PATENTS IN THE WORKS
Other Shuster patents include similar technology to take control of a user’s computer and send them to unexpected Web sites.
One, called “Method, apparatus and system for directing access,” describes the use of “hidden frames” to inject javascript onto an unsuspecting user’s computer, which can later be used to send the browser to another Web site.
Shuster defended such redirections, saying they are necessary for Internet advertising to be successful. And exit traffic, he said, can be used simply to survey visitors leaving a Web page. The technology has since been abused, he said, leading to the current state of affairs — porn Web sites with endless loops that sometimes cannot be escaped until the accidental visitor turns off their computer.
“Yes, the use of this technology contributes to horrific pop-up loops that are of no value,” he said. “In my opinion, pop-up loops are in contradiction to the rights we have in this patent.” He even suggested that, armed with the patent, his firm will be able to clamp down pop-up abuse.

MORE HIJACKING METHODS
In fact, in his settlement with the FTC in 2000, Shuster said he agreed to limit the use of pop-ups on his sites. But computer consultant Richard Smith, who operates ComputerBytesMan, found other redirect technologies still in use on a porn site connected to Ideaflood.
The computer of a relative of his was recently hijacked and continually sent to a porn Web site, Smith said. The software then turned the porn site into the browser’s default home page and search page. The computer’s registry was also changed so that any time a less-than-complete Internet address was typed into the browser’s address field, the surfer was redirected to the porn site.
For example, typing in “www.hotmail.com” instead of “http://www.hotmail.com” would deliver a pop-up porn window, and then send the browser to Hotmail, making it look, Smith said, like Hotmail was advertising porn.
While the porn site was registered to Ideaflood, Shuster said it was run by a third-party group based in Russia. His business hosts some 100,000 independent Web sites, he said, adding that he had no idea what software was redirecting Web browsers to this particular site. However, Shuster said, the software as described by Smith would violate Ideaflood’s terms of service.
The porn site was pulled down after MSNBC.com’s inquiries because “some of the women looked like they may be underage,” Shuster said. He said he then filed a complaint about the site with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Shuster drew a sharp distinction between the software Smith encountered, which he said was “probably illegal,” and other forms of traffic redirection he has developed. He said pop-ups regularly generate successful leads for casino and pornography sites, and consumers do click on them.
“Obviously many people do, 20 percent of the revenue generated in this major market segment is from exit traffic,” he said, echoing claims made in his patent. The figure comes from internal company research, Shuster said.

EFFECTIVE ADVERTISING
“The reason the Internet has stalled out so badly is that advertising is a non-profitable segment,” he added. The use of “hijacked traffic” is a question of balance, Shuster said, but there has to be effective advertising so “a provider of content can make a reasonable living.”
And so Shuster is continuing to develop new aggressive advertising techniques.
One of them would force Web surfers to hear an ad from start to finish with no way for the listener to turn the ad off. Or, as the patent application states, “the Web site then delivers the audio advertisement to the user via the network in a format that precludes the user from controlling the manner of playback of the audio advertisement.”
In lab tests, the response rate to what might be called “pop-up audio” has been outstanding, Shuster said, meaning such ads may soon be interrupting plenty of Web surfers, or at least those who don’t manage to turn off their speakers fast enough.
“They will be hugely effective,” Shuster said. “I apologize in advance to everybody on the Internet who won’t be able to surf the Net in quiet anymore.”

Sun Tzu · 05-07-2003, 09:50 AM

Shuster is a shiester!!!! I hate this guy. I'm all for innovation and even creative agressive marketing, as long as its not invasive. There's enough subliminal ads and clever psychology going on around us that I feel we dont need that BS crossing into our personal spheres. He wants to get paid fine, let him. If I dont pay for the services of any company that uses his frankenstein that I dont want them popping up on my screen!

Cuball · 05-07-2003, 10:31 AM

damn popups every1 must hate them !

MikeyChalupa · 05-07-2003, 11:56 AM

THIS is the guy responsible for 50 windows popping up every time I cruise for porn? And he has the BALLS to demand payment for unleashing this shit on the net?

-Mieky

Spungfoo · 05-07-2003, 12:35 PM

I want to know how this person, the creator of the scourge of the internet, who's singlehandedly managed to piss off just about everyone who's ever been online, can look in the mirror every morning and say to himself "Yes, I have a reason to continue living."

ARTelevision · 05-07-2003, 12:48 PM

yes just read this.
I'm sorry how much I disrespect this person.
Imagine, ruining everyone's experience as he has.

I suppose knowing who he is will at least cause many to shun and shame him.

hrdwareguy · 05-07-2003, 01:23 PM

Lets see, this guy wants money bucause he figured out how to use wondow.open and keep it in the background. Whatever.

Loki · 05-07-2003, 02:15 PM

i say we cement his feet and drop him off a pier.

anyone remember how much better the 'net was before you had fifty million popups appearing every time you went to do anything?

ten bucks says that this is the guy behind online spam too =)

The_Dude · 05-07-2003, 03:33 PM

i just dont see him getting paid for this

Spanky Johnson · 05-07-2003, 07:15 PM

This points out how ridiculous the situation with software patents has gotten. It's way too easy for someone to have an idea (and many times they weren't even the first to have it, just filed the patent application first), patent it with no particular investment of resources on their part, and then wait for others to independently come up with the same idea, then show up demanding licensing fees for infringing on their patent. Redirects, exit pops ? Those are trivially easy to do, and no way should they be patentable. Of course, Amazon's 1-click ordering shouldn't have been patentable either - making a few scripted calls to a database in response to someone clicking a link - big whoop.

I think the U.S. patent system is due for a major overhaul, and two parts of the revisions should be that (1) the technology must not be trivially easy to implement and (2) the owner of the patent has to show a good faith effort to develop products (or at least useable technology) based on the patent within a certain amount of time, or lose the patent.

OK, rant over.

jets · 05-07-2003, 07:44 PM

I just realized that I surf in a proverbial bubble. I haven't encountered a pop-up in at least a year and a half. After I installed Popup cop ages ago I forgot they even existed.

Macheath · 05-08-2003, 05:54 AM

I look at all of the pop up stoppers on the market and the popularity of Mozilla for its pop up stopping. Friend of mine was in a class discussion at uni, and every single student there stopped their pop-ups.

You see other forms of invasive advertising coming along at the moment that aren't defeated by stoppers. The day both major browsers have a full popup stopping option will be the end of the popup era.

This miserable bastard seems to have missed his own bandwagon.

txd · 05-08-2003, 06:59 AM

evil person, pop ups are just a pain in the ass. Thank god for mozillas build in blocking.

Derwood · 05-08-2003, 10:27 AM

www.panicware.com

Free popup stopper for windows

Pacifier · 05-08-2003, 10:48 AM

use a "working" browser, Mozilla for example. I haven't seen a pop-up since I use it (only if i wanted something to pop-up)

phoenix1002 · 05-08-2003, 12:59 PM

Well, at least now we know who to tar and feather. Can we do that before we drop him off the bridge with the cement shoes? I mean seriously... this guy wants money for creating one of the most annoying things on the internet? Give me a break.

Have any of you (who still get popups) gotten the one for the popup ad eliminators? The irony of that cracks me up...

Spanky Johnson · 05-08-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Have any of you (who still get popups) gotten the one for the popup ad eliminators?

Yeah, along with the spam emails that say things like "Sick of deleting junk emails? Stop them forever with [whatever the product name is]".

Phaenx · 05-08-2003, 02:35 PM

I don't get very many pop-ups nowadays, my browser kills them pretty efficiently.

N!kke · 05-09-2003, 03:50 PM

I haven't seen a popup for months. Ever since I started using Camino and Safari (yup I'm on a Mac) and turned on the pop-up-killing feature. They are just gone. For PC:s Phoenix is the solution. It's mozilla based, so badly coded pages that require M$IE will sometimes not work as expected, but anyway.

05-07-2003, 09:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Shuster is a shiester!!!! I hate this guy. I'm all for innovation and even creative agressive marketing, as long as its not invasive. There's enough subliminal ads and clever psychology going on around us that I feel we dont need that BS crossing into our personal spheres. He wants to get paid fine, let him. If I dont pay for the services of any company that uses his frankenstein that I dont want them popping up on my screen! __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

05-07-2003, 10:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cuball Insane Location: Belgium	damn popups every1 must hate them ! __________________ Let's GO

05-07-2003, 12:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	yes just read this. I'm sorry how much I disrespect this person. Imagine, ruining everyone's experience as he has. I suppose knowing who he is will at least cause many to shun and shame him. __________________ create evolution

05-07-2003, 01:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
hrdwareguy "Officer, I was in fear for my life" Location: Oklahoma City	Lets see, this guy wants money bucause he figured out how to use wondow.open and keep it in the background. Whatever. __________________ Gun Control is hitting what you aim at Aim for the TFP, Donate Today

05-07-2003, 03:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i just dont see him getting paid for this __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-07-2003, 11:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	THIS is the guy responsible for 50 windows popping up every time I cruise for porn? And he has the BALLS to demand payment for unleashing this shit on the net? -Mieky

05-07-2003, 12:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Spungfoo Insane Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I want to know how this person, the creator of the scourge of the internet, who's singlehandedly managed to piss off just about everyone who's ever been online, can look in the mirror every morning and say to himself "Yes, I have a reason to continue living."

05-07-2003, 02:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
Loki Psycho Location: Drifting.	i say we cement his feet and drop him off a pier. anyone remember how much better the 'net was before you had fifty million popups appearing every time you went to do anything? ten bucks says that this is the guy behind online spam too =)

05-07-2003, 07:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
Spanky Johnson Insane	This points out how ridiculous the situation with software patents has gotten. It's way too easy for someone to have an idea (and many times they weren't even the first to have it, just filed the patent application first), patent it with no particular investment of resources on their part, and then wait for others to independently come up with the same idea, then show up demanding licensing fees for infringing on their patent. Redirects, exit pops ? Those are trivially easy to do, and no way should they be patentable. Of course, Amazon's 1-click ordering shouldn't have been patentable either - making a few scripted calls to a database in response to someone clicking a link - big whoop. I think the U.S. patent system is due for a major overhaul, and two parts of the revisions should be that (1) the technology must not be trivially easy to implement and (2) the owner of the patent has to show a good faith effort to develop products (or at least useable technology) based on the patent within a certain amount of time, or lose the patent. OK, rant over.

05-07-2003, 07:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
jets Insane	I just realized that I surf in a proverbial bubble. I haven't encountered a pop-up in at least a year and a half. After I installed Popup cop ages ago I forgot they even existed. __________________ Hey. Wasn't Me.

05-08-2003, 05:54 AM	#12 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I look at all of the pop up stoppers on the market and the popularity of Mozilla for its pop up stopping. Friend of mine was in a class discussion at uni, and every single student there stopped their pop-ups. You see other forms of invasive advertising coming along at the moment that aren't defeated by stoppers. The day both major browsers have a full popup stopping option will be the end of the popup era. This miserable bastard seems to have missed his own bandwagon.

05-08-2003, 06:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
txd Addict	evil person, pop ups are just a pain in the ass. Thank god for mozillas build in blocking.

05-08-2003, 10:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	www.panicware.com Free popup stopper for windows __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

05-08-2003, 10:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
Pacifier undead Location: Duisburg, Germany	use a "working" browser, Mozilla for example. I haven't seen a pop-up since I use it (only if i wanted something to pop-up) __________________ "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death — Albert Einstein

05-08-2003, 12:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
phoenix1002 Psycho Location: lost	Well, at least now we know who to tar and feather. Can we do that before we drop him off the bridge with the cement shoes? I mean seriously... this guy wants money for creating one of the most annoying things on the internet? Give me a break. Have any of you (who still get popups) gotten the one for the popup ad eliminators? The irony of that cracks me up... __________________ I'd rather be climbing... I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time...

05-08-2003, 02:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	I don't get very many pop-ups nowadays, my browser kills them pretty efficiently. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

05-09-2003, 03:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
N!kke Upright Location: Sweden	I haven't seen a popup for months. Ever since I started using Camino and Safari (yup I'm on a Mac) and turned on the pop-up-killing feature. They are just gone. For PC:s Phoenix is the solution. It's mozilla based, so badly coded pages that require M$IE will sometimes not work as expected, but anyway. __________________ N!kke