guthmund

Why can't you do both?

Why is it so far fetched to combine the two polarizing opinions into one viable solution?

It's obvious that this kid has some problems. It would advantageous to his family to figure out why he does what he does. I don't advocate doping the kid up; that seems to be the fix-all solution to every parental problem nowadays. However, some sort of therapy might not be bad for this kid. Get him to talk it out.

That being said. He also needs to learn there are consequences to his actions. Nobody seems to be stepping up to teach little Bubba that hitting people is wrong and because it's wrong it merits consequences when done. You don't have to beat the shit out Bubba to get your point across. You just have to show him that he's not the biggest, baddest asshole on the block. You don't have to break the boy's spirit, but he needs to learn that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

Luki

Sadly, a few days after this our older brother came over and was giving Bubba pointers on what to do and how not to get caught. Getting Bubba into a counselor would be wonderful, except: I can't do anything but suggest and my mother is slowly reverting back to her old self(long story). She no longer seems to be able to use discipline on him and her grasp on her own rights and wrongs is becoming strange(and no it's not just what I posted about a short time ago, things are slowly getting worse), things are changing again, this time for the worst.

I feel like I can do nothing now, I have suggested to his school councelor to talk to him, but no one seems to want to take the time. My mother seems lost in her own issues and cannot see what's going on. My elder brother seems to think that teaching Bubba to become just like him will help him. Unlikely.

I apologize if my reply seems bleak and somewhat hopeless, but as of recent events I can't wait to get out of here and the only one I truely fear for is my baby sister. I know Bubba has a problem, but it seems the closer I look at everyone else around me, their problems seem to get worse. And it would seem that we are back to square one in my messed up family. I'm actually begining to think that my Dad wasn't all that bad... if that tells you anything.

__________________
Your part is silent you little toad - a line from the new phantom of the opera

Redgirl

Damn Luki, your name evokes a certain irony in light of all you've said.

I have had experience with kids like this and all I can say is take the advice of getting him a mentor. Surely your mom couldn't object to a Big Brother's/Big Sister's program? It wouldn't cost anything and you could pretty much take care of facilitating it.

And my advice would be to try to spend a lot of time with him. Maybe just hanging out with him would help counter-act some of the bad influence from your older brother. Do you have a boyfriend that might be willing to help you out with him? Try to bond with him a little? Or even just a good friend who's a guy that you think would be a good influence?

__________________
Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

SixEdxMia

Maybe its too late?
Let him get a wife like me ten years from now....
Or a wife like lorriana bobbit.

Shitty rudeness,and a crappy sentence at that. Like I said,I have six brothers,Spent my whole life with them,they turned out pretty damn good.As far as the others go thats not my problem.I just had better parents then most.

And same ol same ol...you are a product of your own environment.

__________________
Honey,We're home.

denim

I don't have advice for you and your brothers. I have a suggestion for you: get some counselling. You're letting the men in your life beat you. You don't deserve that. They, and you, were clearly brought up by some kind of violent asshole and are still suffering the results of that. Said it yourself in this thread. You can't offer others assistance while you're still suffering yourself. You need the perspective of getting out of that cycle of violence in order to be able to explain it to your younger brother.


Why is that? Sounds like a piece of the whole situation: you've all been "told" over time that women aren't worth spit. They're to be beat on. You yourself seem to feel that way about yourself, or you'd have been proactive about this years ago when your older brother was beating you.

Get help for yourself first. Now.

denim

I'll bet money that Luki won't be able to do this.

Even if she talks with him, he won't listen to her. She's said that already. And beat him? She's the one, in her mind, who is supposed to be beaten. It's wrong, but that's how she was raised. And her mom isn't helping even a little bit. Aiding and abetting, I'd say, actually.

Her whole family tells her it's supposed to be this way, and you expect her to just suddenly break out? I wish it worked that way.

On the one hand, I wish I could help her. Take her out of that situation and care for her. OTOH, if I were, I'd have to expose myself to the slime that raised her, and I don't think I'd stay out of jail or maybe the grave long after that.

Ultimately, it's up to her to get help.

denim

That'd require a large hook, and what body part would you suggest piercing with it? Maybe the "pierced abdomen" would be appropriate?

IMHO, the 14 yo boy is not the main issue here. The issue here is the whole fucked up familiy situation. And it's too late to fix all of that, as it's already fractured, the older brother has moved out and is presumably carrying on like his father, no matter what Luki says, and the younger brother will turn out no different, even if he is pissed at his father for being an asshole. He'll take after him just "because" and be an asshole himself later. If he survives, that is.

The place to start, IMO, is with the woman who posted here. Luki, I'm pullin' for you. I hope you do what must be done to break out of this, get some self respect, and maybe even help your younger brother do the same later.

denim

Wasn't that Luka by Suzanne Vega?

Redgirl

You're right, Denim, about Luki needing help, too. I hope she does something for herself and her brother.

And I read Luki as pronounced lucky, which she is obviously kinda not. But now that you mention it, I'm probably wrong and it's pronounced some other way. The Luka connection is good though. I forgot how much I liked that song.

__________________
Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

cherriesue

I would try to help him figure out why he's fighting. It seems that he is either angry or feels he has something to prove (or both). I would have him talk to someone that he feels safe with...someone that he would feel comfortable enough with to be completely honest. There may be something that has happened that you aren't even aware of that he is feeling guilt or shame over.

__________________
we die only once and for such a long time

Jennteel

Anger managment classes with other therapy. Oh and perhaps one day he might get his ass whooped by a girl.

gophtc

SixEdxMia, I didnt intend to be rude, but I still don't understand your perspective. I felt something had to be said, even if at risk of sounding threatening, and therefore losing credibility to the more important things I had to say. You seem to have a very powerful, practical attitude, and I appreciate that, but I think because of that you are likely to not care what I say. That's fine, don't read any further, and things will be left as they are.

I don't know what "Its a lack of respect taught early and it may never fade." means without you explaining it.
You take a similar position as analog (actually without reading his posts carefully, I don't completely understand his.), but you believe you can supress his anger by giving him no other option. He behaves or gets beat. Is that what you mean? You statements are short and you seem to make a lot of allusions that I don't understand.

I was very confused by the following:
"Yes,But I am mom,not big brother,and if mommy isn't happy,nobodys happy. I also have six big brothers.. go figure..."
and
"Let him get a wife like me ten years from now...."
Do you mean you are able to control your kids by being hard on them and you trust that method even after being subjected to it yourself. What about the other things, it isnt as easy as that.


"Shitty rudeness,and a crappy sentence at that."

SixEdxMia, You seem to know a lot of guys that you've been around for a while and never had an effect on. But you still don't seem to be able to explain how they didnt learn respect or where they went wrong or how you think they could have turned out differently.

You make a generalization about the many ways Bubba might turn out in life. All I was asking was what patterns have you seen in these people, that would be really helpful.
And is it really that bad of sentence structure that you can't understand it?

Luki

I intend on getting help, honestly, but I can't get that going for at least another month.

As for the name it's not like lucky it's kinda like luka but with a strong I sound at the end.. it's strange, I know, just like my real name though. I'm kinda strange like that.

__________________
Your part is silent you little toad - a line from the new phantom of the opera

denim

As long as you actually go, it's good.

tangledweb

Most of the angles have been covered here by everyone involved. I wanted to reiterate that it really seems that the major problem here is lack of discipline at home. Fear of getting your ass kicked - whether by a parent or brother - has kept many a bully in check.

My nephew had anger problems similar to these when he was younger. He had no discipline at home and his parents "wanted him to be free to choose his own path" but they failed to grasp that kids need parents for a reason. They need to be shown the right way and the wrong way.
My wife and I kept the kid for a weekend at our house and when he screwed up, I punished him. When he rebelled at the 'time out' , I spanked him with a paddle. When he lashed out at me for spanking him, I grabbed him and informed him that if he stepped out of line one more time, I would show him what a REAL spanking was (and I didn't elaborate). He pouted for a while and then realized that he was stuck. He BEHAVED, the rest of the time he was there AND on every subsequent visit.

To my knowledge, I am the only one who ever physically disciplined this child when he was young, and guess who his favorite uncle is?? His favorite uncle is the only one who showed him that they cared enough about him to whip his ass when he screwed up.

I realize that it is a pretty screwed up concept but it isn't the 'ass kicking' that gets through to them, it is the fact that you care enough about them to try and help 'fix' them. Or maybe it is that they got your attention and you responded. Either way, doing nothing is just fueling the fire.

And DO NOT teach him martial arts!! He doesn't need help in learning how to be a better fighter. Martial Arts discipline only sticks if the student is receptive to it.

gophtc

Ok, but you admit there are more important things than just keeping the kid in line, right?. The stereotypical abusive father keeps his children in fear, he may love them, and in some cases they may either know that now or later as an adult realize it, but that doesn't fix everything. Or what about kids who behave perfectly, but their parents are dim-wits, they go to school and do well, but they are still missing something.
Now Bubba who doesnt behave, and who you believe will never change / is on a bad path in a life / inherently bad / not able to be taught martial arts, the only way to fix him, is to to put fear in him?
Let's say he's no longer the strongest guy, he had a growth stunt, but he's still acting out, and now kids are beating on him, does this fix the problem now that he knows who's boss? Is he "good enough" to be taught martial arts now?
You treat the kid like he's a bad apple or something.

nine

Not calling him Bubba might help some.

nanofever

I guess that my views are skewed, but I feel that if a girl is seriously hitting me, not playful love taps but trying to do damage, then I get to hit back, if only to defend myself. However, It won't be a particulary nasty blow, something like a swift torso hit to simply make her stop. I think that technically makes me a feminist for treat both genders the same in this situation. That being said, The last time I got into a fight was something like first grade.

Edit: This is assuming that I haven't been too much of a jerk and the attack is somewhat without cause.

__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

grumpyolddude

Take your mother with you! From your description, she comes across as a willing victim and an enabler. If she can't be a strong, positive influence on your brother, there is little hope for him... or her.

Good luck!

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

denim

No, she needs to do this alone. If her mom wants her own therapy, it'd be a good idea, but they need to get started each on their own first.

Luki

Firstly his "name" is Bubba cuz it's what we've called him for a long time. That's his nick name, not meant to imply anything.


I'm not going to repeat myself in this reply, but maybe you should read all of what I've already said before you post.. please

__________________
Your part is silent you little toad - a line from the new phantom of the opera

nothingx

I would suggest getting him involved in a youth program that teaches respect and discipline. For example, the Boy Scouts are pretty good about instilling respect for one another. I would also suggest Civil Air Patrol or the Sea Cadet Corps.