_A_TFPUSER_

I was reading springrain's journal and some of the comments posted on it and I want to know exactly how private our private entries are. I couldnt find a straight answer from the responses on how private these private entries really are. Art goes on his usual oh-so-philosophical rant and is of no help at all.

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Why not? I post in my private entries with a very high expectation of privacy and I dont expect lurking eyes to go through it. I've posted several extremely personal stuff and other information that should never be seen by others.

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According to Art, So does this mean that the mods go through our private entries and censor out our personal thoughts? If so, this is truely disturbing. Nowhere did i see a warning that somebody else might read my entries. I assumed by the word "Private" that my entries will be private: to myself and myself only.

Sleepyjack

I mean, i don't want to be a prick, but i thought that journals might be some kind of safe haven. Theres a sorta contradictory statement in that they say journals are meant to be representations of our thoughts, but if we're thinking anything negative about the site or whaetever, then we are not allowed to think that! I thought that was a bit of a crock. Whoaitz (sp?) summed it up well in his final entry, which he ceased cause he didn't want to be told what he could or couldn't think?

That said, i also dislike people just bitching in there between their other journal friends, cause they might feel it's safe cause they want get any one differing of opinon.

Art has a point as well, in that it's a sign of bad manners if we are just bitching out the site all the time, just cause it's not fair to you. It is bad manners.

so i don't fucking know, i am indecisive

I don't get involved with politics really, on this site either, so i don't really mind too much how it is run cause i am usually enlightened by the site, in some way, and just "get over" other sorta nonsensical not so important stuff that doens't really affect me unless i want to feel that way. That's me though. I can see valid points flying around everywhere????

~springrain

new rules were posted re: the journals just today...

this is something new i guess...

link

Averett

I've never posted private entries but if this is the case than I am incredibly pissed off. Why have private entires if they aren't private?

I'm starting to think that the journals are pure bullshit anyway. Your own thoughts on anything? Private entries?

People always liken this site to visiting a friends house. Of course I'm not going to bitch and moan at a friends house, but if I'm treated unfairly I'd sure as hell speak up.


As another note... I'm not "site bashing" or anything like that. I like it here. But recently things have been going down hill I think. I've seen a lot of people voice their opinions and then be banned. Yes, there is probably a lot of behind the scene things going on. But it also seems that many egos are getting in the way of the way of things.

Hell, as far as I know the things I'm saying right now could be bannable offences. It's hard to tell.

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The_Dude

It should be labled "Between me and the mods" :P instead of private.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

aurigus

If you want to write something down, and not make it posted to others, why not use notepad on your system or some other similar method? Anything you post on here or any messaging system is posted in a MySQL database, with whoever that has access to it can read anything purely "private" anyway. Writing it down in notepad and offline will make sure noone else can read it. I don't think there is a big expectation of privacy with anything run by someone else on the internet.

The mods here probably have a good sense of us with expectations of privacy, but no offense to the mods I wouldn't trust them with that. If you want to write something truly private, you can't really rely on someone else to keep it that way.

Of course you could move the old-fashioned paper journal, that way even haxxors can't read it. Plus that method of journaling has wireless access anywhere.

Cynthetiq

it's as reasonably private as any system in place on the internet.

it's not open for ANYONE to look at, but those that manage and administer the systems.

it's a matter of ethics that the journals information stay with the administrators and staff and not be divulged by anyone.

as a technician I was privy to many personal items by many powerful people. Would it be right for me to act on it? Would it be right for me to publish a book airing out someone else's laundry? Of course not, and I think it's a shame that other trusted people have violated that trust in the vein of publishing a book or making a name for themselves.

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Averett

It should be stated somewhere that Private journal entires can be seen by Administrators and/or Moderators. If it is stated somewhere please point me to it because I don't think I've seen it.

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ARTelevision

It should be common knowledge that administration includes access.

Cynthetiq posted the issues involved well.

You won't find any other system in place on the Net.

We follow the guidelines he stated above.

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create evolution

~springrain

call me completely stupid & naive...

even though the admins have access (of course they would, they wrote and created everything here)... i would be surprised and disappointed if admins actually abused that power and opened, read, intruded or anything of the like on private entries.

if it says "private"... it gives the user the idea that it will be kept private... and that only under extreme circumstance (site crash, data base trouble, etc.) would a private file ever be viewed.

if that is not the case here... in a place that talks of respect and integrity... then i am deeply disappointed.

Averett

What she said.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

ARTelevision

If you haven't seen the pattern of site bashing and other implicit person bashing that existed and still exists in PUBLIC journal entries than yes you might want to describe yourself as you have - that's not my call. The actions that have been taken to relieve certain people of their burden of membership (as they clearly saw it) were taken as direct responses to their public entries and public statements. As I stated in the context of the above-quoted response, I may be a hardhead but I'm not blind.

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Cynthetiq

looking at the liability issues:

If someone posts something in the private areas, something of criminal in nature, from plotting to kill oneself, harming others, abusing children, I don't think that I need to go on, but these things do happen. There is a legal and moral obligation to do something about it.

Remember it's Halx and BuDDaH that are responsible ultimately for the TFP when it comes to anything legal.

Averett

Would I be correct to assume that Halx or BuDDaH go through and read each private journal entry?

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Cynthetiq

no. the logistics make that impossible. both have to put food on their tables and this does not provide that.

Art and I both read the journals very heavily. I'm not an admin so I cannot see the private entries. But it's not an easy task just looking at those posts, then add to it the forums.

i cannot say that it's something that has to be read now. something that has to be read tomorrow, but there is a liablity that they exposure.

i'm going to say, easily, that it's done when there is a reason to do so.

I'm going to make hopefully my last statement on this issue, it's like your mom. She doesn't go thru any of your stuff and you have reasonable privacy. You fucked up something, and she got mad and she tore thru your all your stuff looking for whatever it is that pissed her off. She doesn't go rummaging all the time, just when she found a need to.

Averett

Okay, thanks.

Hmm.. well with that last statement should somebody say something like "I'm worried about the status of this site." in their journal, then make a private entry right after an Administrator would look at that private entry? Cause they got pissed off?

I'm not tryin to cause trouble, just trying to understand.

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Cynthetiq

again, logistics rules that type of thing out. it's impossible for anyone single person go thru all what crops up on a day to day basis here.

as art stated it's a matter of patterns of behavior, not single incidents.

*Nikki*

I think we all should assume that anything that we write on the internet could be seen by others.

Cynthetiq

DING! DING! DING! A winner!!!

spived2

It does seem kind of wrong to have others going through our private entries, but remember, there is always the option of pencil and paper, so if you really don't want someone reading it, use those. Always assume someone is reading everything you write on the internet, because most of the time that IS the case.

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"This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

TFP_US3R

did everyone who posted on this thread get banned?

sixate

Not everyone.
But those that sign up with an email of tfpsux@hotmail.com will get banned.

Peetster

No. Frankly it had nothing to do with the journal issue.

shakran

I do not see the problem here. As aurigus said, we all have Notepad. If we want something truly private, we can write it there, and save it on our local machines. I mean, you don't want others reading your private entries, so what exactly is the point of posting them here? Seem to just be more logical to put 'em on your local machine.

SecretMethod70

Exactly.

Not to mention we've caught paedophiles on our site using the private journals to document their escapades. Prominant ones too (none of your business who). And, yes, we only looked when there was evidence of a reason to.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

laconic1

It doesn't seem that difficult really. If you don't want other people reading your private thoughts, don't store your private thoughts on someone else's property. I just don't see what the big deal is.

EruptiveDreamz

Hmmm .. can't help but to reply here. I guess I kind of figured that an online journal or at that fact any journal to be honest is something there is always a chance someone may read. I grew up hearing that if it was something you didn't want someone to know .. then don't write it on paper. Or in this day and age the net applies as well. If it is that private of a thought you need share... talk to yourself and keep it in your mind. Then no-one can read it.

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SiN

better than anything i'd have said, and i completely agree.

thanks

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tommy_vercetti

what about our PM's though?

i've pmed people asking for stuff (like porn passes).

is it safe to say that we cant have an expectation of privacy for pms too?

Holo

Nope. PMs can be read using PHPmyadmin or thru a vB2 hack that allows admins/mods to read PMs. NEVER, I repeat, NEVER think anything your post at any forum is private even in PM. There are also ways for a user to gain access to your account including PMs.

That said, I would like to think a private entry would only be compromised in an event of LEA subpoena and only to expose malfeasant individuals entries, not to mointor the thoughts of it's members. I can't say I know the details of those that were banned, but I personally don't agree with reading journals in absence of malfeasance. Opinion is just opinion and I know this site doesn't have to support it's detractors but from what I gather only the journal owner and an admin would know that subversive journal entry existed, so I can't agree with it being "site bashing", especially when the journal owner had a mistakenly implicit belief in the sanctity of their journal. I hope this doesn't get me banned, but if it does I know my integrity is sound and that a poster of my type is not welcome here.

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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

Halx

to add a punctuation to this, it's important to note that we've been able to identify a pedophile member as a result of the journals... we use our powers, specifically, to make sure this kinda shit doesn't happen.

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BuDDaH

Just to let you know, I don't even bother with the journals...
AT ALL.

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ladyadmin

wouldn't it be less of a distraction if the journal option was turned off and just forums were left? still leaves plenty of room for expressing oneself, right?

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shakran

OK, I'm confused now. Where the hell did that come from? The admins haven't been banning people for their opinions. If they were I'd be banned right now. BuDDaH and I have been going at it like crazy in a thread over in the politics forum for over a week now and I have not been banned, disciplined, or threatened in any way. A lot of you guys seem to be running around pretending this is Russia in the 1950's, where if you say anything the "officials" don't like, you quickly disappear. While that may be a fun paranoid fantasy to hold, it's just not happening around here.

ShaniFaye

Well I chose to take up the offer of an explanation and get the info straight from the horses mouth and having been in his position on my own board, I completely understand

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SecretMethod70

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

sailor

Look, heres the deal--*anything* you post, write, or transfer on the internet can be read somewhere, in some fashion. Never assume that anything on the internet is private. Never.

That said, I dont know what was said in those journals, only those involved in the recent... issue... know that. I therefore do not know how bad the posts were. I do however think that users should be notified that their journal posts arent private.

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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Holo

Well my post above was an opinion gotten from the info in this thread and info from trusted other members who remain nameless. My opinion is just that, and I know it changes nothing and I didn't post it with that intention or with the intention to create any more drama. Let me just say that I've come here and been very careful about things I post to avoid the ban screen, and the times I have taken a risk have always been deleted as being too controversial for this forum. I don't like it and I have less desire to contrib but I know I'm low on the pecking order here, a face in the crowd so to speak, so I post it somewhere that welcomes it and chalk it up as a loss.

I see a lot of posters who seemed pretty cool who all the sudden are banned with no way to know why they were banned...the post(s) they were banned for are deleted. I can't figure why whoaitsz was banned save for his final journal entry, and I disagree with that too. He made a stand on how he felt about journal monitoring, and while his entry remains his entire board account is taken away. This guy gave a lot to the forum, honestly more than I have, and his anger shows he felt betrayed by his community.

I know you, the TFP, owe no one anything and it's free to post here, but I think banning a good community member for disagreeing with the leaders of his community isn't the best way to go. I know his tone was vehement, but I think it demonstrates his involvement in the community. He's never been a troll that I've seen. I see this and have every reason to think I'm next. I've posted several times during my time here thinking I'll come back to the banned screen when I log back in. I've had several benign posts deleted, some were understood after a PM, others are still a mystery. If a good poster like whoaitsz can be banned I surely can. That was the reason I said that above.

I like and respect the intelligence of a good amount of ppl here, and I like that flames are controlled, but I definitely feel I post under the shadow of a ban. I make sure my posts are as clear and non threatening and I'm sorry to say, at times PC as possible and I still expect to be banned one day for someone taking something the wrong way. If I feel this way, I can guarantee others do as well.


This place has evolved and still is evolving. Of course there will be kinks to iron out, and I know it's believed you don't have to serve all the interests of your members. But members are human too and vent and spout off sometimes. It's like when your SO really pisses you off but 3 hours later you want to hug her again. I've been in the thick of forum drama as a moderator, and I know a troll from a disgruntled community member. I am just saying ppl should be given less to worry about being banned, because I know I am not alone in my words but I'll let them speak if they wish.

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I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

wilbjammin

The best way to keep something private is to kill yourself.

The next best way is to keep quiet.

I prefer just keeping quiet personally, though I don't particularly care one way or the other if 90% of my thoughts and feelings are known.

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Innominate.

tommy_vercetti

thats great news indeed, but would the child molestor have posted those thoughts if he/she knew that the post was going to be read over by the mods?

i'm not saying that turning in a child molestor is a good thing, but if he govt kept tabs on us, then there would be no crime at all.