Halx

First, I wanna form this thread into a discussion... not about tolerance or equality, but about PROGRESSION. I'm willing to step out and say that while I am accepting of others and their viewpoints, I in no way consider many others who think differently to be logical and that is why I make statements along the lines of "advocates of censorship are FUCKED in the HEAD!"

You may reply, "Hal, considering others to be fucked in the head is not accepting of them." SURE it is! If my best friend can be gay, if my last girlfriend could be mormon, and if I go and hang out with a girl from the ghetto, then I think this shows the very possibility that I can be accepting of people who are fucked in the head one way or another, by anyone's standards.

Moving on, it's news that Clear Channel has now 'permanently' dropped Howard Stern from all of their channels. CC may not be the one to blame, as their hand was forced by a large fine threatened by the FCC. This goes to show that our FEDERAL government is forcing their religious morals upon us.

Many of you may not like Howard Stern. I personally find him boring because my life is filled with enough debauchery to satisfy the Marquis De Sade. However, Howard Stern is an important figure in my views when it comes to liberating this country's fucking deathgrip on the Freethinker's livelyhood. He may be needlessly vulgar at times, but it's his fucking right to be so. It's also everyone else's fucking right to listen to it too.

Knowing Stern, he's not gonna back down from this, and he's probably gonna cause a big stir, and I'm waiting for it - I really am.

Moving on, regarding a recent post where some DVD players are being made with self-censoring software. Yeah, it may be someone's right to watch a movie without all the sex and violence, but we're being progressive in this thread, so I'm not OK with it. It's the very mentality that sex is bad and immoral that is infecting this damn country.

Don't like my view?
So call it hypocritical. Call it self-serving. All I see is a population stuck on morals as if they were.. *gasp* divine law. I could go on about how that's all crap, but this rant would make you miss your next doctor's appointment. The reigning line of logic I see to combat these unbearable morals is simply... look east! Many millions of people in Europe live without such restrictions and they lead happy, healthy lives. Divine law is not crushing them to smithereens because they have billboards that display nipples, or even hardcore sex on daytime television. Get over your stupid fucking divine law and morals.

This is the 21st century! My mind and my body have caught up with the times. Have yours?

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

sixate

Can't add anything to what you said. I doubt I could agree more.
I could also go into a rant and cuss and swear about the shit that bothers me, but nobody wants to hear it anyway because somehow what I have to say has less meaning because I choose to be more vulgar than you.

grumpyolddude

Excellent, Hal! But I believe that you are preaching to the choir, here.

The entire over-reaction by the FCC since Janet Jackson's Super Bowl extravaganza is quite disappointing. And while Howard Stern is a boring one-note non-entertainer, his employers and affiliates should be raising unholy hell concerning the first ammendment, equal protection, and several other issues.

Clear Channel is gutless, and the FCC is clearly out of line.

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fenton-J-Cool

I say; stop trying to be perfect. Let's evolve, let the chips fall where they may.

Good rant, Hal.

__________________
wra

JStrider

yah i found it lame that clear channel is dropping stern due to pressure from the fcc...

all the censorship is really lame... you dont like it... change the channel, turn off the radio... but dont make it impossible for me to view it...

__________________
-=JStrider=-

~Clatto Verata Nicto

Zello

I agree that censorship is ridiculous. However, regarding the DVD players, I think they could be great. If people don't want to see or hear such trivial things, more power to them. It doesn't hurt me. I even think more tools for censorship should be implemented as long as they are by CHOICE. Then one day I may be able to watch what I want without someone taking it away because they dont want their kids to see it. Then we wouldn't need to discuss this Howard Stern ordeal.

__________________
Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own list.

Halx

Zello, that's one way to think about it.. but in actuality, humans are always going to feel the need to impose their will upon others. One side has to win out and that's why we gotta stand up and take action for what we believe in.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

GuttersnipeXL

Ah, the reason for so many of the worlds problems. If people would just mind their own business...
Does anyone feel like they want to move to some deserted island, somewhere big brother isn't watching? Or perhaps you feel like standing up to the oppresors by making your voice heard? I lean towards the island, but first I really have something to say.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. HST

tisonlyi

Who was it that said, just because politics is dominated by majority voting, that doesn't mean that the majority have the right to dictate their views to the minorities.

I blame baby boomers. The sooner these '45 to '60 born arseholes - and their parents - shuffle off this mortal coil, the better.

Yes, these are our parents and grandparents, we love them, but the way they think and behave _en-masse_ is fucked up - and there's too many of the fuckers for them to be outvoted anytime soon. Maybe, just maybe, by the time I hit 45 (if i/we make it that far) enough of them will be gone such that those who are left can start pushing society towards a path of evolutionary thought, instead of trying to hark back to the good old days before anyone knew what to do with their gonads, or that drugs other than tobacco and alcohol could be taken to expand your awareness - should you choose.

I'l stop my rant here.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

Halx

Well you either chose to a) get out of Dodge, b) succumb to the will of your leader, c) find a new leader.

It's as simple as that. Except here.. you don't get option c on the TFP

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Astrocloud

This trend towards censorship is very disturbing. There are numerous fronts on which the freedom squelchers are moving in.

I am absolutely disgusted by the way that presidential protestors are herded into chain link "mini-prisons" for the duration of their protests.




All done protesting? We'll let you back into society... Wouldn't want you to harm anybody with that free speech.

Prince

My concern with the invention of such devices is that quite possibly, somewhere down the road, with things "progressing" as they are, these said devices could be the only ones of their kind that you can buy.

Extreme? Maybe. But it bothers me that I have to go out of my way in some cases to buy European audio CDs just so I can listen to unedited original versions of some songs. I mean, seriously. Don't want to hear about "fuck" and "bitch"? Then put the 2pac away and stick to your Michael Bolton, and leave me with the right to CHOOSE.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

MooseMan3000

Ghaaogihioeghioeghihadvihecgkleguiwrliquegtityv786y37894

Fuck. I agree with you completely, Hal.

But just reading about this shit, and thinking about what's going on in the United States (I'm a citizen, going to school in Canada) makes me just ricidulously angry. And scared. Very, very scared. Censorship is making great leaps and bounds while freedom of expression is falling by the wayside. Sorry, I'm inarticulate and sort of frothing at the mouth right now.

Skettios

I don't want to make this political, but...

When you have a conservative in power, who is a 'devout' Christian, and believes in conservative morals, we're going to get censorship.

To make this post a-political I should say that it would be the same way if Lieberman was in power.

Anyway, if you don't want censorship, and for me this is a bigger issue than gay marriage or anything... then vote for someone who doesn't believe in it.

__________________
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Poloboy

The DVD players are fine in my opinion,but like Hal said, it's the principle they stand for that's bullshit. The players are tackling what censor-supporters perceive to be the problem in completely the wrong way. Stop trying to change the content of movies, tv shows, billboards, and music. It can't be done. The choice is always there to change the channel. Frankly, it's stupid to try to change the music and the culture of a society. Exercise the choice to watch a different movie, or listen to a different song. Don't tell the artist that their art is "wrong".

The argument that turning a blind eye will cause more problems leading to the corruption of our youth is also bogus. A bunch of 20 year old U2 fans watching Bono say "fucking brilliant" on TV in elation will not lead to the downfall of our civilization.

The_wall

I agree with the replies so far on this thread, and would like to add that I also hate when the pro cencorship people claim that 'oh the children could be watching it'. Well when would you like them to learn what goes on in the read world? Or perhaps you would like to shelter your children forever.

__________________
"We do what we like and we like what we do!"~andrew Wk

Procrastinate now, don't put off to the last minute.

Strange Famous

It's strange that you feel that way but you have created these forums which are more heavily and politically moderated than any I have ever known.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Halx

It's not strange at all. My post should give you the idea that I like being in control of myself and my surroundings. That very notion should clear up any 'strangeness' detected in this situation.

Refer to my previous post.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

gal

I totally agree. In my part of the world there are no restrictions on the use of curse words. On the old folks channels you don't hear the hosts cursing although guests and interview objects can say whatever they like. On the channels aimed at a younger audience you can hear words as ass, dick, fuck cunt etc. and no one ever gives a shit, even though our government is from the christian party.

We do have a restriction on hardcore porn though, although it's loosening up a bit there too.

What I really don't understand is how you guys can ban cursing and sex from broadcasts, but show anything you like in movies. Aren't movies public just as radio or television? Whether you rent a movie or watch a tv show, it's your choice right?

analog

First of all, this makes me sick. I can't believe this could happen.

Second, I disagree that it could be a person's "right" to watch a movie without "all the sex and violence". Either watch the movie as it was created, or don't fucking watch it at all.

I think censorship is a terrible thing. People need to grow the fuck up and teach their kids properly, rather than depending on the TV to babysit them.

Cynthetiq

i think that the thing that EVERYONE including Halx is missing is that the FCC is fining ONLY the Clear Channel stations.

Howard Stern is also on Infinity stations as well. Clear Channel is only six markets.

Six. There are still many others, and yet the FCC has only chosen to fine THOSE markets. Why? Why is it not EVEN across the board? Where is the FEDERAL in FCC?

I'm not for censorship either, but, I'm more interested in FAIRNESS before censorship.

Does that mean only certain markets are protected and others are not? Does it mean that I can be cited and you not?

There's a difference between being inflammatory and trolling than just being able to present facts and allow people to make a decision for themselves.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Tophat665

Hell yeah.

I think CC should have ejected Howard Stern because he sucks, so I'm a lot less broken up about that than I probably ought to be, but in principle, you got it , Hal.

I am a little with SF on the irony thing. Amused, not aggravated, though.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Midnight_Son

"advocates of censorship are FUCKED in the HEAD!"


I call them "ass-hats"....otherwise I agree with everything you've said.....I often wonder how far this will go before the supporters wake up one day and realize that they've fucked themselves. With something like censorship…the odds are good that a grand idea will come back to bite you in the ass.

__________________
SWM, tattooed, seeks meaningful tits and beer. Enjoys biker mags, pornography, and Sunday morning walks to the liquor store. Winners of erotic hot dog eating contests given priority.

SabrinaFair

I'm against censorship, but I don't know much about the pro-censor platform. Can someone clarify a few things? Do most censor-happy people want censorship to protect THEMSELVES from violence/sex, or do they want it to protect their children from these images? Because if it's to protect the children, then I think I'm even more pissed. This culture has a child fetish, and it's sick. We put helmets on them, and shuffle them off to soccer, and keep them in a sterile, safe environment...I don't know, but does that sound like the makings of a very neurotic adult to anyone else? Granted, people can overcome how they were raised, but I think it's very important.

I dated a guy whose mom had a device on her TV to filter out the swear words. Thank GOD I never met her....just had sex on her living room floor...and her son's bedroom...and the bathroom...yeah, I'm bad.

So my point is...censorship is bad. Good post, Hal.

__________________
"With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
-Desiderata

tecoyah

This administration, and the christian morals agenda are totally (censored) . I wish I had the same (censored) rights I had when I was 18. These guys can kiss my (censored) .

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Bill O'Rights

First of all, let me say that I personally cannot stand Howard Stern. The fact that Clear Channel has taken him off of the air only means that I won't accidentally trip over his show. However, I do NOT want the decision to remove his annoying ass from the air waves to come from any governmental agency or body. I want him removed only because his ratings suck, and no sponsers can be found to support his show. I do not need the government deciding what is best for me, or for my family. I am perfectly capable of doing that for myself.

As Prince pointed out; "Don't want to hear about "fuck" and "bitch"? Then put the 2pac away and stick to your Michael Bolton, and leave me with the right to CHOOSE." I agree...to a point. If you want to listen to vulgar lyrics, that is your choice, and I most certainly do respect and support that. The only problem that I have is when it washes over into my "Michael Bolton" world. (Couldn't you have picked a better example? sheesh.) When I'm out with my family, do I not have the right to not be subjected to a barrage of vulgarity from someone's "Boom Car"? Or from just a boombox, in general, for that matter? I believe that it is a matter of time and place. I see too much crap out there that is only put out for the sheer shock value. But, to be fair, perhaps it is with good cause. If the religious right would ease up on the controls a bit, then a balance could be found. But that's not going to happen so long as you have two polar extemes shouting accross a void at one another. When they should be looking for some common ground...somewhere in between.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Astrocloud

I should also stress that when it comes to censoring Media that people find distasteful -it is not just the religious right. There are other "leftest" groups who have been challenging the right to free speech on political correctness grounds. Just look to the interesting case of Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho or read the result of the rants by Catharine A. MacKinnon for further details.

HamiC

This is not intended to make this about politics, but the reality is that the government plays a huge role in choosing to censor the airwaves. What follows is a HUGE oversimplification, but shows the limited options we have when it comes to choosing those who will decide what is decent.

I have always found it strange that one of the parties makes such a point about less governement and staying out of my wallet.....but then rushes headlong into my bedroom and other "private" matters and interactions.

The other party dives into my wallet to pay for more government, but is happy to stay out of my personal matters.

At the end of the day, I would gladly pay more taxes to get the government out of my private life. I can always make more money, but once my choices are limited and my freedoms infringed upon, it is not so easy to get them back.

If I am offended by the radio or TV, I'll turn it off, thank you. And if what I do in my private life offends, I'd ask you to kindly stay out of my private life. Seems so simple........

ARTelevision

Many good people would like to see a way that the distribution of some extreme content can be managed to be adults-only. That seems reasonable.

__________________
create evolution

Cynthetiq

YES! pay for play radio!!! XM and Siruis.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ARTelevision

Cynthetiq, exactly. Very few folks care about what adults can access.

The issue of how to manage what is accessible by children is a real one. It would seem that a response to refashioning notions of how content is made available would need to have some political viability if anything is to actually change for the betterment of everyone.

__________________
create evolution

moonstrucksoul

this is about politics

__________________
no signature required

Holo

The issue of accessibility to children is directly parallel to computer security ala Kevin Mitnick. The weakest link is always going to be those who hold the means to receive media and who do not accurately secure adult materials-the parents. Children cannot be blamed for their curiosity; it's the parent's job to control the flow of information their child is allowed to see. Just as Mitnick exploited people in control of systems to do most of his hacking, children get ahold of content from usecured systems (radio, tv) and get ahold of unsecured media (the Playboys under your dad's mattress) because parents do not take proper precautions to keep these things away from kids.

I agree with the self-censoring DVDs/TVs for those who wish to use it. Their freedom to protect their kids is as important as our right to be free to view those materials. Parental controls are stupid to us, but very useful for parents who don't want a weak link in the system to be exploited by their kids or their friends. Helping parents to keep adult content out of their kid's hands is a very good thing.


The religious "right" use the children to justify censorship, since they know they can't attack adults for making choices of free will without looking dumber than they already are. They know the parents are largely responsible for what their children see, hear, and read. The don't attack the parents when they can just use children as a scapegoat for censorship, sidestepping the real issue of home media security.


Simply put, if you don't want your children to see adult shit, then become a little more proactive in what your child is allowed to view. Put locks on the entertainment center. Use parental controls on your PC and standalone equipment. Log all internet traffic in case your kid knows how to delete the history and cookies. Install a keylogger on your PC if you want. Use Netnanny or a similar program. Ask the parents of your child's friends with if they use similar measures to censor content, and don't allow your child to go to their home if they don't. Don't allow your kids to see any films not rated G.

You *can* keep your children from viewing or listening to adult material in your home. It just depends on how much effort you want to put into it. You can say it's too hardcore, but these things are good for us as adults, since we can point the finger right back at the censors and say "we choose to see these things. It's YOUR job to help us to keep it out of our kid's hands, and ours to use the methods given."

In closing, I realize our culture is saturated with sexual messages and innuendo, and you can't 100% keep you child from being exposed to it. But you CAN keep them from a lot of things and take the power away from the religious "right" by taking action in your own home.

__________________
I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

ARTelevision

Yes, thanks for the personal viewpoint, Holo.

I used the term "political viability" in order to discuss the way these things get implemented as matters of public policy.

I read your view to be that there should be no public policy matter at issue here. Political realities do seem to indicate that some public pollicy will always exist as regards a society in which both minors and adults can inhabit the same community spaces.

__________________
create evolution

Holo

There should be a moral policy that is decided upon by the individual parents, not a political one. The government doesn't need to be doing our job as parents, and certainly doesn't need to be policing consenting, informed adults. Perhaps the public policy should be to prosecute those who expose children to content deemed unacceptable to their parents similar to the statutory rape laws. If the parents don't turn your daughter's bf in for fucking her at 16 when they catch them in flagrante delicto and they aren't found by an LEA officer, then he doesn't get charged with SR. Same with content offenses. If a parent find out Janie went over to and watched The Crow at Kristi's house and they informed the parent's that R rated films were unacceptable content then they can use the public policy to bring action again those parents. Otherwise, it's all good.

__________________
I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

Halx

i understood this fully.. it's still censorship

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Halx

Federal Communications Commission (FCC)

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

analog

Very well said!!

I strongly disagree. No one has the right to edit my intellectual property- that's a violation of MY rights, and MY artistic content. If the movie has inappropriate parts in it, you do not have to show them that movie. It is not their right to see it, if seeing it is inappropriate. That's why you have to be 17 or with an adult to see an R-rated film. That's why pornography is restricted to 18 and up.

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that if you teach them right from wrong with respect to foul language and adult content, then you empower them to make informed decisions about what they're seeing.

If your kid hears "fuck" in a movie and then starts using it, it's your fault for not being there to teach him why it's a bad word. Those are values that are instilled as SMALL children. Right and wrong - good and bad.

forecheck

I find it ironic that most people on this site who are against censorship cannot write a post without swearing. Is that meant as an example of what they would do without censorship?

But I suppose I cannot ask somebody to not swear when discussing something because I will be asking them to censor themselves.

It is all about respect. Does Howard Stern show respect? Do I show respect by asking somebody to not swear while talking to me? Is the person showing me respect if he/she continues to swear?

txlovely

This whole censorship issue has become overly complicated. The truth is that most of the concern lies with parents and parental control/concern for children's wellbeing. There is no substitute for a concerned and loving parent, certainly not the U.S. government. I resent my government taking away the personal responsibility I have to change the channel. It is that simple. Just because I don't care for Howard Stern doesn't mean I'm so high and mighty as to take the option of listening to him away from others.

I am more offended by spam in my e-mailbox - it is unsolicited and oftentimes offensive. Why isn't my government doing something about that instead of the things over which I have control? Over-regulation and censorship lead to nothing but the retraction of the fundamental rights we Americans hold so dear...

__________________
Cruel words erode self-esteem like the ocean eats away the shore.