sixate

LINKY



I don't really have much to say about this that won't be said.
I'll never understand how people can be this fucked up..
This bitch doesn't deserve a trial. She should be shot in the fucking head.

World's King

Is it wrong that I laughed when I read the headline?

I'm sorry but the word "Fetus" is funny.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Finchie

I am torn between complete disgust and laughing. This woman obviously has mental issues and the thought of cutting a fetus out of another person makes me want to puke. But the fact that she thought she could just GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND CLAIM IT AS HERS makes me cry. And why the hell did everyone believe that she was 10 months pregnant?

H12

As sick of a story as this is, I agree; fetus is a silly word.


Seriously though, good Lord. I don't see why an adoption agency, her husband, or even an unsafe sexual orgy couldn't let her get the baby she always wanted...yet her murdering a pregnant woman and stealing her fetus (he he he, fetus) was the answer?!? Please.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

tinfoil

Yup, sixate's nailed this one. Shoot her in the head and move on to the next one.

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Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

Ashton

ARTelevision

I guess there's actually such a thing as fetus envy.

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create evolution

Gimli

Isn't this TWO murder charges?

Another call for us to be kind to those around us. Do so.

ickma

This is one of those times when you just sit there and think "what the hell". Someone that fucked in the head doesn't seem to be fit enough to raise a child anyways.

Phaenx

Hunters save America again! Eat that, Democratic party.

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"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

shakran

So all you have to do is find a dead body and you save the country? Neat. I saved us all when i was 6 then.


What's with all the calls to kill this woman? "You killed someone and killing is wrong, so we're gonna kill you."

Doesn't make much sense to me.

I say jail her for life. Then enact prison reform that gets the convicts out rebuilding our infrastructure rather than sitting around in jail cells lifting weights and watching cable TV.

omega2K4

No. Nobody knows if that fetus would have been born healthy, stillborn, died in the womb, died in some accident, etc.

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"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

H12

The court still considers it murdering of a fetus. As the story said, "Oklahoma courts have ruled that murder charges can be filed in the killing of a fetus if the fetus was viable...Under the state's abortion law, a fetus is presumed viable after the 24th week." Since the woman was six months pregnant, that's about 26-27 weeks deep into the pregnancy.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

oldtimer

No, jailing her for life will make no difference. They always get probation or reduced sentence for "good behavior". God, that term wants to make me cry. "Good behavior" for a robbery, then yes. Understand me when I say I have no sympathy for this woman nor the one who drove her car home with a LIVING man in her windshield. I am surprised no more. There are no more surprises....unless Osama Bin Laden turns out to be a hermaphrodite. That's farfetched but definetely surprising.

Resolution: Hand her to me. For I, too, want death for her. But only through the same demented way she killed her best friend; dragging her out to the forest and shooting her in head. If she had a fetus, I'd probably remove it too. But, I know the would-be child had no wrong doing so it's just my exaggeration of the saying: "An eye for an eye."

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Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Angel

This is a sick, sad story. I cannot imagine the state of mind this girl must have been in to shoot a woman in the head and then cut out the fetus lying within her womb.

This is obviously the act of a very desperate woman who is emotionally unstable. I can't help but wonder if there were pressures from others to "get pregnant, have a family, what's taking so long?" That can make a woman who is having difficulty conceiving feel pretty inadequate. Don't misunderstand me, I think what this girl did was absolutely fucked up and unforgivable. I just wonder what the background is....
Sad, sad story.

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In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was within me an invincible summer.
~Albert Camus

analog

Jail is for people we believe we can "save" or "punish" for commiting a crime. The whole idea of jail is to "rehabilitate" a person, while taking them out of society so that they cannot commit another crime while undergoing this "rehabilitation". THAT is why there are the "good behavior" clauses. If you show that you can be a fine, upstanding member of society for long enough, they believe that the "rehabilitation" has worked, you have seen the error of your ways, and you will not commit a crime again.

Bearing all this in mind, are you- and by "you" I mean anyone who pulls that (IMO) annoying as fuck "eye for an eye makes everyone blind" shit- going to tell the parents, the brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, husbands/wives, children, etc., of all the victims of fucked-up heinous crimes such as this that there exists a "just" or "fair" punishment?

It's very easy to say "put them in jail", but sometimes we need to gather and focus the strength of our convictions, and realize that this is not a recoverable member of society. There is no program to make this a sane, reasonable person. This is an atrocious act for which, in my opinion, there are only 2 options- make them rot in a jail WHERE THERE IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO QUESTION that they stay locked up until their demise. Put them in a room with a bed to lay on, and wall it up- leaving space to deliver food. A person needs several "consecutive life sentences" to guarantee they stay locked up forever, and they're not easy to get in a court (and still not satisfactory in my book).

Option 2: Shotgun blast to the face (or maybe stoning, let the whole family of the victim kill her together). We really should bring back stoning.

Let the husband of the dead pregnant lady pull the trigger. Videotape it, and sell it as pay-per-view TV, all proceeds go to charities.

NOTE: I have no past experience which has soured or solidified my opinions on this matter (never had someone I know killed or anything), I just feel very strongly about this topic in general.

sixate

Sure, that'll cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars on a piece of shit worthless bitch...One bullet to the head would cost less than $5....... Or maybe after 20 years in jail she could be let out, and baby-sit your kid.

I'm all for eye for an eye.

shakran

OK, let's be reasonable here:

First off, regarding the cost, it's gonna cost a HELL of a lot more to put her to death. The appeals process for the death penalty can take well over a decade, and lawyers are a lot more expensive than prison food.

Second, I disagree with the whole notion that we should destroy anyone who cannot be a "fine upstanding" member of society. Are you suggesting that we kill all the retarded people because they won't measure up to society's standards either? What about the career crook who lands in jail 27 times for white-collar crimes? He's obviously not gonna change, so maybe we should whack him too.

I'm not pulling the standard eye-for-eye argument that Analog hates so much. I'm saying it's totally illogical for us to say that killing is wrong and therefore anyone who does it should be killed. Plus, we still haven't gotten our justice system perfected yet. There have been a LOT of people on death row who were found guilty when in fact they were innocent. So we're not just killing the people that might deserve to be killed - we're also killing innocent victims.

As for whether there's a just and fair punishment for this woman, no, there's not. Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes someone commits a crime so heinous that there IS no punishment that will alleviate the consequences of the crime. Look at Tim McVeigh. Do you really think killing him made it all better for the families of the people killed in the OKC bombing? Not only that, my sense of justice tells me that killing these people is giving them the easy way out. McVeigh was never getting out of jail so from his perspective he may as well die. Death penalty = easy compared to life locked up. If you want real justice, sentence them to life, then make them work every day of their life at the hardest physical labor you can find. You can rebuild the crumbling infrastructure of this country while dealing out a much harsher punishment to the criminal.

And when I say sentence them to life, that's with the understanding that our justice system needs reform - life should mean life, not 10 years.

If killing is wrong, then killing is wrong. We can't logically kill people if we say killing is wrong.

H12

Amen; I always wanted to see one, and this would be a perfect situation to bring it back.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

GakFace

Precisely. No need being hypocritical here guys. She did something insane, but I think Shakran has a good idea. I also think we should fix things up so life = life. Then make them work for something as punishment. You can't say we're not already spending tons of money so they can sit there and watch Cable Tv. How about we take the TV away and replace it something else.. shit just take the TV away, that'll save a lot of money.

Eye for an Eye, yeah at times it sounds good.... but it just doesn't make sense... This means you are giving them a punishment which is exactly the same that you are punishing them for. If you do Eye fo an Eye, technically you'll too have to be punished for the wrong doings.. then the one who did it to you, and so on.. ya know, cause what you did was still wrong.

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RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

seretogis

If someone seriously doesn't understand that killing someone and cutting out their unborn child from their womb, is bad, how on earth do you punish them? You don't. You remove them from society so that they can do no more harm.

Execution is cheap, all you need is one bullet and someone willing to pull the trigger.

By your logic, any punishment of any sort is wrong. "The Law" is above people, which is the very reason that people are held accountable to it. If we had no "Law" then we would have chaos everywhere. It is not beyond the reaches of the "Law" to permenantly remove someone from society for doing something as awful as this. This woman did not show herself to be a figure for your pity, but as a scheming, manipulative, liar who had no problem committing murder in one of the most gruesome ways I've read of. She does not deserve your sympathy, she deserves a bullet between the eyes.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
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Boner

I would be suprised if she didn't get the death penalty.

Oklahoma is not far behind Texas in the amount of executions, and execution of women isn't uncommon.

shakran

You can't possibly be that naive. In the first place, death by firing squad doesn't happen any more. It's gas chamber, lethal injection, or more rarely, electrocution. All three of those methods cost more than a bullet. Second, after the initial trial you don't really think her lawyers are gonna roll over and give up do you? They're gonna appeal for years, costing the government literally hundreds of thousands of dollars just to try to kill her. It'll wind up costing FAR more than putting her in jail until she dies of natural causes would.

Third, no one's saying that what she did was not a bad thing to do. It was. What we're saying is that if our society is going to view killing as a bad thing to do, then it's rather idiotic for our society to have government-sponsored killings.




And this woman is not a scheming, manipulative liar. This woman is a lunatic. She's obviously crazy - no sane person would do what she did. She deserves to be locked away forever. She might even deserve to die - but that is not for us to decide.

By the way, people who use the argument "kill them because otherwise they'll be paroled" have a serious morality problem. They're saying "our justice system is screwed up, but let's not bother fixing it. Let's just kill people so they can't take advantage of what's broken."

The answer is to fix the justice system so that murderers/sex offenders/etc do not have the opportunity to leave prison at all. Ever.

Spyder_Venom

Sick and wrong, that is the only thing that comes to mind...

I'm going to go throw up now.

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JohnS72

Tragedy is the only word I can think of.

Stare At The Sun

What a sick fuck. Even though shes probably totally fucked in the head, she deserves the death penalty.

World's King

Oh My God. Art made a funny.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

sixate

I respectfully disagree.
I think that there can never be reform if nothing really happens to people like this. Life in jail? More like a slap on the wrist.

If we put a bullet in their heads maybe after a while people would think about their actions and consequences to them. If they don't, then at least we rid the world of useless people, and I'm all for that.

analog

Well, here's the problem I have with that. I know I posted that I would be fine with seeing her walled up for the rest of her life, but that's only because I know that we will never fully realize the necessity for appropriate retribution, so I'm basically settling for "the next best thing".

Also, we're not talking about someone who snapped and shot someone. We're not talking about a man or woman who found out their spouse was cheating on them and killed them out of rage.

What we have here, is a clear-cut and simple case of a person whose mental processes are not that of a human being fit to live in ANY society. This was a person committing a crime they justified in their mind prior to committing it, and for quite some time. She faked pregnancy for 10 months... so there's at least 10 months she's been planning on this disgusting act. She intentionally befriended a pregnant woman in order to gut her and take her unborn child. Not only did she justify it all, but she planned it very meticulously so that it would come to fruition. Do not mistake my use of the word meticulous- being mentally unbalanced has nothing to do with your ability to plan and execute what you make up in your (fucked up) mind. Lots of very intelligent people have done very horrible things. Just because you are "smart" does not mean your intentions are good.

And who is anybody to say that if someone kills, we can't kill them to make up for it? That doesn't make us hypocrites, that makes us intelligent human beings, choosing the best option, based on available data. This is not a person who could ever safely function in society, or one that we should ever let back into society.

And you know what? I'd bet good money that it is far more satisfying and cathartic to know that the person responsible for your relative not being alive, is also now not alive. Why should they continue to get to live, when their loved one did not have that option?

DEI37

Just a quick thought on the death penalty bit. Nobody said killing was wrong on it's own. It's murder that is. She murdered two people. By all justice, her life should be taken. I don't see what the complication is with that.

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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

santafe5000

Sometimes you have to wonder what goes on in the mind of these earthling's. People have just lost their sense of right and wrong. Too many times do you hear about the strange thing's that one person does to another. Right or wrong, I think this is a clear cut case for the death sentence. She had her shot at a normal existence and blew it. Time to remove her from the civilized world.

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shakran

I don't think so. . . If I were one of the victim's relatives, I'd frankly be pissed that the murderer is free from all pain while I'm still here miserable because my relative is dead. I'd much rather know that the murderer is looking forward to 40+ years of back breaking labor. Of course, again, this requires a fundamental shift in our carriage of justice.

I find it amazing that we consider it humane to kill prisoners, yet it is inhumane to make them do hard physical labor for 12 hours a day with no pay. I would derive immense satisfaction out of knowing that, on any given Saturday while I was relaxing in front of the TV, my relative's murderer was just starting a 12 hour day of ultra-hard labor for which he would receive no compensation. That'd be a much harsher punishment than killing him, which is just a way of letting him out of having to deal with the consequences of his actions. And that way you wouldn't have the moral conflict that I still say exists with the death penalty.

Just IMHO