Ireland to ban smoking - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mercury-hg · 12-13-2003, 10:15 AM

Everyone seems to continue to ignore the fact that DerBlitzkrieger pointed out: there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health. The FDA study that initially spoke of the dangers of 2nd hand smoke and is cited by all anti-smoking lobbying was withdrawn because it simply had no scientific basis.

now, i have never smoked a cigarette in my life. this isn't because i believe i have moral superiority to people who do, or greater willpower, or desire for better health -- i just think it smells bad. i infrequently smoke a cigar or pipe because i think they taste and smell good. however, banning cigarettes in all indoor establishments is fairly adsurd. sure, i'd prefer if it were the case, but i don't think it is my right to impose that on every patron. 2nd hand smoke is at worst an annoyance (might be some harm with EXTREME exposure), and banning it without anymore justification is absurd. bar/resurant owners should have the final say on what is allowed on their property.

RippedSock1 · 12-13-2003, 12:32 PM

In America, people have freedom... until it infringes upon another person's rights. You have every right to smoke yourself (and only yourself) braindead. Here, you DO NOT have the right to make me smoke. And you cannot deny that you are because when you light up, I breathe in the same poison.

Now, unless something is created that stops me from breathing in your smoke, I will object to you doing it around me.

CSflim · 12-13-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mercury-hg
there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health.

Don't be ridiculous.
there are dozens of such studies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2053840.stm

Now there may be some studies arguing the other way, but all I know is:

1. When I come home, at night, from the pub, my clothes REEK of smoke...I mean they are really disgusting, and I can't even leven them in my room at night, lest they stink the room up. If second hand smoke can do that to my clothes, I'd hate to think what it does to my lungs.

2. When I walk into a room where people have been smoking, I will either start to cough, or else (more usually) just get the feeling that I need to cough.

neither of these are positive things.

RippedSock1 · 12-13-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mercury-hg
there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health.

Give me a break. How is it that filtered smoke going through the cig, proven to be hazardous to the smoker; NOT hurt others around the smoker who are breathing in the unfiltered smoke?

CSflim · 12-13-2003, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mercury-hg
there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health.

Report of the Scientific Committee on Tobacco and Health
http://www.archive.official-document...o/contents.htm

Quote:

2.32 Exposure to environmental tobacco smoke is a cause of lung cancer and, in those with long term exposure, the increased risk is in the order of 20-30%.

2.33 Exposure to environmental tobacco smoke is a cause of ischaemic heart diseases and if current published estimates of magnitude of relative risk are validated, such exposure represents a substantial public health hazard.

2.34 Smoking in the presence of infants and children is a cause of serious respiratory illness and asthmatic attacks.

2.35 Sudden infant death syndrome, the main cause of post-neonatal death in the first year of life, is associated with exposure to environmental tobacco smoke. The association is judged to be one of cause and effect.

2.36 Middle ear disease in children is linked with parental smoking and this association is likely to be causal.

Most Comprehensive ETS Report - 40,000-67,000 Deaths/Yr
http://ash.org/ETSreport.html

Quote:

* ETS kills between 40,000 and 68,000 Americans each year
* ETS causes lung cancer, sinus cancer, and heart disease death
* ETS may cause cervical cancer, spontaneous abortions, cystic fibrosis, and other conditions
* Even outdoor exposure can present a serious problem

Acute Effects of Passive Smoking on the Coronary Circulation in Healthy Young Adults
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/286/4/436

Quote:

Conclusions Passive smoking substantially reduced CFVR in healthy nonsmokers. This finding provides direct evidence that passive smoking may cause endothelial dysfunction of the coronary circulation in nonsmokers.

Australian Report on Passive Smoking
http://no-smoking.org/nov97/11-28-97-2.html

Quote:

The scientific evidence shows that passive smoking causes lower respiratory illness in children and lung cancer in adults and contributes to the symptoms of asthma in children. Passive smoking may also cause coronary heart disease in adults. It is estimated that passive smoking contributes to the symptoms of asthma in 46,500 Australian children each year and causes lower respiratory illness in 16,300 Australian children. It also causes about 12 new cases of lung cancer each year in adult Australians. Passive smoking may also cause 77 deaths a year from coronary heart disease.

Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke and Cotinine Levels - Fact Sheet
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_...tsheet_ets.htm

Quote:

# ETS causes about 3,000 lung cancer deaths annually among adult nonsmokers. Scientific studies have also estimated that ETS accounts for as many as 35,000 deaths from ischemic heart disease annually in the United States. More research is needed to know exactly how recent changes in ETS exposure may affect lung cancer rates among adult nonsmokers.

Environmental Tobacco Smoke: A Hazard to Children (RE9716)
http://www.aap.org/policy/re9716.html

Quote:

Results of epidemiologic studies provide evidence that exposure of children to environmental tobacco smoke is associated with increased rates of lower respiratory illness and increased rates of middle ear effusion, asthma, and sudden infant death syndrome. Exposure during childhood to environmental tobacco smoke may also be associated with development of cancer during adulthood.

Passive Smoking Linked to Increased Risk of Respiratory Problems
http://no-smoking.org/dec01/12-21-01-2.html

Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke
http://www.oehha.org/air/environment.../finalets.html

Reports Showing ETS Causes Lung Cancer
http://no-smoking.org/july98/07-20-98-7.html

Fact Sheet on Secondhand Smoke
http://www.repace.com/factsheet.html

_________________________________

Yes, I am aware that there have been a number of reports which came up with contradictory conclusions. But to claim that no such reports exist in the first place is just blatantly wrong!

Journeyman · 12-13-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Mind over matter, and my mind is more powerful that any drug. If you must know, I'm very judgemental when it comes to stuff like this. I see it as a weakness, and I won't ever be a part of it.

The choice to partake in something addictive is definitely a stupid, ignorant, and impulse driven choice more often than not. However, I'd like to invite you to inject yourself with one good dose of heroin, and then keep a second in your pocket for the month thereafter. If that dose is still there after a month, you can talk all you want about "mind over matter."

I suppose I'm just trying to point out that initiating an addiction is retarded, but being addicted *is* a condition that is very hard to just up and drop.

CSflim · 12-13-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Journeyman
The choice to partake in something addictive is definitely a stupid, ignorant, and impulse driven choice more often than not. However, I'd like to invite you to inject yourself with one good dose of heroin, and then keep a second in your pocket for the month thereafter. If that dose is still there after a month, you can talk all you want about "mind over matter."

I suppose I'm just trying to point out that initiating an addiction is retarded, but being addicted *is* a condition that is very hard to just up and drop.

sixate's whole point was that he would DECLINE your invitation to shoot up.

Journeyman · 12-13-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Mind over matter, and my mind is more powerful that any drug.

So you're saying that he meant to say his mind is more powerful than any pressure to take drugs. Fair enough.

sixate · 12-13-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Journeyman
The choice to partake in something addictive is definitely a stupid, ignorant, and impulse driven choice more often than not. However, I'd like to invite you to inject yourself with one good dose of heroin, and then keep a second in your pocket for the month thereafter. If that dose is still there after a month, you can talk all you want about "mind over matter."

I suppose I'm just trying to point out that initiating an addiction is retarded, but being addicted *is* a condition that is very hard to just up and drop.

If I ever would shoot up once I'll bet my ass I'd never do it again. I'm the most judgemental asshole the face of the planet, and I'm 100x harder on myself than I'd ever be to anyone else.

Shortly after High school I began to drink. Never did before. I figured that I'd have some fun. Well, as it turns out I like, check that, love the taste of alcohol. I drank like a fish for a little while. Anything I could get I drank it, and drank a lot of it. All of my friends told me I was an alcoholic. I said that I could quit any time I wanted. They all said that's what alcoholics say. They just didn't get it. One day I had reality smack me upside my dumb fucking head. Here's the story: I was over a friends house with a bunch of people I graduated with. BTW, I hung out with the biggest pothead drug-addict alcoholics in my school, and never did anything with them until I drank after graduation.. Never tried drugs, and never will. Anyway, everyone was all fucked up. I was drinking a bottle of whiskey, and as I took a chug from my bottle a friend made a comment. He said that they all liked me a lot better when I was drunk because I acted like them..... I looked around the room and realized I didn't want to be like them. I was better and smarter than all of those losers. I left and didn't drink a thing for a long time. I would only drink about 2 or 3 times a year after that, and now I gave it up completely. As it turns out they all still live at home and don't work. They always have been losers and always will be. For as much as I drank it was easy for me to quit. I didn't stuggle when I did it either. From that day forward I have always/will always see people with addictions as weak people. It's a fact. Another fact is I'm not weak! I'm waaay stronger than any drug. I stand by my opinion. I could never get addicted to anything even if the shit was injected in my body. As I already stated. It's mind over matter, and my mind is more powerful than any drug.

spectre · 12-13-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Journeyman
The choice to partake in something addictive is definitely a stupid, ignorant, and impulse driven choice more often than not. However, I'd like to invite you to inject yourself with one good dose of heroin, and then keep a second in your pocket for the month thereafter. If that dose is still there after a month, you can talk all you want about "mind over matter."

I suppose I'm just trying to point out that initiating an addiction is retarded, but being addicted *is* a condition that is very hard to just up and drop.

I'm going to agree with sixate on it being mind over matter. At least twice, I've been on a PCA (a.k.a. morphine pump) for a month straight. Both times, mind over matter. It is addicting and very difficult to overcome, but not impossible with the right mindset.

12-13-2003, 10:15 AM	#41 (permalink)
mercury-hg Psycho Location: U of MD	Everyone seems to continue to ignore the fact that DerBlitzkrieger pointed out: there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health. The FDA study that initially spoke of the dangers of 2nd hand smoke and is cited by all anti-smoking lobbying was withdrawn because it simply had no scientific basis. now, i have never smoked a cigarette in my life. this isn't because i believe i have moral superiority to people who do, or greater willpower, or desire for better health -- i just think it smells bad. i infrequently smoke a cigar or pipe because i think they taste and smell good. however, banning cigarettes in all indoor establishments is fairly adsurd. sure, i'd prefer if it were the case, but i don't think it is my right to impose that on every patron. 2nd hand smoke is at worst an annoyance (might be some harm with EXTREME exposure), and banning it without anymore justification is absurd. bar/resurant owners should have the final say on what is allowed on their property.

12-13-2003, 12:32 PM	#42 (permalink)
RippedSock1 Tilted	In America, people have freedom... until it infringes upon another person's rights. You have every right to smoke yourself (and only yourself) braindead. Here, you DO NOT have the right to make me smoke. And you cannot deny that you are because when you light up, I breathe in the same poison. Now, unless something is created that stops me from breathing in your smoke, I will object to you doing it around me.