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Old 05-04-2003, 05:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Violent lyrics linked to aggressive thoughts

Violent song lyrics increase aggression-related thoughts and emotions and could indirectly create a more hostile social environment, a study released by a United States psychology association has found.

The Washington-based American Psychological Association (APA) carried out the study, involving five experiments involving more than 500 college students.

The results are published in the May issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

The violent songs increased feelings of hostility without provocation or threat, according to the study.

It said the effect was not the result of differences in musical style, specific performing artists or arousal properties of the songs.

Even the humorous violent songs increased aggressive thoughts, the study said.

The group says the study contradicts a popular notion that listening to angry, violent music actually serves as a positive catharsis for people.

The music industry came under criticism from lawmakers in October for failing to use more descriptive parental advisory labels that specify whether the music contains sex, violence or strong language.

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has said that current CD labels give parents enough information without violating the right to free expression.

The RIAA is the trade group for the world's five big labels, including AOL Time Warner, EMI Group, Bertelsmann AG, Vivendi Universal's, Universal Music and Sony Corporation.

In response to pressure from Tipper Gore, the wife of former US vice president Al Gore, the industry agreed in 1985 to put labels on records that contain explicit sex or violence.

At the time, artists said the labels were government-sponsored censorship.

During the APA's five experiments, researchers from Iowa State University and the Texas Department of Human Services examined the effects of seven violent songs by seven artists and eight non-violent songs by seven artists.

After listening, students were given various psychological tasks to measure aggressive thoughts and feelings, including asking the participants to classify words that have both aggressive and non-aggressive meanings, like rock and stick.

Results of the experiments showed that violent songs led to more aggressive interpretations of ambiguously aggressive words and increased the relative speed with which people read aggressive versus non-aggressive words.

"Such aggression-biased interpretations can, in turn, instigate a more aggressive response, verbal or physical, than would have been emitted in a nonbiased state, thus provoking an aggressive escalatory spiral of anti-social exchanges," researcher Craig Anderson said in a statement.

While researchers said repeated exposure to violent lyrics could indirectly create a more hostile social environment, they said it was possible the effects of violent songs may last only a fairly short time.
.................

To my mind, this is obvious.
I know many people deny connections like these
but I don't see how.
We are influenced by everything we experience.
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It does seem obvious, if you listen to love songs, you will quite possibly be thinking about love, romance, sex and whatnot.
One thing that bothered me:
<i> "Such aggression-biased interpretations can, in turn, instigate a more aggressive response, verbal or physical, than would have been emitted in a nonbiased state, thus provoking an aggressive escalatory spiral of anti-social exchanges," researcher Craig Anderson said in a statement.</i>
I haven't read the study, but based on the article, he's jumping from proof that people think about violence when responding to test items to saying that people act in the real world in a violent or at least anti-social way after hearing violent music. His claim isn't supported by his evidence, unless there's more in the research paper, which there very well could be, and the article just missed it.
I still think that if violent music or movies caused people to BE violent, that we'd have vastly more violence in our society, given how many people encounter violent entertainment.
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not sure this study proves anything. If you played lullaby music and then said the word "feather," people would relate it to sleep more than not. Of course, its a bad example.

But the implication here is obviously "listening to violent music makes us more violent." I hate studies like this - OF COURSE they related words with double or triple meanings to violence after listening to violent music. This doesn't mean that they would turn around and commit a violent act. Other things are involved in that equation.

I'd look long and hard at the funding for this study.... the APA could very well be a lobbying group with a fancy name... they often throw out large sums to credible institutions to advance their cause...
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If lyrics do create hostility in people then I say most people have some weak fucking minds. All I've ever listened to is brutal hard aggressive music where the lyrics were just the same. I've never done drugs. I don't steal. I've never started a fight. I've never hit a girlfriend. I've never cheated on a girlfriend, and the list can go on. The same can be said about the movies I watch. If it's not violent and have naked chics in it I'm generally bot interested.

I think this article is either complete crap or people are weak mindless sheep. I'm leaning towards weak mindless sheep!
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sixate
If lyrics do create hostility in people then I say most people have some weak fucking minds. All I've ever listened to is brutal hard aggressive music where the lyrics were just the same. I've never done drugs. I don't steal. I've never started a fight. I've never hit a girlfriend. I've never cheated on a girlfriend, and the list can go on. The same can be said about the movies I watch. If it's not violent and have naked chics in it I'm generally bot interested.

I think this article is either complete crap or people are weak mindless sheep. I'm leaning towards weak mindless sheep!
Same here. I'm very calm, patient, and one of the most laid back people that you could ever meet. I also listen to some of the most aggressive and violent music you could hear. Same with movies. I have a ton of DVDs filled with violence.
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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All I can think of is how pissed off I used to get while playing super mario brothers. Like if I would die for the 10th time or something. Man that Do do do to do do song WAS violent...
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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my friends, sixate and spectre
yeah, OK
but you guys are NOT typical - and not typical impressionable young people.

OK - I accept your defense that you can overcome the influence...

But I'm talking about a demographic. I don't think you guys are "typical" of the demographic.

Would you respond to this point in the abstract?

Again, I'm not talking about YOU here
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think anything linked to psychology is dangerous enough.
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
my friends, sixate and spectre
yeah, OK
but you guys are NOT typical - and not typical impressionable young people.

OK - I accept your defense that you can overcome the influence...

But I'm talking about a demographic. I don't think you guys are "typical" of the demographic.

Would you respond to this point in the abstract?

Again, I'm not talking about YOU here
I know exactly what you're saying and I guess the reason I don't agree with this article is because I don't feel it applies to me. Many people will just look at the type of music I listen to and stupid things like that and expect me to do certain things likes drugs and such that I've never done. I really gets annoying.

With that said I can understand why people do that because for the most part you can tell a lot about a person by the media they expose themselves to. It comes down to self control and self esteem. I have plenty of both. Most people don't, and those are the ones who are easily influenced. I know it's hard for people around here to belive, but I'm actually quiet and very laid back. I'll always speak my mind, but I have a feeling that most people think I'm an annoying loudmouth asshole. I can be, but there's actually quite a bit more to me than that.
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
my friends, sixate and spectre
yeah, OK
but you guys are NOT typical - and not typical impressionable young people.

OK - I accept your defense that you can overcome the influence...

But I'm talking about a demographic. I don't think you guys are "typical" of the demographic.

Would you respond to this point in the abstract?

Again, I'm not talking about YOU here
ART- I am one of those impressionable youth. I started by playing games like DOOM and Rise of the Triad when I was maybe 12 or 13, and have been playing horribly violent games ever since. As for violent music, yes, I listen to Eminem, TOOL, whatever the APA considers aggressive, I'm sure.

However, I have never killed anyone, nor had thoughts about seriously doing it. I have never hurt an animal (except for hunting--but that was a one-time thing)....and I dont plan on starting it anytime soon.

You honestly want to know who would listen to violent lyrics and then go do something terrible? The people who don't know the difference between right and wrong. And for whatever purpose, they were never tought right and wrong. When noone is there to teach them, new mediums come into play telling them what is. Be it bad parenting or bad teaching/mentoring, I think that the blame should be placed on them, not the media trying to express a viewpoint.

The same could be said about the complete opposite end of the spectrum. If a "impressionable youth" listens to love music all day long, with no other input from his family/mentors, he'll probably be more sexually active....not because of bad parenting or testosterone, or what have you...but because he listened to love songs all day.
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Old 05-04-2003, 08:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Of course it would do it after they've listened to the music. Why not let them listen and have them check back in two days or so after that and see if it sticks around? Music can alter moods, but it's a short term change.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You wanna know what breeds violent thoughts?


It's always being told no and that I'm not good enough. It's being pushed and pushed till you can't fall anymore. It's the words nerd, dork, faggot, and FUCK YOU. It's people that refuse to understand what real life is...

Real life is violent thought.
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Old 05-04-2003, 10:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I guess I fit the demographic of an impressionalbe youth (at age 20), but I've listened to violent music my entire life, and in situations like the ones described by various members, I have never been influenced by music in any way, no matter what angle I look at it from. It has all been extraneous things. Also, I have been listening to ESPECIALLY violent music for the past year, and in the past year I have STOPPED drinking, and stopped taking drugs. I have never in my life gotten into a fight other than in self defense. I really don't think that the music that I listen to has ever had any influence on me as far as my actions go, and though it does trigger violent THOUGHTS, it is limited strictly to thoughts and thoughts alone.

But that's just me.
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Old 05-05-2003, 07:23 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I have to say studies like this serve no purpose except to justify the existence of psychologists.Do they have nothing better to do than to completely bullshit people by such subjectivity? If anyone is further interested in how music affects people and want to learn more about it from a musicological point of view,then go that road.Atleast the information you will be receiving (hopefully) will be prepared by people who know something about music.If this study had any validity(from the info given) it would define the first paradigm of musicology;that being that people apply their own meaning to music rather than music applying meaning to a person.Music is the catalyst;not the source of meaning.As one music writer stated after Kurt Cobain's suicide (when all the psychologist's were running around telling people there are secret messages in the music and parents should beware because kid's everywhere will start killing themselves);If Nirvana's music gave meaning to people,there would be10 million suicides.I would post a musicology essay concerning this topic I wrote in my 4th year at school but it is to long (approx. 80 pages) and to boring to exert such energies.
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Old 05-05-2003, 09:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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my $.02

Everybody is a tiny bit effected by everything, but mostly everything I read above could have been written by someone in high school. anyhow.

everything we do makes us act certain ways, but we are intelligent and have our wn minds.

I have never seen one case, not one, where there was undeniable evidence of a song making a person commit a crime. Do you think that if a kid listened to a violent song once would honestly commit a crime?

lets look at music as the kinds I see..

there is regular pop. i can see violence in pop because i'd rather commit suicide than listen to it, but that's beside the point.

heavy metal makes me feel less violent, as it gives me ways to have an emotional vent.

rap music has never made me '187 on the undercover cop'. fuck, i like some of the older rap (not very older, but not this fucking jayzee shit) like Dre and Snoop or even Ice T. I see it like the heavy music. it's a chance to vent peacefully.

i am completely against racism. some music is racists.... if a kid were influenced don't you think he already had some aggresive idea in his/her head?

i am very tired and my points are coming out sluggishly so i'm going to cut this short.


any person with a wit of iq can listen to music and catagorize it as 'reality' or 'fantasy'. there are some people who do shit then blame music.. ever hear of a crutch? and this isn't exactly the first time somebody has blamed someone else for what he did.

when i listen to music, my mood does change. no doubt. but a sliver of will power and an iq of 2 tells me to listen to something else if needed. kind of like not listening to Beck's last cd if your already sad.

its time people start taking responsibility for one's actions instead of blaming everyone else, including music and gaming.

hell, everyday jobs make me more angry, so can ban CEOs?
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sixate
If lyrics do create hostility in people then I say most people have some weak fucking minds. All I've ever listened to is brutal hard aggressive music where the lyrics were just the same. I've never done drugs. I don't steal. I've never started a fight. I've never hit a girlfriend. I've never cheated on a girlfriend, and the list can go on. The same can be said about the movies I watch. If it's not violent and have naked chics in it I'm generally bot interested.

I think this article is either complete crap or people are weak mindless sheep. I'm leaning towards weak mindless sheep!
Sixate speaks for me yet again. I grew up in a fucked up household, and I got my ass beat plenty in school since I was the smallest kid in class. On top of that, I love violent movies and especially violent music. Before I go ride my bike, I usually crank up Korn or something else to get me in that aggressive mindset, and I usually take some music with me to the gym, too.

The real problem isn't the violence in the lyrics, but the lack of self-control so many people have. I have to get hit by someone twice before I'll hit back because I don't like fighting (although, you better watch yourself if you do hit me twice!). I'm incredibly laid back, even when I have that music going through my head, because I can differentiate between violent lyrics and the need to be violent for a reason, i.e. to defend my life or someone else's.

That's a good article, Art, but I think more time needs to be spent figuring out why some people can handle their emotions while others can't, even when they come from similar backgrounds.
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:14 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I have dealt with kids for many years, latley with the
13-18 year olds. I have watched the ones that go for
the hard acid (noise) rock sounds, and the ones that
like the slower "mood" type music.
The hard rock ones go in for break dancing and dress
like gang bangers--still pretty good kids through.

The ones that like the softer music are all layed back
and gentel,,,and I belive they kind of look down on the
others

Yea, I belive what they listen to effects how they are.....
and they love to listen to the "oldies" that I have in my
tape box in the truck.....just my opinion..
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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it is the parents' job to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong. anyone who blames anything else is just making excuses
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Does music make people violent ... or is it that anytime you run into a violent person they just happen to listen to violent music? I remember when columbine happened and the news attached themselves to Marylin Manson for like 2 months just because one of the boys had a single Marylin Manson CD. Despite the fact that it was well known through friends and family that they weren't even that big of Marylin Manson fans. I believe that actully listned to KMFDM but of course the mainstream hasn't heard of KMFDM so they attacked Marylin Manson.
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sixate
If lyrics do create hostility in people then I say most people have some weak fucking minds. All I've ever listened to is brutal hard aggressive music where the lyrics were just the same. I've never done drugs. I don't steal. I've never started a fight. I've never hit a girlfriend. I've never cheated on a girlfriend, and the list can go on. The same can be said about the movies I watch. If it's not violent and have naked chics in it I'm generally bot interested.
Right on sixate!! I am the same way. I love grindcore, hardcore, death metal... all that disgusting shit. And I'd like to think that I've done OK up to this point. I don't get in trouble, I've never hurt any of my girlfriends, I don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs.... That shit is waaay too expensive, and gets you nowhere in the end. I'd much rather blow my money on stuff that I can enjoy for long periods of time, i.e. stereo equipment... Or you can go out and waste it on a quick high that will only leave you wanting more and needing to spend more and more money. The choice is rather clear to me.

Music like that is used as a scapegoat because no one wants to see the real problem/cause.... bad parenting.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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There's a difference between saying violent lyrics cause aggresive thoughts and then extrapolating that the genres of music that sterotypically contain violent lyrics ONLY contain violent lyrics and other genres NEVER contain violent lyrics.

Heck, I'll take a quote from Michael Moore here:

"I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.." - Johnny Cash

I'm trying to change my life, see I don't wanna die a sinner..." - Master P

The conclusions that campaigners always seem to reach in these cases are about as plausible as saying that only stalkers listen to The Police, or only Nazis listen to Wagner.
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Old 05-18-2003, 06:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Here is another thought that I've not seen a lot of people use-Live Free or Die. That means that even if you can blame Columbine 100% on violent lyrics, violent movies, and violent video games, it's still worth it. I will always take the consequences of free speech over the consequences of government controlled speech.

People have free will. The most they can be is influenced by popular culture. If some nut job watches Taxi Driver then shoots Reagan, is it Taxi Drivers fault? No, something was wrong with that man. Look at the kids in Colorado-of couse they listened to Marylin Manson and played violent video games-all kids do. What set them apart? They were teased. They were bullied. They hit back violently. So, it's easier for the man on the news to say in his five minute segment before commercials, "These kids listened to heavy metal and played Doom" than to say "Our society allows a certain amount of adolescant violence because it's an evolutionary way of weeding out the lesser kids. These kids were hitting back, but they crossed the lines of what is acceptable in our society." That's too ambigious. It's too scary to say we allow certain levels of violence, that we are a violent society, that what those kids did was not too far removed from what they'd endured all their school life. That might offend someone.

No, so they scapegoat it on The Matrix, Natural Born Killers, and Insane Clown Posse. That's a much simpler answer.

So, what? These are popular films, music, and video games. Is the goverment going to get involved? Is that what people want? The industry will make them as long as they are popular. They will always be popular. So, the only way is to lobby them with special interests groups, but that is a facist way of doing something; "I don't like violent videos, so I won't watch them, and I don't want anyone to have the choice of watching them either".

So, violent lyrics may lead to aggressive thoughts. In this case, the medicine is worse than the disease.
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Old 05-19-2003, 03:36 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Life is what YOU make it.

If I'm in a bad mood, playing some Vice City on PS2 always calms me down. Yes, I run around stealing cars, killing people with a wide assortment of firearms, and am actually CALMING DOWN. It works for me.

It's true that I do drive around with my stereo a little louder than may be 'acceptable' to most, but I do it to keep my mind off all of the stupid drivers on the road,(yes I do use my freakin' turn signals, why can't you??????). Call it diversion, or do some study as to why I do these things, all I know is that it works for me, and it's not because Eminem told me to do it!!
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Old 05-19-2003, 07:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The violent thoughts I get when listening to music with violent lyrics are nothing compared to the thoughts I get while listening to Sclub7.
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