04-28-2004, 08:52 PM | #1 (permalink) |
BFG Builder
Location: University of Maryland
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Censorship of TFP?
I'm curious as to what the "unwritten rules" are around here as pertaining to what is and is not appropriate. I ask this because I recently had a post of mine relocating because the content brought about a "bad air" in the words of the moderator. While I hold no ire towards the moderator, I'm still curious as to the reasons behind the act of censorship.
Now I know TFP is heavily moderated to ensure mature discussion, and for the most part I find that to be a positive thing. The typical response to questions regarding policy are either "Read the FAQ" or "If you don't like it, leave." Well, I've read the Guidelines and I'd rather not leave, so I'm in a bit of a conundrum. What are the unwritten rules of TFP content, and why are those rules the way they are?
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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm. |
04-28-2004, 08:59 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Central Illinois
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I don't think there are truely any unwritten rules. I think alot of it has to do with is manors and consideration. If it seems offensive to the moderator then they have the power and right to remove it from the board. You might ask the specific moderator to elaborate on what he/she meant by "bad air"
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Your part is silent you little toad - a line from the new phantom of the opera |
04-28-2004, 11:58 PM | #4 (permalink) |
zomgomgomgomgomgomg
Location: Fauxenix, Azerona
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Hmm...if you've posted enough to earn your avatar, you've obviously read (and penned) quite a few posts.
Was your post deleted or just moved to a different forum? Without more specific info (which may not be appropriate to share) we probably can't really help you too much...most of the forums have a thourough enough set of written rules that there isn't much need for unwritten ones.
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twisted no more |
04-29-2004, 12:03 AM | #5 (permalink) |
don't ignore this-->
Location: CA
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What was your post about? was it in politics? was it deleted, or just moved?
The job of a moderator is to keep the peace, and that includes keeping the inflammatory posts to a minimum. If a moderator saw your post as creating a "bad air," he/she probably thought it was in bad taste or potentially inviting inflammatory responses. It's a judgment call, and that's the job of moderators. I'm almost tempted to move this to tilted newbies, but i won't be moving this thread.
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I am the very model of a moderator gentleman. |
04-29-2004, 12:28 AM | #7 (permalink) |
Banned
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There are no "unwritten rules" of the TFP. Everything is spelled out quite clearly and easily for everyone to understand.
Everything in life has grey areas. That's why we have the word "judgement" in our vocabulary, and that's why there are moderators (and Super Moderators, and Administrators) to use their judgement and act accordingly. The rules cover as much as humanly possible, and much of what cannot be covered is context. You can't write rules to govern context. If you find issue with something a moderator (or SuperMod/Admin) has done, PM that moderator to inquire why. If this does not satisfy you, PM a different moderator. We work as a team, and we uphold the rules and ideals this site stands for. Censorship is not the issue. We have to make decisions based on what we feel is inappropriate, based on the rules. Please PM me to discuss your personal situation further, as the general-knowledge question you posed has now been answered and left for others to see. EDIT- turns out it was a simple mistake over vague semantics. Sometimes you have to make a temporary decision to be sure your permanent one is correct. We are human, after all. Last edited by analog; 04-29-2004 at 12:49 AM.. |
04-29-2004, 05:15 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Banned
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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There are unwritten rules. I've tripped over several of them.
The rest are all written down already, I think. |
04-29-2004, 07:38 AM | #10 (permalink) | |
The Cover Doesn't Match The Book
Location: in a van down by the river
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04-29-2004, 08:42 AM | #12 (permalink) | ||
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
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04-29-2004, 09:12 AM | #14 (permalink) | |||
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Listen, all "unwritten rules" are very simple matters of respect. I couldn't even say any exist, but I suspect sometimes when something falls under a matter of the general "common sense and courtesy" rule, some users may perceive that as an "unwriten rule." Sorry, but we can't make an explicit rule for every imaginable circumstance on the board
To use a few examples (and I'm not picking on you denim, you just mentioned them)... Quote:
For example, onodrim - another super-moderator here - has been my girlfriend for 4 1/2 years. If someone were to say something inappropriate to her on TFP, you're damn right I'll take action on it. However, action would have been taken anyway, the only difference is that perhaps I would be the one taking action. Point being, if ANYONE is made uncomfortable by something someone says to them and they approach a moderator about it, action will be taken as necessary. The only difference when two people might be involved is in WHO takes the action, not the fact that action is taken. So, in other words, it doesn't matter if you know who's involved in who, it only matters that you are courteous to fellow members. Like I said, if you want clarification regarding specific circumstances, then feel free to PM me. Quote:
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So, in closing, my point is that, yes there are times (very rarely) when action might be taken on something that is not explicitly forbidden in some way or another in the rules. In those instances, a simple request or explanation of action is sent and there are no hard feelings. And then, as was the case with the instance that motivated this thread, sometimes it's just a simple matter of a misunderstanding by a mod. We all do it. The thread in question that was removed previously has already been moved back and the situation is rectified. It was off the board for less than 24 hours. I hope this makes things clear.
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Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 04-29-2004 at 10:11 AM.. |
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04-29-2004, 09:49 AM | #15 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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99% of the time, the thread is like, Quote:
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04-29-2004, 09:50 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Right Now
Location: Home
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The first rule of real censorship is don't talk about censorship. |
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04-29-2004, 10:06 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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There's an important difference here. Halx et al are not bound to allow anything at all. They're perfectly welcome, this being a private system, to withdraw and/or kick out anything and anyone for any reason at all, such as "It's Thursday" or "That shirt is NASTY!" or even "I like that shirt, so I'll remove it since I'm not worthy." That's the way life works in private life. The reason it's really only bad/nasty/evil/wrong for The Government to do similar things is that the government is supposed to be there for us. We pay for it, its purpose is, at least in theory, to do our will. For it to censor is a way for it to gain the upper hand, which would not be a good thing. I'm not explaining this well. (SecretMethod70: hey, my post could be used as a strawman, sure. No biggie.) |
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04-29-2004, 10:17 AM | #18 (permalink) |
A Real American
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If I didn't have a thread deleted here once in a while I would know I was getting too soft. Occasionally I put up something I know has a 50-50 chance of surviving over an hour. I don't do it to piss off admins or mods or even posters, but to push the boundaries a little of what is acceptable. This is the most conservative forum I come to, and I know certain things just *can't* be posted period. But occasionally I'll try to sneak in something that may end up in the mod queue or in dev/null.
Since it was made clear a while back you wouldn't be banned without several warnings within reason I'll throw something in here that I know may be a bit too sensitive to see if it will take off. So far I haven't hit the sweet spot and had one of those controversial threads remain but like I said, if my threads weren't deleted once in a while I'd be getting soft.
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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince |
04-29-2004, 10:32 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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I wasn't going to post (since the important points have been adequately covered), but this caught my eye. Folks, we're just a group of people trying to make the board run smoothly. So think what you would do in our shoes if ANY member continually pushed the boundries. What we do is we tell each other and start to watch that member to see if they are really a trouble maker, and if we have to spend a lot of time watching them, we start to ask, "Is this guy/girl really worth all the time we are spending on them?" (Remember, we are volunteers and aren't paid for the time it takes to moderate posts). So I really don't recommend this line of reasoning, because the truth is, we HAVE banned people when it just got to be too much to deal with them. The "sweet-spot" you hit might get you knocked out right out of the forum.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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04-29-2004, 10:33 AM | #20 (permalink) | |
The Griffin
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04-29-2004, 10:35 AM | #21 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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hmm... let's look at Holo's other posts....
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
04-29-2004, 10:45 AM | #22 (permalink) | |
Wehret Den Anfängen!
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Same general idea in most other forums of discussion. However, unlike the government, the hosts of these forums often don't have as their professed ethical cause those doing the discussion. This changes it from a question of ethics to one of taste or preferences. People still dislike arbitrary censorship. At the same time, there is a clear right to censor on the part of the forum hosts. What is permitted is not that which is not forbidden: while a forum you post on is not forbidden to arbitrarally censor your posts, you don't have to permit it by continueing to visit. In other words, I agree completely, and here is a bunch of other words strung together that might make it make sense to someone!
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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest. |
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04-29-2004, 11:05 AM | #23 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
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*rolls his eyes* THIS discussion again.
As always, if you have a problem, come to me. Not enough people utilize this open door.
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You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] |
04-29-2004, 11:18 AM | #25 (permalink) | |
A Real American
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I save some of the PMs I receive for deleted threads. I did a deleted thread yesterday, then I last did one back in November, then a couple in Wayside some time before that. I don't post anything I know for sure will get the axe , and rarely post things that have a 50-50 chance of living. I've been a member since v.3 and I've done maybe 6 deleted threads since joining. A couple were porn that could be led to warez (bittorrent and emule links) so discussion topics are even less. Most of the time I post things to see what ppl in this climate have to say about it. I post at a few other forums where much worse is allowed and even encouraged, but many members there dont' have the scope and insight many members here have. I don't see anything wrong with pushing boundaries occasionally as I have. I don't do it very often at all unless I really want to see what posters will say agbout the topic. I dont' just post "OMFG LooK At THIS!!@!@@#$" and post up something like tubgirl. It's always something that can be discussed. Discussing certain things that may offend or disturb others can be a good thing IMO.
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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince |
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04-29-2004, 11:34 AM | #26 (permalink) |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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I don't disagree Holo, but we have had people come to TFP with the sole purpose of seeing how far they could "push the envelope" without getting axed.
Those are the ones that give us the most headaches.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
04-29-2004, 11:48 AM | #27 (permalink) | |
A Real American
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Indeed. As a mod/admin of several forums past and present I've gotten to know trolls very well. I know what it means to have to track a user to see what they pulled while you were afk and watch for alters and crap like that. It's annoying and takes away from the fun of being a member of the board. I could post a lot more iffy things here but I know the differnece between a push and a shove so I keep it down for the most part. Looking back I've had two thread survive that I thought might be deleted, the Swastika Fonts one and the one with the cutters gallery. So yeah I pushed something sensitive that did get discussed a couple of times, and it was worth it. That's my aim if you see a thread of mine that cause you go down to Thread Options.
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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince |
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04-29-2004, 01:16 PM | #28 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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All of the moderators seem to me to be people who's outlook is quite strongly to the political right, I don't necessarily think that people are intentionally bias, but you have to bare in mind that the social perspective that informs some people's world view may be a lot different to that held by the politically conscious working class.
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
04-29-2004, 01:38 PM | #29 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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04-29-2004, 01:40 PM | #30 (permalink) | |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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To the political right of you, maybe...But other than that, I hardly consider myself " strongly to the political right". I lean rather far to the left side of politicaly moderate, as a matter of fact, given my age, and social strata.
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 04-29-2004 at 02:02 PM.. |
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04-29-2004, 01:49 PM | #32 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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But pretty much everyone is to the right of me politically!
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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas |
04-29-2004, 01:51 PM | #33 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
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Yeah.. really.. what the fuck are you talking about, SF?
I'm about as liberal as they come in most categories.
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You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] |
04-29-2004, 01:52 PM | #34 (permalink) |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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SF, sometimes I think that Marx himself was to the political right of you.
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
04-29-2004, 04:42 PM | #36 (permalink) | |
My future is coming on
Moderator Emeritus
Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France |
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04-29-2004, 04:47 PM | #37 (permalink) |
beauty in the breakdown
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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Seems like we have one of these threads about once a month. Yeah, people get moderated, but such is life. This is the one forum Ive ever been to that didnt degenerate into a flame war, and Im willing to accept that people, myself included, are going to be moderated.
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato |
04-29-2004, 06:54 PM | #39 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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04-29-2004, 10:09 PM | #40 (permalink) |
BFG Builder
Location: University of Maryland
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Okay, pretty much everything has been settled so I'll explain what happened. I posted a link to a website that was recently mentioned on SlashDot. The website was an MP3 service located in Russia, and I was curious as to what people thought about it since there are some legal ramifications to what they are doing.
The thread is now located here. A moderator temporarily deleted the thread after believing the thread was a form of site plugging. He/She/It also mentioned that MP3 and filesharing discussion brought about a "bad air" in the forums. I was curious as to what brought about this decision, and figured posting the question would bring about an interesting discussion. The moderator returned the post and apologized (which wasn't necessary, but appreciated nevertheless), and I managed to gain more insight into this community. So everybody wins. Thanks to everyone for being so helpful.
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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm. |
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censorship, tfp |
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