Voluntary Human Extinction Movement - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

neo-ocelot · 03-18-2004, 08:34 AM

Hello everyone.

Has anyone of you heard of Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) ?
Here is its website:
http://www.vhemt.org
Please share your opinions with me.
Personally, I'm a VHEMT Volunteer, and agree with its statements.

Here are some additional links about incoming oil crash and human civilization downfall:

http://dieoff.org
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
http://www.oilcrash.com
http://www.peakoil.com

Cynthetiq · 03-18-2004, 08:48 AM

IMHO there's no need to actively do persue it. It's going to happen at some point in time in the future. That's just the way that it is, if we don't do it ourselves the sun will do it for us in a few million years.

noahfor · 03-18-2004, 08:48 AM

Good Idea. Infact, I came up with the same idea a while back while ranting about stuff on another site. I mention it in this jumble of words:

It's towards the end if you don't feel like reading the rest of the stuff, but it kind of builds towards it. Kind of. This was the train of thought that led to it anyway.

"I wouldn't say I have a view. Those were just my insane morning rants and rambles, although it's even earlier now and I've been up all night so I don't know if what I'm saying now is going to be anymore sane. Although I am on acid, so I have that going for me. Isn't any government a democracy. The masses always have the power. In hitler/whateverotherfuck's case the will of the people was the will of that person. When I said I was for a dictatorship what I was saying was that I think we'd be alot better if I was in charge of everything, or anyone else here. The educational system is just another tool of whoever to keep people in the dark. We pretend people are being educated history, math, blah, blah. Fuck the schools. That's how they trap people. I mean 12 years of telling kids that they need that shit to get a job so they can go buy buy buy, and by then they are done programming you, and you'll never escape. Fuck schools. Give kids some fucking books to read. Mandatory reading. That would be school enough for everybody. Fuck the seriousness of the world. Can't people just enjoy simple experience. I don't even understand how things can be the way they are. I don't think capitalism is to blame. I think it's jsut ignorance. This is just a stream of consciousness sort of thing by the way. I hate the idea of socialism. I hate the idea of trapping people into doing what is right. I have a better trap anyway. Make things so only women can have any sort of power. There, that would work out better than any complex economic system. Capitalism isn't inherently bad. It's just that it can be perverted in such a way that it gets out of control and fucking power hungry idiots with absolutly no idea of why they are here get way too much power and fuck everyone in the ass. What is the point of all this anyway. Science and things. Who gives a shit how much we understand. I mean are we on a quest to live forever, or inhabit other planets, because those are the only benefits of science. Is all this shit here to cure diseases. If not then what the fuck is it for. Let's all live in huts, and fucking enjoy what we were meant to enjoy, other people's company. Nevermind. Ignorance is the fucking problem with everything. I mean if we could smash it all to the ground and start over with the same constitution, except this time with some fucking ideas about where we are headed I think it would do just fine. Tell people who they are voting for instead of tricking people into voting, and forcing them into impotence. I seriously think a oligarchy would be the way to go. Start out with like group of just bright, good people to rule, and just keep that group in power, and have them select new people and just keep that going. It's just too hard to let people rule themselves. The psychology of it is just too complicated. You never know what kind of things can happen. People thought about the system we have now what alot of people on here think about socialism or whatever. Sorry I'm an ignoramous, but anyway. In the beginning they were just trying to set things up so people could lead good happy lives, and now look what it's become. You just can't put all your faith into something. Infact you can't put any faith into it. You have to be 100% sure things are going to work out or youre fucked. Who decides laws in a socialist government anyway? I'm sorry I feel like an ass, knowing so little about things, and having opions on them, but just bare with me. Like in socialism, why are the people going to allow gay marrige? Why will they decide drugs are legal? What will people do with criminals, and don't say there will be no crime because there will be, that's the kind of thing im talking about, faith, you have faith that there will be no crime, there will be? Even that shit can spin out of control. I mean people just have to make sure things get started off on the right foot with whatever system is being put in place. Have some consciousness. What is the point of human existence anyway. Just so people can experience? I mean why not just let everyone die, and that'll be it for humanity. Big deal. Let animals experience. joy, companionship, and such. You know there are alien planets out there where this same shit is happening, and no matter how good things get here, there are just some aliens out there experiencing some shitty shit. Maybe god should step in and fix things, but then he'd fuck up his test you know. Life, this test we are taking for god, all quadrillion of us in the universe. sorry im not trying to sound deep, im not trying to sound any sort of way, please dont get angry at me, im not arrogant, i dont think im right, im just having a hard time sleeping and i felt like communicating, so take all this with a grain of salt whatever that means."

Bill O'Rights · 03-18-2004, 08:51 AM

How is doing ourselves in, as a species, "natural selection"?
If, and when, our time, on this planet, is up...then it's up. Period. What's the point of hastening the process along? Talk about impatience...sheeesh.

Cynthetiq · 03-18-2004, 08:51 AM

woah.... need some paragraphs.

but one thing caught my eye.

Fuck schools?

I'll tell you that I see plenty of uneducated people and they don't have the ability to be critical thinkers to even understand what you wrote.

tokaok · 03-18-2004, 09:12 AM

call me crazy but for some reason i find some of the articles on that site revolting.

Halx · 03-18-2004, 11:29 AM

I completely disagree with this movement. For one, there is nothing natural/animalistic about it. The point of every living species is to continue the legacy of it's genes. Plain and simple.

bender · 03-18-2004, 11:33 AM

If this was true and the people had faith in there cause they should remember it's all about baby steps, and leading by example.

World's King · 03-18-2004, 11:35 AM

Hey...

I want my fuckin' five minutes back.

Jasmar · 03-18-2004, 11:43 AM

haha how silly. This just makes me want to waste more just to spite these people. Maybe its just me but in my opinion we have just as much right to be here as any other animal and the way we act is also up to us. Its just another experiment in evolution, eventually something will over throw us if we dont accidently do it ourselves

FaderMonkey · 03-18-2004, 12:13 PM

I definitely agree that there are way, way too many humans on this planet and that a lot of us need to stop breeding, but I don't think everyone should stop. I mean, I know you can't just say, "Okay, you guys over there are allowed to breed, but not the rest of you....stop fucking!!" I just wish a lot of people would just use some birth control a little more often.

rsl12 · 03-18-2004, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
I completely disagree with this movement. For one, there is nothing natural/animalistic about it. The point of every living species is to continue the legacy of it's genes. Plain and simple.

hal, that's like saying that the point of nuclear bombs is to devestate whole states. The fact that they can do it, that there's even a drive to make them and use them, doesn't mean that they should be used. Similarly, even though people and animals have a sex drives and biological clocks and mid-life crises that compel them to reproduce, it doesn't mean that it should be done.

FaderMonkey · 03-18-2004, 02:12 PM

I saw this on CNN.com today and thought it was related to this topic:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science....ap/index.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A detailed survey of birds and butterflies in Britain shows a population decline of 54 percent to 71 percent, a finding that suggests the world may be undergoing another major extinction.

Researchers said the study helps support the theory that the sixth big extinction in Earth's history is under way, and this one is caused by humans.

In a series of population surveys that combed virtually every square yard of England, Scotland and Wales over 40 years, more than 20,000 volunteers counted each bird, butterfly and native plant they could find. An analysis of the findings appears this week in the journal Science.

The results showed that populations of the surveyed species are in sharp decline throughout England, Wales and Scotland, with some species gone altogether.

A survey of 58 butterfly species found that some species had experienced a 71 percent population swoon since similar surveys were taken in 1970 through 1982. Some 201 bird species were tracked between 1968 and 1971, and then again from 1988 to 1991. An analysis showed that that avian population had declined by about 54 percent.

Two surveys of 1,254 native plant species showed a decrease of about 28 percent over the past 40 years.

"Population extinctions were recorded in all the main ecosystems of Britain," the authors report in Science. They suggested that the finding strengthens the hypothesis shared by many scientists that "the biological world is approaching the sixth major extinction event in its history."

Scott Miller, a biologist with the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History, said the British study was impressive and powerful because it was so thorough.

"The United Kingdom has a monitoring system [for birds, plants and wildlife] that is unmatched," Miller said. "They may not be representative of the world as a whole, but they have the best data."

He said the data supports the idea that the rise of humans over the tens of thousands of years along with climate changes are bringing on an extinction of many species and reshaping the natural world in ways that aren't thoroughly understood.

Scientists have identified five extinction events in Earth's history, with some so severe that more than 90 percent of all life forms were killed off. The last and most famous extinction was the Cretaceous-Tertiary event some 63 million years ago that killed off the dinosaurs and allowed the rise of mammals. It is thought to have been caused by an asteroid hitting Earth.

The causes of the other extinctions are not well understood. The largest ended the Permian Period some 250 million years ago. All but about 4 percent of all species disappeared then. There were three other lesser-known events in the Ordovician (435 million years ago), the Devonian (357 million years ago) and the Triassic (198 million years ago) periods.

"We are in the middle of a sixth extinction event that began about 50,000 years ago" with the expanding role in the world of human beings, said Paul S. Martin, a zoologist and geochemist at the University of Arizona in Tucson. "It's happening, but it's slower and it is not clear it will be as severe as some of the others."

Stuart Pimm, an ecologist at Duke University, said in Science that the British study results "show that we have likely underestimated the magnitude of the pending extinctions."

Miller and Martin both point to the hundreds of species, mostly large animals and birds, that already are gone, some wiped out directly through human action.

Martin said the fossil records show that the disappearance of many animals in Australia, Madagascar and North America started about the time that humans arrived at those sites. Gone from the natural North American environment, for instance, are mammoths, camels, giant sloths and saber-toothed tigers.

"For tens of millions of years there were much larger animals on this continent," said Martin. "We have to settle now for deer, antelope and bison. But there was much more" before humans came.

Miller said the most significant thing about the British study is that it makes a detailed survey of insects, specifically the butterfly, and finds that they are in decline.

"They have good evidence of an insect population decline that is at a much higher rate than assumed in the literature," said Miller. "The butterfly may be a good indicator for what is happening to the other insects. We don't even know which factors in our changing environment is affecting the insects more."

The study, conducted by a group of British scientists led by J.A. Thomas of the Natural Environment Research Council, analyzed data collected by an army of volunteers whom Pimm described in Science as "amateurs of a very high level of competence."

mr sticky · 03-18-2004, 02:21 PM

*shakes head*

I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this constructively....

*gives up*

Halx · 03-18-2004, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rsl12
hal, that's like saying that the point of nuclear bombs is to devestate whole states. The fact that they can do it, that there's even a drive to make them and use them, doesn't mean that they should be used. Similarly, even though people and animals have a sex drives and biological clocks and mid-life crises that compel them to reproduce, it doesn't mean that it should be done.

What you're arguing is only made possible through conscience. A red-back spider doesn't offer himself up to a black widow because he wants to die, he allows himself to get eaten so that he can spend more time inseminating her. All creatures follow their drive regardless of the consequences. We humans, as a whole species do the very same.

kutulu · 03-18-2004, 02:59 PM

No offense, but it's the stupidist thing I've ever heard of.

Tophat665 · 03-18-2004, 03:22 PM

Honestly, I'm with kthulhu on this one. While having kids is not the lark it's made out to be, and I am all for people who want the freedom that comes with being childless, the idea that the world would be a better place without humans is ludicrous. <b>Who would care?</b>

If I continue, I will begin to insult, so let's just leave it there, shall we?

rsl12 · 03-18-2004, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
What you're arguing is only made possible through conscience. A red-back spider doesn't offer himself up to a black widow because he wants to die, he allows himself to get eaten so that he can spend more time inseminating her. All creatures follow their drive regardless of the consequences. We humans, as a whole species do the very same.

Fair enough--if you don't have a conscience, you don't worry about such things.

spived2 · 03-18-2004, 03:51 PM

Ok, I took a look at the site just for kicks, and I just think it's the most rediculous thing. Especially after reading this paragraph:

Quote:

The notion that producing two descendants simply replaces a couple and creates no increased impact is specious. We aren't salmon - we don't spawn and die. Most of us will be around to see our progeny beget, and those begotten beget to boot.

Not a bit of sense was made with this, and I'm sure if i read the rest I could come up with a whole bunch of stupid quotes, but I have better things to do- like having 15 kids and destroying the world.

Halx · 03-18-2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rsl12
Fair enough--if you don't have a conscience, you don't worry about such things.

Now part 2 of my point, and it involves a little complicated logic.

Nature dictates our purpose as a species.
We are HERE because of nature.
We FOLLOW nature's encoded instructions within our brains.

I can only deduce that a certain amount of self-loathing is involved with someone who wholeheartedly believes in this movement. It could be depression or it could be dissociation from your humanity. To act in a fashion that defies your humanity commonly fits you under the study of abnormal psychology - you have a disorder.

There you have it. I've just labeled everyone who completely believes in this crap as 'mentally abnormal.' Note, it's not pathological or anything to be ashamed about, so don't get upset.

I just see it as a justification mechanism to harbor the general notion of "I hate my species and I refuse to mate."

Anyone care to joust?

Aletheia · 03-18-2004, 05:26 PM

I will keep living on, kthx.

Xiomar · 03-18-2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
I completely disagree with this movement. For one, there is nothing natural/animalistic about it. The point of every living species is to continue the legacy of it's genes. Plain and simple.

Quote:

Originally posted by The Original King
Hey...

I want my fuckin' five minutes back.

Quote:

Originally posted by Aletheia
I will keep living on, kthx.

They said it all.
There. Im full now.

filtherton · 03-18-2004, 07:54 PM

This remindes me of the idea that if one truly cared about saving the planet from humans, one would kill as many people as possible and then kill one's self.

Nature seems to encourage dominant species to thrive until they lose their ability to thrive. What humans do, while short-sighted and tragic, is completely natural. We are the result of nature, and consequently the world as is could not be more natural. Attribute whatever morals you want to that.

Lasereth · 03-18-2004, 08:23 PM

Hmm. I personally believe that nature already has a population-control mechanism in act. It's called homosexuals. Do they choose to be gay? No, they simply are. I honestly believe it's nature's way of population control.

My girlfriend sprung that theory on me a while back and I support it 100%!

-Lasereth

Buk · 03-18-2004, 08:43 PM

How about instead of trying to join a movement or thrust our beliefs on other people, we all just hug?

How about it?

analog · 03-18-2004, 08:48 PM

You know, i've been planning on not having kids for my entire life. I never want to have any, not ever, but this website is totally contrary to my own reasons for not doing so.

I just hate kids. I don't want to have to look after multiple people at all times of the day for the rest of my life. A woman is more than enough for me.

Call me selfish if you want, I personally don't give a shit what you wanna call it. I'd actually be interested in having someone explain how that could be- in any way, shape, or form- selfish. Hasn't happened yet, I'd like to see it done (though I know it can't).

To me- and there are tons of people who fit this description- I find the notion of having kids just to further your line is selfish- all those moms and dads who live out their unfulfilled fantasies vicariously through their children, it's sick.

On top of all that, however, is my belief in the following: nature- meaning the planet and all it's various, collective inhabitants, and who (if anyone, i.e., a "god") controls it all- will sort it out.

I'm laughing my ass off though, because I bet the religion assholes are pissing themselves over this- "first gay marriage, and now this??" lol

Quote:

Originally posted by Buk
How about instead of trying to join a movement or thrust our beliefs on other people, we all just hug?

How about it?

Movements are all well and good, so long as they don't involve the "convert to our way of thinking OR ELSE..." mentality- the "thrust our beliefs" people you mentioned.

Other than that, you rock my socks. very well put, thank you.

Skettios · 03-18-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buk
How about instead of trying to join a movement or thrust our beliefs on other people, we all just hug?

How about it?

I'm down with hugs.

Analog,

I used to hate kids, until I started teaching, and realized that kids are interesting little people. They're just like us, but with this cute innocence to them.

I look at some of the kids I teach, no dad, a young mother trying to swing it by herself. I realize I'm looking at some of the most interesting souls that will ever live.

That's why I'm not down with vehement. I've read their whole website in my own little misanthropic phase.

I realized that I like people. People do some messed up things to each other, but it is my absolute belief that if you put two people in a room for 3 days, there is a 90% chance that they'll emerge as best friends (and a 10% chance that they'll each other). It's how we're built. People like people, we're supposed to get along. It's only ignorance and narrowmindedness that turn us into enemies.

aarchaon · 03-18-2004, 11:59 PM

When its our time, we will go. Probably when we choke the Earth with poison, or nuke each other to oblivion. I personally hope that we don't kill all the animals along with ourselves. That would be sad, to say the least.

Yakk · 03-19-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Nature dictates our purpose as a species.
We are HERE because of nature.
We FOLLOW nature's encoded instructions within our brains.

Fuck nature, if you don't mind the french.

So, it was a process of Nature that resulted in us. You could say the same about Physics, lightning, hydrochemicals, or in some people's case the rapist of their mother.

You are not beholden to your cause. A rapist is evil, hydrochemicals are gooey, we don't live our life in order to equalize static charge buildup (dispite what fabric softener companies claim), Physics is a tool, and we owe Nature nothing.

Now, we have all these genes and instincts designed (through random selection, or whatever means you believe in) mostly for relatively unintelligent animals. We also have a capacity for abstract thought well beyond any other known thing in the universe. The instincts we come with are the legacy of our animal past, there is nothing holy about them. Our minds, while much rougher and less refined, are the one thing that makes us as a species unique.

I was caused by Nature. My job now is to live my life as I see fit. I'll use Nature for my own best interests, and our species should do the same.

We shouldn't be dumb about it: if we just go and destory it, we'll get what we deserve. The ecosystem is a massive life support structure, and we are cannibalizing it at disturbing rates. But, don't expect to hold up Nature's Purpose as some holy grail and expect everyone to drink from the cup.

thejoker130 · 03-19-2004, 08:42 AM

Could not find server.

But anyway, what an arrogant little species we are. A huge fuckin meteor and a couple million years of iceage couldnt destroy life on this planet what makes us think that we can? And do you really think that if nature wanted us extinct there would be thing one we could do about it?

Let life take its course, when our time on this clod of dirt is up then so be it

kutulu · 03-19-2004, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thejoker130
But anyway, what an arrogant little species we are. A huge fuckin meteor and a couple million years of iceage couldnt destroy life on this planet what makes us think that we can?

Hell, maybe the next time an asteroid meant to cause extenction to the humans comes around we'll even be able to defy that!

I want us to learn as much as possible and communicate with as many other life forms in the universe as we can.

rsl12 · 03-19-2004, 09:09 AM

The argument most people seem to have against population control is, if it feels good, do it.

I guess i'm not as hedonistic as others--conscience bothers me. You don't break the law flagrantly because you are afraid of the consequences against you. You don't go to vegas and spend your family fortune every weekend because you are afraid of the consequences to the ones you love as well as yourself. Similarly, some people don't want to cause grief to future generations of living things by reproducing what they percieve as the top of the food chain that also happens have the potential to destroy all life on earth, because they are afraid of the consequences to the idea of life, which they love. It's all a matter of where you draw the line. Hal has a point though--I think there must be a big element of self-loathing associated with wanting humans to go extinct. But that's kind of an ad hominem attack.

I'm not really for the extinction of the entire human race, but a little population control could do wonders for unemployment, standard of living, quality of the environment. Everone must see that fewer people=fewer environmental issues (unless you think the environment's not an issue at all, which is a different topic altogether). The population when I was born (about 30 years ago) was less than 4 billion--now it is over 6. By the time I'm 70, I can expect the population to be 10 billion people to be on the planet, most of them cramped up in high-rise apartment buildings and stuck in traffic all day. If you like that kind of lifestyle and you think your kids would like it too, by all means keep producing babies. I'd much rather have the population go down a bit and enjoy life more.

A more interesting (and humorous) site regarding population control is the Church of Euthanasia, whose dogma is based on 4 pillars associated with population control: suicide, canibalism, sodomy, and abortion. One of their mottos is "Save the Planet - Kill Youself"

www.churchofeuthanasia.org

rsl12 · 03-19-2004, 10:10 AM

An interesting note: it's estimated that every 4 days the human population increases by 1,000,000. Imagine this: if we wanted to keep reproducing at the same rate but keep the population at a steady 6 billion, here are a couple ways to do it:

Have an event on the scale of September 11th ninety times every day (2800 killed). If we divide the grief proprtionally between countries based on population, this would mean the US gets attacked once every 6 hours (since the US acconuts for about 5% of the global population).

Have a continuous global war on a scale 14 times greater than WWII (50 million casualties over the course of 8 years)

or we can wait until something drastic occurs, forcing the population to drop all of a sudden by an even bigger margin due to plague, megawar, pestilence, famine. on the other hand, it's way in the future, and we'll all be dead, so why worry if it doesn't affect us?

Yakk · 03-19-2004, 11:59 AM

I'm all for people joining that society. ;-)

But, more seriously, with the ideal of democracy, your say is purportional to your population. In order to increase the say of your position, you have to either convert others to agree with you, or have children and indoctrinate them in your beliefs...

The political party that breeds the most makes the decisions.

And we expect parties whose power is based on having kids to make sane decisions about how to prevent overpopulation?

Hell, each and every one of us has a dispurportione number of ancestors who chose to have children, and our parents typically try to nudge us towards thinking like them. Those of us who choose not to have as many (or any) children will be that much less effective at passing on to the next generation the idea of having less children.

It's a mess.

rsl12 · 03-19-2004, 12:18 PM

yakk: good point. actually, bf skinner argued the same thing in his utopian book Walden Two. He suggested that the best way to spread the word about his wonderful utopian society that he created was to have everyone living in it produce as many babies as possible. That way they would overwhelm with numbers. Some might argue that the success of Catholocism is due partly to their anti-birth control stance, which produces larger number of catholic babies.

On the other hand, you can take a modified hindu look at the situation--having babies is like reincarnating yourself into a new life. by not having babies, you remove yourself from the cycle of suffering and reach nirvana

Skettios · 03-19-2004, 02:57 PM

If you really had any kind of belief in voluntary human extinction, and you wanted to do something useful, you'd help build open democratic societies in poor third world countries. It's proven that open societies with enough industry and agriculture to support themselves, have populations that naturally stabilize themselves. People will naturally have fewer children, and your goal is one step closer.

kutulu · 03-19-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skettios
If you really had any kind of belief in voluntary human extinction, and you wanted to do something useful, you'd help build open democratic societies in poor third world countries. It's proven that open societies with enough industry and agriculture to support themselves, have populations that naturally stabilize themselves. People will naturally have fewer children, and your goal is one step closer.

Of course, the problem is that those people would have to do something more than just telling people not to breed.

rsl12 · 03-23-2004, 09:21 AM

kutulu: i was in peace corps, currently I'm an environmental engineer, i don't preach but I will argue if the topic is brought up like this.

Also your argument is like someone trying to get out of a speeding ticket, saying cops should have worse criminals to go after.

kutulu · 03-23-2004, 09:33 AM

IMO, it's a retarded topic and deserves a retarded sarcastic response.

SabrinaFair · 03-23-2004, 09:46 AM

Lord...how arrogant can one species be? When the Earth wants us gone, it'll kill us off. Simple as that. Why are we meddling?

03-18-2004, 08:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
neo-ocelot Banned	Voluntary Human Extinction Movement Hello everyone. Has anyone of you heard of Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) ? Here is its website: http://www.vhemt.org Please share your opinions with me. Personally, I'm a VHEMT Volunteer, and agree with its statements. Here are some additional links about incoming oil crash and human civilization downfall: http://dieoff.org http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net http://www.oilcrash.com http://www.peakoil.com

03-18-2004, 08:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	IMHO there's no need to actively do persue it. It's going to happen at some point in time in the future. That's just the way that it is, if we don't do it ourselves the sun will do it for us in a few million years. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

03-18-2004, 08:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
noahfor Addict	Good Idea. Infact, I came up with the same idea a while back while ranting about stuff on another site. I mention it in this jumble of words: It's towards the end if you don't feel like reading the rest of the stuff, but it kind of builds towards it. Kind of. This was the train of thought that led to it anyway. "I wouldn't say I have a view. Those were just my insane morning rants and rambles, although it's even earlier now and I've been up all night so I don't know if what I'm saying now is going to be anymore sane. Although I am on acid, so I have that going for me. Isn't any government a democracy. The masses always have the power. In hitler/whateverotherfuck's case the will of the people was the will of that person. When I said I was for a dictatorship what I was saying was that I think we'd be alot better if I was in charge of everything, or anyone else here. The educational system is just another tool of whoever to keep people in the dark. We pretend people are being educated history, math, blah, blah. Fuck the schools. That's how they trap people. I mean 12 years of telling kids that they need that shit to get a job so they can go buy buy buy, and by then they are done programming you, and you'll never escape. Fuck schools. Give kids some fucking books to read. Mandatory reading. That would be school enough for everybody. Fuck the seriousness of the world. Can't people just enjoy simple experience. I don't even understand how things can be the way they are. I don't think capitalism is to blame. I think it's jsut ignorance. This is just a stream of consciousness sort of thing by the way. I hate the idea of socialism. I hate the idea of trapping people into doing what is right. I have a better trap anyway. Make things so only women can have any sort of power. There, that would work out better than any complex economic system. Capitalism isn't inherently bad. It's just that it can be perverted in such a way that it gets out of control and fucking power hungry idiots with absolutly no idea of why they are here get way too much power and fuck everyone in the ass. What is the point of all this anyway. Science and things. Who gives a shit how much we understand. I mean are we on a quest to live forever, or inhabit other planets, because those are the only benefits of science. Is all this shit here to cure diseases. If not then what the fuck is it for. Let's all live in huts, and fucking enjoy what we were meant to enjoy, other people's company. Nevermind. Ignorance is the fucking problem with everything. I mean if we could smash it all to the ground and start over with the same constitution, except this time with some fucking ideas about where we are headed I think it would do just fine. Tell people who they are voting for instead of tricking people into voting, and forcing them into impotence. I seriously think a oligarchy would be the way to go. Start out with like group of just bright, good people to rule, and just keep that group in power, and have them select new people and just keep that going. It's just too hard to let people rule themselves. The psychology of it is just too complicated. You never know what kind of things can happen. People thought about the system we have now what alot of people on here think about socialism or whatever. Sorry I'm an ignoramous, but anyway. In the beginning they were just trying to set things up so people could lead good happy lives, and now look what it's become. You just can't put all your faith into something. Infact you can't put any faith into it. You have to be 100% sure things are going to work out or youre fucked. Who decides laws in a socialist government anyway? I'm sorry I feel like an ass, knowing so little about things, and having opions on them, but just bare with me. Like in socialism, why are the people going to allow gay marrige? Why will they decide drugs are legal? What will people do with criminals, and don't say there will be no crime because there will be, that's the kind of thing im talking about, faith, you have faith that there will be no crime, there will be? Even that shit can spin out of control. I mean people just have to make sure things get started off on the right foot with whatever system is being put in place. Have some consciousness. What is the point of human existence anyway. Just so people can experience? I mean why not just let everyone die, and that'll be it for humanity. Big deal. Let animals experience. joy, companionship, and such. You know there are alien planets out there where this same shit is happening, and no matter how good things get here, there are just some aliens out there experiencing some shitty shit. Maybe god should step in and fix things, but then he'd fuck up his test you know. Life, this test we are taking for god, all quadrillion of us in the universe. sorry im not trying to sound deep, im not trying to sound any sort of way, please dont get angry at me, im not arrogant, i dont think im right, im just having a hard time sleeping and i felt like communicating, so take all this with a grain of salt whatever that means." Last edited by noahfor; 03-18-2004 at 08:52 AM..

03-18-2004, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	How is doing ourselves in, as a species, "natural selection"? If, and when, our time, on this planet, is up...then it's up. Period. What's the point of hastening the process along? Talk about impatience...sheeesh. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

03-18-2004, 08:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	woah.... need some paragraphs. but one thing caught my eye. Fuck schools? I'll tell you that I see plenty of uneducated people and they don't have the ability to be critical thinkers to even understand what you wrote. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

03-18-2004, 09:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
tokaok Crazy Location: Canada	call me crazy but for some reason i find some of the articles on that site revolting.

03-18-2004, 11:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I completely disagree with this movement. For one, there is nothing natural/animalistic about it. The point of every living species is to continue the legacy of it's genes. Plain and simple. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

03-18-2004, 11:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
bender Addict Location: around the corner	If this was true and the people had faith in there cause they should remember it's all about baby steps, and leading by example.

03-18-2004, 11:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Hey... I want my fuckin' five minutes back. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

03-18-2004, 11:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	haha how silly. This just makes me want to waste more just to spite these people. Maybe its just me but in my opinion we have just as much right to be here as any other animal and the way we act is also up to us. Its just another experiment in evolution, eventually something will over throw us if we dont accidently do it ourselves

03-18-2004, 12:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
FaderMonkey Psycho Location: Orlando, FL	I definitely agree that there are way, way too many humans on this planet and that a lot of us need to stop breeding, but I don't think everyone should stop. I mean, I know you can't just say, "Okay, you guys over there are allowed to breed, but not the rest of you....stop fucking!!" I just wish a lot of people would just use some birth control a little more often.

03-18-2004, 02:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
mr sticky Psycho Location: NC	shakes head I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this constructively.... gives up __________________ The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

03-18-2004, 02:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	No offense, but it's the stupidist thing I've ever heard of.

03-18-2004, 03:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Honestly, I'm with kthulhu on this one. While having kids is not the lark it's made out to be, and I am all for people who want the freedom that comes with being childless, the idea that the world would be a better place without humans is ludicrous. <b>Who would care?</b> If I continue, I will begin to insult, so let's just leave it there, shall we? __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

03-18-2004, 05:26 PM	#21 (permalink)
Aletheia Psycho	I will keep living on, kthx.

03-18-2004, 07:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	This remindes me of the idea that if one truly cared about saving the planet from humans, one would kill as many people as possible and then kill one's self. Nature seems to encourage dominant species to thrive until they lose their ability to thrive. What humans do, while short-sighted and tragic, is completely natural. We are the result of nature, and consequently the world as is could not be more natural. Attribute whatever morals you want to that.

03-18-2004, 08:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Hmm. I personally believe that nature already has a population-control mechanism in act. It's called homosexuals. Do they choose to be gay? No, they simply are. I honestly believe it's nature's way of population control. My girlfriend sprung that theory on me a while back and I support it 100%! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

03-18-2004, 08:43 PM	#25 (permalink)
Buk Addict Location: Seattle, WA	How about instead of trying to join a movement or thrust our beliefs on other people, we all just hug? How about it?

03-18-2004, 11:59 PM	#28 (permalink)
aarchaon Insane	When its our time, we will go. Probably when we choke the Earth with poison, or nuke each other to oblivion. I personally hope that we don't kill all the animals along with ourselves. That would be sad, to say the least. __________________ Green. Yellow. Blue.

03-19-2004, 08:42 AM	#30 (permalink)
thejoker130 Insane Location: slippery rock university AKA: The left ass cheek of the world	Could not find server. But anyway, what an arrogant little species we are. A huge fuckin meteor and a couple million years of iceage couldnt destroy life on this planet what makes us think that we can? And do you really think that if nature wanted us extinct there would be thing one we could do about it? Let life take its course, when our time on this clod of dirt is up then so be it __________________ WHAT MORE CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? ------------------------------------- I like you. When the world is mine your death will be quick and painless.

03-19-2004, 09:09 AM	#32 (permalink)
rsl12 On the lam Location: northern va	The argument most people seem to have against population control is, if it feels good, do it. I guess i'm not as hedonistic as others--conscience bothers me. You don't break the law flagrantly because you are afraid of the consequences against you. You don't go to vegas and spend your family fortune every weekend because you are afraid of the consequences to the ones you love as well as yourself. Similarly, some people don't want to cause grief to future generations of living things by reproducing what they percieve as the top of the food chain that also happens have the potential to destroy all life on earth, because they are afraid of the consequences to the idea of life, which they love. It's all a matter of where you draw the line. Hal has a point though--I think there must be a big element of self-loathing associated with wanting humans to go extinct. But that's kind of an ad hominem attack. I'm not really for the extinction of the entire human race, but a little population control could do wonders for unemployment, standard of living, quality of the environment. Everone must see that fewer people=fewer environmental issues (unless you think the environment's not an issue at all, which is a different topic altogether). The population when I was born (about 30 years ago) was less than 4 billion--now it is over 6. By the time I'm 70, I can expect the population to be 10 billion people to be on the planet, most of them cramped up in high-rise apartment buildings and stuck in traffic all day. If you like that kind of lifestyle and you think your kids would like it too, by all means keep producing babies. I'd much rather have the population go down a bit and enjoy life more. A more interesting (and humorous) site regarding population control is the Church of Euthanasia, whose dogma is based on 4 pillars associated with population control: suicide, canibalism, sodomy, and abortion. One of their mottos is "Save the Planet - Kill Youself" www.churchofeuthanasia.org __________________ oh baby oh baby, i like gravy.

03-19-2004, 10:10 AM	#33 (permalink)
rsl12 On the lam Location: northern va	An interesting note: it's estimated that every 4 days the human population increases by 1,000,000. Imagine this: if we wanted to keep reproducing at the same rate but keep the population at a steady 6 billion, here are a couple ways to do it: Have an event on the scale of September 11th ninety times every day (2800 killed). If we divide the grief proprtionally between countries based on population, this would mean the US gets attacked once every 6 hours (since the US acconuts for about 5% of the global population). Have a continuous global war on a scale 14 times greater than WWII (50 million casualties over the course of 8 years) or we can wait until something drastic occurs, forcing the population to drop all of a sudden by an even bigger margin due to plague, megawar, pestilence, famine. on the other hand, it's way in the future, and we'll all be dead, so why worry if it doesn't affect us? __________________ oh baby oh baby, i like gravy. Last edited by rsl12; 03-19-2004 at 10:24 AM..

03-19-2004, 11:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	I'm all for people joining that society. ;-) But, more seriously, with the ideal of democracy, your say is purportional to your population. In order to increase the say of your position, you have to either convert others to agree with you, or have children and indoctrinate them in your beliefs... The political party that breeds the most makes the decisions. And we expect parties whose power is based on having kids to make sane decisions about how to prevent overpopulation? Hell, each and every one of us has a dispurportione number of ancestors who chose to have children, and our parents typically try to nudge us towards thinking like them. Those of us who choose not to have as many (or any) children will be that much less effective at passing on to the next generation the idea of having less children. It's a mess. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

03-19-2004, 12:18 PM	#35 (permalink)
rsl12 On the lam Location: northern va	yakk: good point. actually, bf skinner argued the same thing in his utopian book Walden Two. He suggested that the best way to spread the word about his wonderful utopian society that he created was to have everyone living in it produce as many babies as possible. That way they would overwhelm with numbers. Some might argue that the success of Catholocism is due partly to their anti-birth control stance, which produces larger number of catholic babies. On the other hand, you can take a modified hindu look at the situation--having babies is like reincarnating yourself into a new life. by not having babies, you remove yourself from the cycle of suffering and reach nirvana __________________ oh baby oh baby, i like gravy.

03-19-2004, 02:57 PM	#36 (permalink)
Skettios Condition: Stable and Improving Location: Finger on the little red button.	If you really had any kind of belief in voluntary human extinction, and you wanted to do something useful, you'd help build open democratic societies in poor third world countries. It's proven that open societies with enough industry and agriculture to support themselves, have populations that naturally stabilize themselves. People will naturally have fewer children, and your goal is one step closer. __________________ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. Frederich Nietzsche

03-23-2004, 09:21 AM	#38 (permalink)
rsl12 On the lam Location: northern va	kutulu: i was in peace corps, currently I'm an environmental engineer, i don't preach but I will argue if the topic is brought up like this. Also your argument is like someone trying to get out of a speeding ticket, saying cops should have worse criminals to go after. __________________ oh baby oh baby, i like gravy.

03-23-2004, 09:33 AM	#39 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	IMO, it's a retarded topic and deserves a retarded sarcastic response.

03-23-2004, 09:46 AM	#40 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	Lord...how arrogant can one species be? When the Earth wants us gone, it'll kill us off. Simple as that. Why are we meddling? __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata