Buddha's image displayed on Victoria Secret bathing suit. - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Kewpie Dan · 04-26-2004, 03:32 PM

to my knowledge, if you look far back enough, any depiction of Buddha is an insult.

historically, early buddhist paintings never showed Buddha himself. there was always an iconic image to represent him, such as two footprints, or a royal parasol.

this was because Buddha worked his whole life the gain freedom from this existence, to show him was considered a disrespect to his intentions.

it has been said (and if anyone can confirm this please feel free) that Buddha himself said that (paraphrase) "if my image appears, my teachings were for naught".

the practice of painting Buddha is a relatively new one.

(i learned this in an asian art class i took last year. if it turns out i am wrong, yell at my prof, not me ;oP)

charlesesl · 04-26-2004, 06:28 PM

Typical western pop culture.
Reduce everything that is deep and profound to its shell, then heavily commercialize it.

Hanxter · 04-27-2004, 09:21 AM

<center>TITS for Allah!!!</center>

<center>

</center>

<center>Arabian wind, The needle's eye is thin, The ships of state sail on mirage,
And drown in sand, Out in no-man's land where Allah does command.

What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing;
Taste eternity the swords sing: Blues of Allah In 'sh'Allah.

They lie where they fall, There's nothing more to say,
The desert stars are bright tonight lets meet as friends,
The Flower of Islam, The Fruit of Abraham.

The thousand stories have come round to one again,
Arabian night, Our Gods pursue their fight,
What fatal flowers of darkness bloom from seeds of light.

Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah,
Let's see with our heart, These things our eyes have seen,
And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between.

Under eternity, under eternity, under eternity blue,
Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah.</center>

anti fishstick · 04-27-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StephenSa
Well, there is a Buddhist story that I think somewhat applies, I don't remember it word for word so if you know it please forgive me my mistakes and feel free to correct.
Two buddhist monks were traveling a road when they came upon a section that had been flooded by a recent rain. There they met a beautiful young woman that was distraught as she couldn't cross the water to continue her journey. Without hesitation the elder monk picked up the woman and carried her to the other side. As they they continued their jouney the younger monk started to berate his elder. He was shocked and offended that the other had broken his vows and touched a woman in such a manner! How could he possibly do such a thing?! To which the elder monk replied, " I put her down on the other side of the water are you still carrying her?"

To me this means that the enlightened don't fixate on worldly things and aren't bound by strict rules and regulations. Things come into your life and you let them go. Attaching to things is unhealthy. So as far as I am concerned, Budda on a bikini is no problem. I think the Buddha would give it a chuckle and move on.

good use of the story. i think it fits well here. after all, it is the controversy and fixation itself that is causing this 'fashion' item to be more popular. yes, religion is a product. all things have been reduced to this in the name of consumerism! i'd be more upset about capitalism.

Hanxter · 04-27-2004, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anti fishstick
religion is a product. all things have been reduced to this in the name of consumerism! i'd be more upset about capitalism.

The Archdiocese of Boston announced the sale of the Boston mansion in which former archbishop Bernard Cardinal Law lived, shown Tuesday, April 20, 2004, and 43 adjoining acres will be sold to Boston College for $99.4 million in a deal that gives the boxed-in school expansion space while providing the church with much-needed cash. Proceeds from the sale, announced Tuesday by church and school officials, will be used to pay a $90 million settlement reached last year with more than 550 victims of clergy sex abuse.

link

FaderMonkey · 04-27-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kewpie Dan
it has been said (and if anyone can confirm this please feel free) that Buddha himself said that (paraphrase) "if my image appears, my teachings were for naught".

As far as I understand this is not true. I don't have a way to prove that though. I'm pretty sure I learned in one of my meditation classes that Buddha Sakayamuni said something quite the opposite....something along the lines that images of him would take his place after he died. Like you said about your post, if anyone can confirm that please do.

Holo · 04-27-2004, 06:29 PM

you want blasphemy, you got it!

http://www.second-skin.net/details.php?item_number=200

panbert · 04-27-2004, 06:47 PM

I think you guys need to realize that this isn't happening in US, or UK etc. This is in THAILAND. A country where Buddahism & all images of Buddah are considered to be sacred.

I am not arguing whether or not people should lighten up about this type of thing in their own country. I am saying that it is very insensitive and rude to go to someone else's country and offend someone else's religion.

Thailand is one of the most hospitable countries I've been in, is it too much to ask tourists to be respectful of their host?

You have to spend some time with the locals to get a good understanding of how much they revere images of Buddha as well as portraits of their king.

I heard a story once that a group of Mormom (or was it Jehovah Witness) missionaries went to Thailand a long time ago. During a casual trip they went to visit a Buddhist temple (common tourist attraction) and one of them climbed onto the Buddha statue to take a photo. The Thais were outrageous at this display of disrepect, and ever since, that religous group has not been allowed back in to the country.

Not to say that anyone with that belief isn't allowed in, but they aren't allowed in as an official church sent missionaries. Considering how open the Thais (and Buddhists) are in general, this was a major reaction.

filtherton · 04-28-2004, 08:24 AM

The path to nirvana is through the buddha.

-Ever- · 05-04-2004, 03:00 PM

I'm not really for it. I'd hate to say I'm against it because there's about a 1 in 100 chance that someone actually respects Buddhism and wants to spread the word through images on her bathingsuit....

troit · 05-05-2004, 05:21 AM

Alright I went to the VS website -- Anyone have an image of this suit?

FaderMonkey · 05-05-2004, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Alright I went to the VS website -- Anyone have an image of this suit?

It looks like Victoria's Secret has already pulled the bikini:

http://www.nbc5i.com/money/3028635/detail.html

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO, Cali. -- Victoria's Secret Tuesday ceased selling a controversial bathing suit after fielding complaints from Buddhists who found the garment objectionable.

Offended by the bikini, which is laden with images of Buddha, Buddhists in the San Francisco area urged the company to pull the product.

In response, Victoria's Secret removed the item from its Web site, as did the company that actually manufactures the swimsuit.

"We worship those figures and I don't think that is appropriate for any company to put this in a piece of garment," Buddhist Hai Bui said. "And I think by stopping this, they have done a good thing for their own image, for their own business."

According to Hai, there are still several Web sites selling the suit, though he would like them to stop as well.

eyeronic · 05-05-2004, 04:55 PM

Buddha definitely wouldn't care. Nor should good buddhists.

KellyC · 05-05-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eyeronic
Buddha definitely wouldn't care. Nor should good buddhists.

Amen! Or Ah-mi-toh-fuh.

I'm surprised VS back down this easily...maybe this thing is not worth the trouble I guess.

Hrothgar · 05-05-2004, 05:54 PM

I don't mind. I'd wear boxer shorts with a picture of Jesus on it.

04-26-2004, 03:32 PM	#41 (permalink)
Kewpie Dan powered by the souls of dead warriors Location: In the rain, dying	to my knowledge, if you look far back enough, any depiction of Buddha is an insult. historically, early buddhist paintings never showed Buddha himself. there was always an iconic image to represent him, such as two footprints, or a royal parasol. this was because Buddha worked his whole life the gain freedom from this existence, to show him was considered a disrespect to his intentions. it has been said (and if anyone can confirm this please feel free) that Buddha himself said that (paraphrase) "if my image appears, my teachings were for naught". the practice of painting Buddha is a relatively new one. (i learned this in an asian art class i took last year. if it turns out i am wrong, yell at my prof, not me ;oP) __________________ I'm so awesome I made your mom cry!

04-26-2004, 06:28 PM	#42 (permalink)
charlesesl Psycho	Typical western pop culture. Reduce everything that is deep and profound to its shell, then heavily commercialize it. __________________ It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. Dr. Viktor E. Frankl

04-27-2004, 09:21 AM	#43 (permalink)
Hanxter The Griffin	<center>TITS for Allah!!!</center> <center></center> <center>Arabian wind, The needle's eye is thin, The ships of state sail on mirage, And drown in sand, Out in no-man's land where Allah does command. What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing; Taste eternity the swords sing: Blues of Allah In 'sh'Allah. They lie where they fall, There's nothing more to say, The desert stars are bright tonight lets meet as friends, The Flower of Islam, The Fruit of Abraham. The thousand stories have come round to one again, Arabian night, Our Gods pursue their fight, What fatal flowers of darkness bloom from seeds of light. Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah, Let's see with our heart, These things our eyes have seen, And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between. Under eternity, under eternity, under eternity blue, Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah.</center>

04-27-2004, 06:29 PM	#47 (permalink)
Holo A Real American	you want blasphemy, you got it! http://www.second-skin.net/details.php?item_number=200 __________________ I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

05-04-2004, 03:00 PM	#50 (permalink)
-Ever- Junkie Location: San Francisco	I'm not really for it. I'd hate to say I'm against it because there's about a 1 in 100 chance that someone actually respects Buddhism and wants to spread the word through images on her bathingsuit.... __________________ Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster... --Acknowledge your weaknesses--

04-27-2004, 06:47 PM	#48 (permalink)
panbert Crazy	I think you guys need to realize that this isn't happening in US, or UK etc. This is in THAILAND. A country where Buddahism & all images of Buddah are considered to be sacred. I am not arguing whether or not people should lighten up about this type of thing in their own country. I am saying that it is very insensitive and rude to go to someone else's country and offend someone else's religion. Thailand is one of the most hospitable countries I've been in, is it too much to ask tourists to be respectful of their host? You have to spend some time with the locals to get a good understanding of how much they revere images of Buddha as well as portraits of their king. I heard a story once that a group of Mormom (or was it Jehovah Witness) missionaries went to Thailand a long time ago. During a casual trip they went to visit a Buddhist temple (common tourist attraction) and one of them climbed onto the Buddha statue to take a photo. The Thais were outrageous at this display of disrepect, and ever since, that religous group has not been allowed back in to the country. Not to say that anyone with that belief isn't allowed in, but they aren't allowed in as an official church sent missionaries. Considering how open the Thais (and Buddhists) are in general, this was a major reaction.

04-28-2004, 08:24 AM	#49 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	The path to nirvana is through the buddha.

05-05-2004, 05:21 AM	#51 (permalink)
troit Transfer Agent Location: NYC	Alright I went to the VS website -- Anyone have an image of this suit? __________________ I've yet to dephile myself...

05-05-2004, 04:55 PM	#53 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	Buddha definitely wouldn't care. Nor should good buddhists. __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

05-05-2004, 05:54 PM	#55 (permalink)
Hrothgar He's My Girl Location: The Champagne Douche	I don't mind. I'd wear boxer shorts with a picture of Jesus on it. __________________ The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar.