Micheal Moore: Do as I say, not as I do
 

I found this very interesting. He fights for the rights for American workers, then when he gets the opportunity to hire American workers he goes outside of America.

I didn't believe lots of what he said before, now, I for sure am not even going to hear his voice.

I really wouldn't call this outsourcing. He's paying a company
who will supposedly do a good job on his website. He's not
moving General Motors to China and putting 50,000 people
out of work! Hell, my cousin was in a great little website
design company, and I really don't think if they didn't get a job
(and it's not like they'd know in advance anyway,) that they'd go
out of business... I don't think Michael Moore's really going to be
putting companies out of work because he's not letting design his
website.

Very few people manage to consistently apply their beliefs to their own lives. Anyway I don't really see a problem with it - it's not like I'm a big Michael Moore supporter anyway.

To be honest I am struggling to see any relevance at all, to, well, anything.

what would you call it if he sent the work to Pakistan or India?

Okay, he was too good to use programmers here in the US? Fuckin' hypocrite...

That doesn't surprise me. Micheal Moore will say or do anything to bring himself attention but he doesn't really care about any of the issues he blabbers about.

it's like being perturbed if the president of the beef industry board eats chicken now and then. big deal...

...do you people expect him to comb through the history of any company he may make transactions with? If he got the host on the internet, which is only logical, the information on where a company is based isn't always as clear.

We got a saying in dutch that translates to:

If you wanna hit a dog, you're likely to find a stick.

This has only remotely to do with his beliefs or comments on the issue, yet it's just connected enough so that it'll deter alot of people.

Why is it that when somebody speaks out against things, others can't be fast enough about tearing him down and shutting him up again?

but wouldnt you expect this guy of all people to research that information. I'm not surprised this guy hung himself on his own words. Inadvertant or not.

This is exactly what outsourcing is.


As far as this article goes, who cares? I always believe in practice what you preach, but when you costs are reduced by 50%, why not go for the cheaper alternative? Besides, Canada is like our brother nation. I love my brother and would want to help him out any way I can.:)

He makes far too big of a stink to be pulling this kind of shit. He better be dotting all his I's and crossing his T's. When he makes as much fuss as he does then he better understand that he is going to be a target over the smallest of discrepancies.

He was financed by a canadian company for bowling for columbine(i don't see alot of people in post 911 wanting to fund that since hollywood was even going to edit Escape from new york for a while) so he probably got the host on a trip for financing.
Hell maybe he was paying reparations for Canadian Bacon!

This sounds like a big deal over a minor issue.

Michael Moore makes people think. He highlights inconsistencies and hypocracy with the current administration.

If you don't like him, fine.


Mr Mephisto

mr. mephisto - he does make us think but the least he can do is stand behind what he so adimently (sp) preaches. it makes his statements seem thought up instead of lived through if you know what i mean. they seem a bit hollow now thats all.

i like the fact that he brings change. sometimes what he says rubs me the wrong way but so does Ann Coulter.

Those who know Moore for a hypocrite will not be surprised.

Those that defend him will find a way to do so now.

Everyone, repeat EVERYONE, is a hypocrite.

The only person I can think of that would even come close to living entirely in line with their ideals would be Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama.

And in both cases, they too admit "straying from the path".

What's my point? Am I trying to compare Moore with the Dalai Lama and Mother Theresa? No.

My point is, it's very easy to accuse someone of being a hypocrite. No one is free from that label.


Mr Mephisto

We love you too....like a brother :D

And he hired someone to work on his website. He didn't move the internet company to Canada.

someone is really reaching to make an issue out of this....

He highlights inconsistencies and hypocrisy by example.

I don't see this as outsourcing in the same way that GM or other large industries outsource.

Did Michael Moore Industries used to have a webdesign and hosting facility in house that he then fired and replaced with cheaper foreign employees. I would say most likely not.

The fact is this is apples and oranges.

His company is a small film production company. Do you really expect him to have an in-house, full-time design and hosting facility? What small company does.

OK the fact that he didn't hire an American company might bother some of you and it does smell a bit of hypocracy.

The fact, for me anyway, is that he didn't fire or lay off existing employees to reap the economic benefits of going outside the US.

No he doesn't.

He writes books and makes TV shows and films.


How can he change US policy on gun control by example? How can he change US foreign policy and double-standards in government by example?



Mr Mephisto

He's an asshat, why do we keep giving him airtime? this is just another example.

But the difference between us and him; we're not peddling our ideals for the world to hear.

Well maybe not the world, but you are peddling your ideas. Thats why we post here. Same thing, only the scope is a little smaller.

Because thankfully you're not the one in control of the media, or someone who can tell people what books they buy.

I like him and his work. I think the reason there's so much animosity towards him from the Right is that his comments cut a little bit too close to the bone for their liking.

Who is "we"? Don't include me in your sweeping generalizations, thank you very much.

And if you mean America by "we", then the majority of the world feels differently. :)

Of course, you probably don't care...

:)


Mr Mephisto

I do care though :) As far as controlling the media, I'm proud to be able to share my opinions with you, and listen to yours. I think it's something we're losing touch with in other forms of media.

Granted I was a little (read: very) broad in my point, but what I'm trying to say is, if you voice your ideas in public you should be prepared to support your ideas. Especially if you are on TV sharing your opinions, REGARDLESS of your political affiliation. He chose to take a stance on jobs going overseas, then he goes to Canada for web hosing and design.

Granted it's not outsourcing and it is borderline apples and oranges, but with the overabundance of tech people looking for jobs, I'm guessing he could have found someone from the states that could do the job as well.

Anyway, no matter what our feelings are, I do appreciate your view :)

Leave the guy alone. Fuck, if you dont like what he says then dont listen? You know why he is sells books? Because people like me read these forums, and then go out and buy his books to see what he is all about. And btw, I like his books, and his movie.

Yeah, well if truth be told, I tend to agree this is kinda hypocritical anyway.

I just like the way Moore rattles some people's cages!

Mr Mephisto

i dont see what the big deal is.. canada USA... its all the same.

even if he doesnt practice what he preaches, he is fighting for the rights of US workers. and its a good thing to do that

its the same as george bush complaining about saddam with WMD, we know bush has them, but because he is fighting to prevent someone else getting them, people think the fight is worth it

Not suprised in the slightest he did this.

maybe you americans should put your country in a box and stick to yourselves?

I dont see how him having a site by Canadians is outsourcing.

Hang on, his web hosting provider maintains an office in beverly hills, california.

So, i'm going to make a wild assumption here, isn't it possible that he could have had all his dealings through that company/office combo?

Does the man have to eat american food exclusively? Take only 100% american communications suppliers? All of the productions elements for his films and tv production, they have to 100% american too, huh?

Now, i'm no expert, but maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't be possible for him to keep every element of his existence 100% yank AND keep pointing out the disgusting greed and stupidity he sees all around him in his work. I mean, I may be taking the view of a simpleton here...

Again, call me a cynic if you will, but is this _at all_ important, or relevent to anything except pandering to the playground mentality of certain elements within society?

"Hey, I may well support a gun-totting, distractionary cause that I have no right to under the law, and which needlessly contributes to the slaughter of thousands of my fellow citizens every year. I may well willingly, cheerleadingly support an industry which treats human beings as inferior, slavish 'consumers' (the most hideous word in the English language at present) pumping out inane garbage 24/7 dressed up as 'cool' while simultaneously hawking and shilling all manner of needless and harmful products through cynical manipulation... - BUT THIS GUY, WHO DARES TO POINT OUT MY SATANIC SERVITUDE, RUNS HIS WEBSITE UP WITH THE PENGUIN MOLESTERS!!!!"

Can we get back to the bigger picture now?

Thanks.

penguin molester :hmm:

Alright, here's a question for those supporting Moore in this (personally I see nothing wrong with going outside the country for labor and this includes outsourcing to India, Pakistan, etc)...

Do you think Moore would ignore this if, say, Bush, or Limbaugh, or others he has a beef with did it? Wasn't there a whole load of crap about some of Bush's shirts being made overseas even though it was an error on the vendor's part? I suspect Moore probably commented on that, so why shouldn't people who feel strongly about it comment on this?

You shouldn't comment on Michael Moore because he is a wacko liberal (not that all liberals are wacko, or all wackos are liberal) and that particular combination are absolutely immune to any sort of judgement because their ideals are so saintly. Please stop attacking this poor man who only wants to do so much good in the world and is utterly selfless. Ignore the fact that he preaches high ideals and refuses to hold himself up to them, or that he endorses people just as corrupt and two-faced as himself. Only those who are right of the middle are subject to criticism, so please back off of Michael Moore, onetime2. Thank you.

Erm.... Why don't people comment on something you "suspect" MIGHT have happened?

I'll give you three guesses.


Mr Mephisto

My outside POV on this is that the man has many enemies in US and that the diversity among the people in their view on him is as diverse as there are American citizens. I doubt he dares to entrust an American company with his website since it's against the law to discriminate the emoployment of a company based on their political view. His website is very important and a hostile employee might have a little "fun" with his site just because he doesn't like the guy.
The reason he ignores it may just be because he doesn't want to be rude to an industry that has so far done nothing to rouse his attention.

A plausible theory perhaps?