ARTelevision

Smacking ban

from: C4 NEWS, UK
05.04.03

The pressure to spare the rod heightened today when the government unveiled new rules banning childminders from smacking children - even with parents' permission.

Parents who still believe in a short sharp shock will still be able to smack with impunity - despite pressure from the UN and child welfare groups.

Today's changes - brought in after a concerted campaign by child charities - bring childminders into line with nursery staff and teachers.

The new ban will come into effect in the autumn - stopping England's 70,000 or so registered childminders from hitting kids under eight in their care - and from smoking in front of them too.

Wales has already banned the practice. The Scottish Executive has tried - and failed - to ban the smacking of children under three. Ministers say today's move closes a loophole in the law. Smacking is already banned in eight European countries.

But the UN wants Britain to go further - and extend the ban to parents. That would put Tony Blair in a difficult position. He's admitted to smacking his own kids in the past - as has the Archbishop of Canterbury. Child charities though welcomed the childminder ban as a good first step.

The only criticism today came from pro-family groups, who said the new laws undermined parents, and stopped them from raising children according to their own views.

................

My comment:

The more disciplinary options are reduced - the less discipline there is.

Your thoughts and feelings?

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Reese

Just wait until they turn 9 and smack the hell out of them for each time they screwed up before.

I think this law is going a little far is telling parents how to raise children.

I think the last statement is true, it stops people from raising their children according to their views.

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wraithhibn

I guess they get more worthless options like "Time Out". I was spanked as a child, and it hasnt done anything negative to me.

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Phaenx

The UN needs to take a hike. Preferably a long one, along a short pier. My brother and his wife decided not to hit their kids, and it worked out until they had a kid that didn't respond well to other disciplinary actions. Course, the UN wouldn't know crap about that.

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Empty_One

I have to agree with you. I am totally against beating children of course, but a little smack on the butt or hand used as shock value is fine. When this is done, it is not done to cause pain, but to show disappointment.

rs8001

I have many mixed thoughts on this. I was spanked by my parents now and again when I was little. I'm pretty sure I deseved it every time. Not a big deal.

It can get messy quick though. Where is the line between discipline and child abuse? Also, I had a couple teachers that I would not trust to met out corporal punishment. (I bet some on this board could share some crazy nun experiences.) I totally agree with Art's statement: "The more disciplinary options are reduced - the less discipline there is." However, I'd rather schools stay away from corporal punishment. I'd rather just give public schools the ability to kick students out.

In short I think it is a parents responsibility take care of these problems. It is too bad that some don't do this for whatever reason. That of course is a whole different topic.

gibber71

I think it's fine for the parents to discipline their kid's anyway they want as long as they don't go overboard.I got the 4 inch leather strap several times from my mother when I was a kid and now I define the meaning of respect. But I don't think anyone has the right to hit anyone else's kids,if that's what they mean by childminders

ARTelevision

just a note:

"...banning childminders from smacking children - even with parents' permission. "

That's a bit of overriding the wishes of the parent. Would you agree?

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krwlz

i think u summed it up nicely artelevision

billege

These attempts to regulate parenting have been around for a long time. I have not seen these well intentioned (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt) laws, acts, or guidlines help any abused child. I think the idea is to help kids stay safe from abusive parents, but these laws won't stop abusers. It will stop non-abusive parents from controlling their kids. That is somthing government does not have the right to do.

Keep your damn morals off me, and I'll keep mine off you.

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Big Julie

Hmmm....
Do I patiently explain to the 14 month old why he shouldn't play with the knobs on the stove?
Or a quick flick on the back of his hand whenever he grabs one?
Damn, that's gonna hurt when he jerks his hand outta the way, and I catch the base of my nail on the edge of something...

TheIceMan

I agree. My friends and I were on a flight to California. For 4 hours, we sat there and listened to this woman "reason" with her little son. It was horrible. She had absolutely no control or authority over him. She kept telling him, "Wait til your dad hears about this." It was so pointless. I believe that parents need to raise their kids and disciplining them is part of effective parenting. Discipline, when done quickly and consistently, is effective.

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duckduck

Fully agree with ARTelevision. Kids that young are too young to reason.

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spanky spangler

I'm a parent who tries not to smack, but i'm not convinced that the alternatives are less damaging. A smack without anger gives a simple, immediate message of disapproval (hear ya on those gas knobs, Big Julie). Psychological punishments, to have an effect, MUST have negative connotations for the child. It's up to me as the parent to select the most appropriate disciplinary tools.

Troublebot

When I was a kid and I did something stupid, say pushing my sister down a short flight of stairs, I got smacked. I quickly learned that this wasn't appropriate behavior.

In 8th grade history class at my Catholic school (what fun!) I got smacked in the back of the head with a notebook for giving the wrong answer. What did I learn? School sucks, nuns suck, the Catholic Church sucks and I'm not listening to any of them again.

There is a middle ground in discipline. I don't thing the focus should be on if or what age you should hit you child as much as why you're hitting them.

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ARTelevision

yes. a balanced approach is what works best IMO.
a smack within a loving and nurturing context is far different from a smack in the context of abuse and neglect.

Thiis is the sort of subtle and significant fine point of being human that is missed by those who would legislate our species-specific behavior.

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Cynthetiq

at least not that you can tell

Youngsters don't know how to reason nor do they understand reasoning. There are some that do, and some that don't. A blanket statement never fits all.

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hrdwareguy

Bah...the whole lot of them need to take a long walk off a short pier. Yes, I agree there is a line between abuse and discipline, for me it is a very wide line. And yes, I spank my son when he misbehaves. I don't think my 2 year old is going to understand time out (nor will he actually stand still in a time out) so I have to discipline him somehow. Before anyone gets started it's a quick swat on the butt with my hand, not lashes with a belt or anything like that.

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Charlatan

I don't believe that hitting a child solves anything.

I have raised my son to the age of 8 and half without having to resort to striking him whatsoever.

When he was younger, it did use the time out method from time to time but the most important thing when disciplining a child is to remain consistant.

Don't threaten to do something and not follow through.
Don't threaten something you can't or won't follow through on.

I found giving him a choice (where the easier choice was my way) worked well (ie here is your choice, you can either pick up your toys and we'll have supper or you can leave your toys where they are and you can go to your room for the rest of the evening). With a small child this works wonders. They don't like to be isolated.

I also find that parents who actually pay attention to their kids and spend time with them don't have to hit them.

I see too many parents propping their children in front of the TV and then going about their business. Spend time with the kids they need the attention.

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troit

I have always said this -- My parents whacked me growing up and looking forward to smacking my kids around as well...j/k, of course...

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GakFace

No single method works on everybody. When I was young, we got spanked if we needed it. We took the hint, but it never became abuse. Its different tho. Now if they achieve the final step of taking spanking out, there is one method that is needed for some children. Instead of making it illegal, I think it should be that all caretakers must ask the parents about the issue, and that it is ilegal without the parents consent AND reason why. So they can understand if its really needed or not. With that the children who respond correctly to it, still get it when needed, and those who don't.. do not. as well as a chance to catche some child abuse.

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