PayPal turns off the red light - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ARTelevision · 05-01-2003, 03:36 PM

PayPal turns off the red light

CNET News.com
April 30, 2003, 1:01 PM PT

eBay's PayPal unit will phase out payments for most sexually themed merchandise for sale on eBay and elsewhere.
PayPal, the payment service eBay purchased for $1.5 billion in October, this month published its revised policy on processing payment for adult material. Only PayPal members can access the policy statement.

The April revision amends a March decision that stopped payment for sexually explicit goods except those listed under eBay's "Mature Audiences." The latest revision includes eBay's merchandise in the virtual ban.

"The thinking behind the March decision was that because eBay had already put in place a number of steps that users had to go through to buy and sell items, it would be a logical step" to continue processing eBay's sex-themed goods despite the ban, eBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove said. "But users came back and said this made it very inconsistent and confusing. And they were right."

PayPal users will have until May 12 to process payments for intangible adult products such as online photos and streaming video. Sales of sexually themed tangible products can be processed until June 12.

Pursglove said the revised policy reflected a cost-benefit analysis, rather than legal or moral considerations. PayPal currently faces allegations by the U.S. Attorney's Office over its processing of gambling-related payments. The company is accused of violating the Patriot Act by processing payments tied to illegal activities.

"It came down to a simple business decision," Pursglove said. "As PayPal continued to grow and review internal operations, there were higher financial and other risks associated with these kinds of payments."

These risks included a higher proportion of "charge backs," or merchandise sent back with refunds to the buyer. PayPal also saw more complaints by buyers and sellers in the category.

PayPal has done well for eBay, which last week cited the new unit's revenue as one reason for exceeding its own earning estimates.

eBay has no plans to restrict its own "Mature Audiences" category, Pursglove said.

With the new policy, sexually themed materials join a long list of items whose sale by PayPal members is either forbidden or highly restricted. These include bootleg recordings, counterfeit currency and stamps, water pipes and wired cigarette papers, illegal drugs, firearms made after 1898, humans, corpses and human body parts.

PayPal has carved out numerous exceptions to its ban on sexually themed materials, including what it terms "fine art"--singling out Michelangelo's David as an example, should it come up for sale--and issues of the magazines "Playboy," "Playgirl" and "Penthouse" printed before 1980.

While sellers and buyers of pornography may find themselves inconvenienced by PayPal's decision, competitors might find opportunity in the new policy. Yahoo's PayDirect service, for example, makes no mention of "sex" or "adult" content in its terms of service. Yahoo could not be reached for comment.

.................................................................................................

I'm not comprehending the sense of this "simple business decision" and I'm not a dumb guy.

I can almost understand bootlegged stuff like:
"...intangible adult products such as online photos and streaming video." They can be considered "illegal material". OK.

But I don't get:
"Sales of sexually themed tangible products can be processed until June 12."

I think this is a wtf?

How 'bout you?

Lebell · 05-01-2003, 03:40 PM

I've already given up on PayPal and Ebay.

Awhile back they stopped letting people sell anything firearm related, and I'm not talking illegal gun sales to gang bangers, I'm talking EVERYTHING from parts to accessories (All 100% legal to own, sell and buy).

So this latest doesn't surprise me very much.

JStrider · 05-01-2003, 03:43 PM

thats just weird... they must have gotten new management... new more... religious management...

WhoaitsZ · 05-01-2003, 03:47 PM

EGADS.

i have _so few ways_ to order some things due to my having to live with my parents. i have my own life on here, and now fucking PP is doing this?

everything i do goes to shit.

goddamnit

Frosstbyte · 05-01-2003, 03:58 PM

That's just a bit strange. I would think they move a lot of that kind of merchandise. Why prohibit transactions of that nature if it is legal material? I mean, I can see why they don't want to be some back alley avenue for child porn or something like that, but if it's legal, I don't see the purpose. They must've had some stroke of...weird moral superiority or something.

WhoaitsZ · 05-01-2003, 04:00 PM

we can order knives, booze (I assume), dangerous materials, violent movies and what not... but god forbid some innocent man want to buy Where The Boys Arn't.

idiots (paypal, not you guys)

rock_bottom · 05-01-2003, 04:32 PM

Maybe there's a legal/insurance reason? Like if they stop selling stuff that falls under the label of "adult" they move down to a lower payment bracket? Just speculation.

wondash · 05-01-2003, 04:40 PM

I wonder if the ban includes subscriptions to adult web sites?

The_Dude · 05-01-2003, 04:44 PM

that sucks

HeyAgain · 05-01-2003, 04:55 PM

Ever since Ebay took over Paypal. I have grown to dislike them a lot.

I took my first attempt at selling something over Ebay a couple months ago, and was shocked at the double-dipping that they have implemented. One service charge to sell on their website, Ebay, which I understood.

I don't get how by accepting credit cards payments, I would be charged a fee to process the transaction. I am not a business owner selling large quantities but a person who simply wanted to sell some odds and ends items.

Cynthetiq · 05-01-2003, 05:34 PM

all these companies are now trying to stay away from the conserative's target sights, vis a vie Ashcroft and his minions.

The pendulum swings back and forth...

Zotz · 05-01-2003, 06:01 PM

The porn nazis strike again

Slims · 05-01-2003, 09:06 PM

I continue to buy ammunition,reloading equipment and, I think, some firearms accessories through paypal. If that's their policy, they sure don't make it very clear.

alpha phi · 05-02-2003, 04:02 AM

It sounds like pay pal is just protecting their buisness from things like the patriot act.
the writing of the patriot act is so vague and broad, you can violate it simply by pissing off anyone in power.

.......opps I just violated it!

Binder · 05-02-2003, 04:53 AM

more proof that the soccer moms are taking over the world.

troit · 05-02-2003, 05:59 AM

Art -- At first glance I thought...Yeah this makes sense. They are slowly getting away from the mature audience market for legal reasons. But as I read further I too became a bit perplexed because ebay is still going to continue to list said items but now it is harder to pay for said items. I'm with you on this one -

huh?!? Makes no sense.

05-01-2003, 03:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	PayPal turns off the red light PayPal turns off the red light CNET News.com April 30, 2003, 1:01 PM PT eBay's PayPal unit will phase out payments for most sexually themed merchandise for sale on eBay and elsewhere. PayPal, the payment service eBay purchased for $1.5 billion in October, this month published its revised policy on processing payment for adult material. Only PayPal members can access the policy statement. The April revision amends a March decision that stopped payment for sexually explicit goods except those listed under eBay's "Mature Audiences." The latest revision includes eBay's merchandise in the virtual ban. "The thinking behind the March decision was that because eBay had already put in place a number of steps that users had to go through to buy and sell items, it would be a logical step" to continue processing eBay's sex-themed goods despite the ban, eBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove said. "But users came back and said this made it very inconsistent and confusing. And they were right." PayPal users will have until May 12 to process payments for intangible adult products such as online photos and streaming video. Sales of sexually themed tangible products can be processed until June 12. Pursglove said the revised policy reflected a cost-benefit analysis, rather than legal or moral considerations. PayPal currently faces allegations by the U.S. Attorney's Office over its processing of gambling-related payments. The company is accused of violating the Patriot Act by processing payments tied to illegal activities. "It came down to a simple business decision," Pursglove said. "As PayPal continued to grow and review internal operations, there were higher financial and other risks associated with these kinds of payments." These risks included a higher proportion of "charge backs," or merchandise sent back with refunds to the buyer. PayPal also saw more complaints by buyers and sellers in the category. PayPal has done well for eBay, which last week cited the new unit's revenue as one reason for exceeding its own earning estimates. eBay has no plans to restrict its own "Mature Audiences" category, Pursglove said. With the new policy, sexually themed materials join a long list of items whose sale by PayPal members is either forbidden or highly restricted. These include bootleg recordings, counterfeit currency and stamps, water pipes and wired cigarette papers, illegal drugs, firearms made after 1898, humans, corpses and human body parts. PayPal has carved out numerous exceptions to its ban on sexually themed materials, including what it terms "fine art"--singling out Michelangelo's David as an example, should it come up for sale--and issues of the magazines "Playboy," "Playgirl" and "Penthouse" printed before 1980. While sellers and buyers of pornography may find themselves inconvenienced by PayPal's decision, competitors might find opportunity in the new policy. Yahoo's PayDirect service, for example, makes no mention of "sex" or "adult" content in its terms of service. Yahoo could not be reached for comment. ................................................................................................. I'm not comprehending the sense of this "simple business decision" and I'm not a dumb guy. I can almost understand bootlegged stuff like: "...intangible adult products such as online photos and streaming video." They can be considered "illegal material". OK. But I don't get: "Sales of sexually themed tangible products can be processed until June 12." I think this is a wtf? How 'bout you? __________________ create evolution

05-01-2003, 03:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I've already given up on PayPal and Ebay. Awhile back they stopped letting people sell anything firearm related, and I'm not talking illegal gun sales to gang bangers, I'm talking EVERYTHING from parts to accessories (All 100% legal to own, sell and buy). So this latest doesn't surprise me very much. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-01-2003, 03:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	thats just weird... they must have gotten new management... new more... religious management... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

05-01-2003, 04:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	that sucks __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-01-2003, 05:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	all these companies are now trying to stay away from the conserative's target sights, vis a vie Ashcroft and his minions. The pendulum swings back and forth... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-01-2003, 03:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	EGADS. i have _so few ways_ to order some things due to my having to live with my parents. i have my own life on here, and now fucking PP is doing this? everything i do goes to shit. goddamnit

05-01-2003, 03:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	That's just a bit strange. I would think they move a lot of that kind of merchandise. Why prohibit transactions of that nature if it is legal material? I mean, I can see why they don't want to be some back alley avenue for child porn or something like that, but if it's legal, I don't see the purpose. They must've had some stroke of...weird moral superiority or something.

05-01-2003, 04:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	we can order knives, booze (I assume), dangerous materials, violent movies and what not... but god forbid some innocent man want to buy Where The Boys Arn't. idiots (paypal, not you guys)

05-01-2003, 04:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
rock_bottom Crazy Location: Indiana	Maybe there's a legal/insurance reason? Like if they stop selling stuff that falls under the label of "adult" they move down to a lower payment bracket? Just speculation.

05-01-2003, 04:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
wondash Psycho	I wonder if the ban includes subscriptions to adult web sites?

05-01-2003, 04:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
HeyAgain Psycho	Ever since Ebay took over Paypal. I have grown to dislike them a lot. I took my first attempt at selling something over Ebay a couple months ago, and was shocked at the double-dipping that they have implemented. One service charge to sell on their website, Ebay, which I understood. I don't get how by accepting credit cards payments, I would be charged a fee to process the transaction. I am not a business owner selling large quantities but a person who simply wanted to sell some odds and ends items.

05-01-2003, 06:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zotz There's someone in my head, but its not me	The porn nazis strike again

05-01-2003, 09:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	I continue to buy ammunition,reloading equipment and, I think, some firearms accessories through paypal. If that's their policy, they sure don't make it very clear. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

05-02-2003, 04:02 AM	#14 (permalink)
alpha phi seeker Location: home	It sounds like pay pal is just protecting their buisness from things like the patriot act. the writing of the patriot act is so vague and broad, you can violate it simply by pissing off anyone in power. .......opps I just violated it! __________________ All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.

05-02-2003, 04:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
Binder Insane Location: between lost and confused	more proof that the soccer moms are taking over the world.

05-02-2003, 05:59 AM	#16 (permalink)
troit Transfer Agent Location: NYC	Art -- At first glance I thought...Yeah this makes sense. They are slowly getting away from the mature audience market for legal reasons. But as I read further I too became a bit perplexed because ebay is still going to continue to list said items but now it is harder to pay for said items. I'm with you on this one - huh?!? Makes no sense. __________________ I've yet to dephile myself...