Bill O'Rights

*a doff of the hat to :::OshnSoul:::*

pleased to be of your assistance.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

sipsake

Shakran

I've had the same experience. My one misunderstanding, and it was simply that, a misunderstanding, was handled very cordially and professionally by one of the mods here. In general, I find them to be a great group of people.

The only place where I diverge from your post is that, this is a community that puts a great deal of importance on fairness and respect in discussion.

There is naturally going to be a bit of suspicion and fear when 7-8 aparently good members are suddenly banned. I think it can obviously have a cooling effect on free expression when your left to ask "am I next if I disagree too strongly?"

I can't argue that it is Halx's boat. He's the captain, his word is law. But there's an implicit trust among most of us, I think, that these decisions are going to be fair. Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't necessarily make doing it right.

The open discussion in this thread is how this gets resolved. We can mourn our losses while maintaining a sense that there is some reason behind it.

I applaud Halx and the other admin/mods for being open and giving the community the chance to speak on this. Days like this are never easy.

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When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?"

Henry Rollins

forecheck

I am just trying to understand. I don't see myself as being out of line. Just part of the discussion I think. Sometimes one person says this and the other person says that. I don't call anybody names or swear.

But I suppose I pick the wrong topics. Thanks for letting me be in your good graces and only banning me for a few minutes.

If I keep in your good graces I will not converse with moderators, adminstrators or owners. I will not talk about this site and stick to the subject at hand. I will not disagree with anybody.

Thanks

Chingal0

I think maybe that just being quiet for a few will get you to where you want to be, rather then being a smartass.


I have had no discrepancies with anyone on this forum, and in light of recent events, I am totally clueless. To me, I don't really care why said people were banned, it was a judgement call by a higher-up and I personally respect that. I am going to dwindle away in the Interests forum now, so ya.

Keep up the good work Mods.

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"Eventually I became too sexy for my gym membership fee."

Bill O'Rights

Damn man, go back and read what I responded to you before. Disagree all you want. Hell, I encourage that. How else do I learn. Just...be respectfull. It's all anyone is asking.

shakran

Hey Bill'O'Rights. I think I'm about to make sense again. Better get ready for it.

I wonder why the members here think the moderators and admins are out to ban people for no good reason. Think about the consequences if they did that.

Let's say the mods were on a witch hunt and banned all those people even though the people didn't do anything wrong. Now they're gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

That's pissed a lot of people off. Some will probably leave because of it. Now THEY'RE gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

If the mods did it once, they'll probably do it again. After all, if banning people for no reason is how they get their rocks off, they're not gonna stop with one session. Nope. These guys are serial banners.

So they do it again, and the newly banned people are gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

And that pisses more people off, and they too leave, no longer contributing to the forum.

See where I'm going with this? That would imply that the staff on this forum wants to kill off the forum's user base. That doesn't make sense. If you don't want to run a forum any more, you shut it down. You don't waste time and money paying for a site that you're trying to drive everyone off from.

It simply doesn't make any logical sense that the mods/admins would do what many of you are saying they're doing, because it would in essence be comitting forum suicide.



On the other hand, let's say we have a poster who's been a pretty good poster all along, but who gets a burr under his saddle about some percieved injustice. He starts writing about it in message forums, his journal, etc, where others can see it, and he does it using inflamatory language that's guaranteed to get a rise out of some if not most people. We've all seen the news stories after hockey / football games, how the mob mentality can start with one or two people smashing a bottle and suddenly an entire riot breaks out. Same thing could happen here. More and more people read these disparaging remarks about the forum and it's administration. They start jumping on the band wagon and soon a whole inferno of anger breaks out, engulfing the board and basically destroying the community that Halx and the others have worked to build.

That old phrase "nip it in the bud" applies here.

powerclown

Couldn't express it any better than rockogre above...
Private journal = Your own blog, etc. (even then under the scrutiny of the ISP), not a public BB.

forecheck

Well, when the owner of the site says this "Judging by your posts so far, it's not hard to see how a couple mods could recognize you as an agressor."

What chance do I have. But I will shut-up about this because it isn't an acceptable topic. I have been warned, I was already kicked out for a few minutes today.

Thanks

Halx

I see a very simple out for you, forecheck. It goes by the term "learn from your mistakes."

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You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

SecretMethod70

forecheck, it has nothing to do with asking questions...I'm guessing it has something to do with statements like this:

The point is, just relax bud Paranoia tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy most of the time.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Bill O'Rights

OK, EVERYBODY LISTEN UP!!!

Good...now that I have everyone's attention, listen up...because odds are, you're not gonna ever hear this from me again.

shakran's got a handle on this.

No, really, he does. Scroll up to his last post, and read it...word for word...line for line. The man actually knows of which he speaks. Now, you will all please excuse me while I step outside to see if there is a full moon.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Astrocloud

*Doesn't really understand the rules*

Previous PM's to Mods went unanswered. *Is scared to PM more because who loves a pain-in-the-ass?*

*Probably Posts too much anyways.*

SecretMethod70

Check your PMs - I never got one from you, but I can only assume that whomever you PMed had real life get in the way of some sort.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

spectre

I was thinking the same as Secret. And don't be afraid to ask a mod a question. Part of what we do is help members with their questions.

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"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

meembo

Halx is Oz

Oz belongs to Halx

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less I say, smarter I am

Cycler

Okay here is my 2 cents again. Would that make it 4 cents sense I've posted before, anyway?<br? I pm'd the man, Hal, himself a couple of times and received replies and we know how busy he is living the life of the rock and roll star. So the rude I was ignored argument doesn't seem to hold water and Hal doesn't know me from a speck so, shrugs. <br>I feel a little left out I've never been warned by a Mod. I guess I just read the rules relaized I was in someone elses sandbox and helped build there castle how they liked it. My opinions, i.e. posts have been accepted thus far so I am allowed to continue, good for me.<p>And finally, shakran, speak the truth. Good posts I wish I could've said it half as well.

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"I'm not even supposed to be here today."

"I assure you we're open."

Glad-I-Ate-Her

Here we go again. I guess some purging is needed every now and again. I've been around long enough to have seen a few and let me tell you the truth, its always been for the better. Its their loss for getting banned.

I don't concern or waste my time over the crap thats happened. I leave it in the higher ups hands to deal with it. I wouldn't want their jobs. They have never let me down. I don't care who is gone and why. Like I said before, its for the greater good.

I come to TFP and go and see and respond to whatever catches my attention. No harm no foul.

So all I have left to say for now is thanks to Halx and the crew for their tireless work. I greatly appreciate it.

Glad

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I'm "Glad I Ate Her" because the payback was worth it!!

Yalaynia

I have seen and read the posts and I have also read the rules.
I look at it as the rules are written for the boards they should be followed no matter what you are using. Journals that are public access and those that are private should follow under those same rules. You are using a service that is provided to you by the owners and opporaters of TFP , it just seems common sense to me that the rules would apply the board as a whole not certain sections of it.

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I couldnt think of anything to put here , but I guess anything would do

MSD

We don't hold grudges unless someone does some thing really bad. We're people who proved ourselves worthy of becoming staff members, not the fucking thought police. People tend to be scared of us, just like the feeling you get when you see a police cruiser coming up behind you on the highway. You shouldn't feel that way unless you're doing somehting that you shouldn't.

"The clear conscious fears no midnight knocking" -Confucius

Quote:

I have seen posts by some users that I just plan rude and then are not banned. Then I see a post with an opinion about somebody that could be negative. Then that person is gone.

What tends to happen is that the really bad stuff that gets people banned is deleted, and you see a banned member. The stuff that's borderline gets a warning, and they calm down.

Astrocloud

I sent SecretMethod a PM but never got a response.... Is there something wrong with my PM?

water_boy1999

shakran, you da man!!!!

I think what happens a lot with TFP is newbies, who have experiences with other forums, have the capabilities of making flammatory remarks, use uneducated remarks about things they don't agree with and over indulge their conversations with swearing and are not kicked out or banned.

What I often see at TFP is a newbie making comments about what they think is a democratic board, yet there are non-democratic decisions that have to be made to keep things in line. They don't like it, so they voice their negative opinions. I did the same thing a thousand posts ago. I saw things I didn't agree with, but as I participated more, I found the rules are in place to make TFP a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Bottom line: This is a place to come to educate yourself through intellectual conversation, be awe inspired by beautiful artwork, be amused from the immense cess pool of wit, be titillated by the Titty Board and build friendships from all walks of life, all over the world. If this doesn't appeal to you and you don't want to play by the rules, don't comment about it. Just leave quietly and close the door behind you as you go.


My $0.02

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

God of Thunder

I've been to other boards without rules, and let me tell ya, THEY SUCK!!!!!! That's why I'm not there anymore.

This board has decent, easy to abide by rules and they are enforced. That's why I like it here.

I have seen rude comments and have either dealt with them myself in as polite a manner as I could (and trust me, polite is not something that comes easy to me) or I have reported it to a mod and the problem was taken care of.

End of story.

I said it before when there was a mild up-rising in here and I'll say it again now. I like the rules and the fact they are enforced, so I'm staying. As I said before, polite is not something that always comes easy to me, so the fact there are rules and I'll get spanked for not following them, reminds me to play nicely.

You could almost say it has made me a better person, but let's not go that far.

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I reject your reality, and substitute my own

-- Adam Savage

Lebell

I can't answer for SM, but I answer every PM I get.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Lasereth

I've sent Hal and various mods a lot of PMs and have only received a couple of responses. One of the PM's I sent was over a donation I tried to make (it fucked up, I didn't know if it went through), but I never got an answer. I guess no news is good news! The other response was by a really bad mod (who is no longer a mod). In other words, I've either not been answered when I sent a PM, or have had bad experiences with it. I'm not sure if there's something wrong with the PM'ing system, but I've yet to receive a response from PM's I've sent a LONG time ago.

They seem to work with regular users fine...maybe this should go in the help section, because it seems more like a software issue than something with the actual mods.

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

rockogre

This is just amazing that this thread is still going on. I guess I just don't care enough or something.

I get to play in someone elses sandbox so I follow his rules. I'm not seeing the problem.

This sandbox has lifeguards so I don't have to play in the cat droppings, or get dog shit on my toys. No one slaps me around without someone finding out. No one screams at me or calls me foul names. I get to discuss things with actual, intelligent people that may not agree but don't try to run me off. Young folks don't discount my opinion just because I'm older.

AND, I know enough to realize that if I write something on the side of the sandbox eventually someone will see it whether I want them to or not so I just don't write personal things on the side.

Only site like this that I ever post on or spend time at.

I guess that's four cents from me now. Carry on.

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Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

clifclav

Extraordinarily well said. Thank you very much.

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Neither rain , nor cold, nor dark of night shall.......ahh whatever, just get me a beer!

SecretMethod70

Sorry bud, I'm looking into your inquiry Please have patience.

As for not receiving responses from people, I don't know if sometimes they do get lost or not, but I can tell you that mods get a TON more PMs than a normal user. It's not unbelievable that every now and then a couple might slip through the cracks and they'll mean to respond and just get caught up with real life or something else. If you send a PM to a mod and don't get a response, then send a second one saying "hey, just wanted to see if you got my PM since I haven't heard a response from you." And if that doesn't work, PM another mod - maybe they can grab the other person's attention or figure out what's up.

We're not separate entities here. We try to work as a team. So, Unless there's a reason only the one particular mod can help you, there's no reason not to try someone else if that mod doesn't happen to get a chance to reply for whatever reason.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

grumpyolddude

I've never failed to get a response from a PM, from a Mod, an Admin, or the site owner! Maybe I'm just special? Nah! My wife won't even buy that one!

Intelligent discourse is extremely hard to come by these days. The ability to express opposing points of view without demonizing your opponent is becoming a lost art, but it has a happy home at tfp. Even the most virulent tirades on our Politics board are refreshingly civil compared to talk radio or televised "chat."
Offering the population a place to be heard without the fear of being "flamed" is a great gift. Halx should be thanked and praised for his generousity and vision.

Tfp is a challenge to the online world to come forward with ideas, thoughtful arguments. It's been billed as "evolutionary," with a constuctive agenda. If the internet is ceded to the loudest, brashest and most obnoxious voices, the evolution of the human mind will cease. If you can't leave the rancor outside the site, then stay outside with it.

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"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

yournamehere

Hmmm . . . seems as if at least some of the banned long-time members are back.
That's a good sign. Logic and understanding at work, no doubt.
Welcome back to the temporarily missing.

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If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

VitaminH

Well I for one, have no real idea what is going on, but I am sure that those in charge of the site are doing what is best for the community, and for that I thank ye.

*Holds up beer*

Cheers

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"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

KillerYoda

That explains that. I was kinda wondering why when I finally return to posting, all these people were gone.

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"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

soopadoopa

I don't usually post in these threads because this is my place to relax at the end of the day. BUT I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Halx and all you hard working Mods for the effort to keep TFP friendly and well intentioned. Assholes just aren't needed. Here or in real life. I have a positive story on help from the admins. I'd been here a while and my wife got interested. Well, she couldn't register under her own username because it was the same IP address, I suppose. Anyways, I PM'd Halx about it. Never got a response, but the situation was fixed in just a couple of days. Just a positive experience on my end. THANKS AGAIN.

Ganguro

Hi Lasereth!!
*waves*

Lasereth

*high five*

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

legolas

Wow, I always miss big events like this. I still don't know -exactly- what happened so I'll refrane from commenting.

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"To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."

HamiC

I am a guest....and extremely grateful and happy to be here.

Reading this thread simply reiterates what is so nice about this community and how it is run. It takes character and strength for a community to engage in this kind of introspection.

Dissent can be constructive or destructive....we should seek to be a part of the solution....or respectfully choose to go elsewhere. It is always our choice.

Glad-I-Ate-Her

Let's leave all the baggage behind. Its not getting us nowhere.

Glad

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I'm "Glad I Ate Her" because the payback was worth it!!