sailor

As many people may (or may not know), there is a very large market in "personal protection"--essentially private armies of ex-special forces soldiers that are hired as bodyguards by people in dangerous areas--Iraq, for instance. The US army contracts with many of them, saying it is cheaper and more practical to use them for protection details, leaving soldiers to the combat. They also provide security assesments, essentially doing for physical security what white-hat hackers do for computer security: they try to infiltrate a building, attacking it just as someone trying to, for example, kidnap or kill one of the employees.

As you also may (or, again, may not) know, the four men killed in Fallujah were private contractors, with a company called Blackwater. They were contracted to guard a food convoy, but there are Blackwater employees in many other areas--Paul Bremer's bodyguards are all Blackwater employees.

What do yall think about this? I have a bit of a personal connection to this. One of my fraternity brothers, who was in the SEALs for 8 years, is working for Blackwater this summer. His preference is to work in Afghanistan, but he could be assigned to Iraq. Part of me thinks that it is a bad idea that there are these private armies with the power to act like real armies--these guys tote M4s and wear body armor, just like any other soldier. Another part of me sees that there is a pretty big need for this type of service, and it does pay well--my friend will be making almost $900 a day. Im not sure where I stand.

Below is a CNN link talking a little more about the whole thing:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...aq.contractor/

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Cynthetiq

mercenaries.... they've been doing it for years.

most americans are just shielded from such things because how often did you see militia walking down the streets before 9/11?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Superbelt

The pay for Merc's in iraq can range up to 2500 dollars a day or more.

If I was an average soldier, or especially, a National Guardsman. I would be pretty pissed off to know I am risking my life there involuntarially for around 8-9 k a year when these guys are being paid by our government the same amount in just one week.

Lebell

Uh,

Those guys are former soldiers who have already paid their dues.

So long as they aren't breaking any laws in their activities, I don't have a problem with them.

And most of the Blackwater guys are contracting with private companies.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

tisonlyi

Mercenaries also have the disadvantage of not being covered by the geneva convention in any conflicts...

Not that i think that applies in iraq so much, but...

For the risk they take, their pay is commensurate.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

filtherton

Does that mean that they are unlawful combatants?

sailor

Yeah, all of these guys have spent a good long time in the military before. They also have skill sets that your average soldier doesnt have. A National Guardsmen isnt exactly going to have experience with personal protection.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

BigGov

These aren't your average soldier, these guys are ex-SEALs, ex-Delta Force, ex-SAS, ex-[Name of the best of the best for country X], and they probably aren't being paid for doing simple guard work.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Sparhawk

I think as long as they aren't doing duties handled by the real military (like going out on raids, making arrests, etc) then I see no real conflict. I also don't think mercenary is the most appropriate term, because I haven't heard an instance of them being used as soldiers (fighting/engaging the enemy).

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

BigGov

Thats because the media doesn't even cover Iraqi deaths.

Hey, if that's what it takes to get rid of the resistance, I couldn't care less.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

NotMinus

so why aren't these people tried of murder or self defence using lethal force? when did we as citizens have the right to kill? the rules of engagments for civilians only authorize deadly force when neccisary and are usually determined during court room procedings.

moonstrucksoul

so the military is like an apprenticeship. when they get ou they can do the same thing, if their balls are big enough.

what makes them mercs is that they WERE soldiers, not because they act like soldiers.

__________________
no signature required

Sparhawk

But they aren't doing any fighting, beyond the scope of defending themselves and their cargo/protectee. Now, if I start hearing about the Dyncorp Fifth Corps surrounding Najaf while the Blackwater Air Wing provides air cover, then I'll agree with you.

On the other side of the coin, I don't buy the labelling of the Iraqis killing American soldiers as terrorists. They are guerrillas. Now, those Iraqis that are targeting civilians, sure, they are terrorists, but I don't think you can necessarily lump them into the same bunch (like lumping together our US soldiers and Blackwater contractors).

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

sailor

Ill ask the guy and find out.

My first thought is that because they mainly operate in third world countries, it isnt an issue. I know, for example, that when on protection detail in the states, they cant carry anymore than a handgun, which any civilian can carry with the proper license. I dont know though, I will find out.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato