taliendo

There is no better place to see the machine that is American than a major shopping center or mall. Not just the customers moving lemming like through the isles, nodding absent mindedly with the over head music, and finally being herded out the doors through the turnstile like checkouts, one must also examine the employees. Here we see the fusion of what was once a mercantile industry with the service industry; a melding that becomes corporate America at its lowest. I’ve worked retail almost non stop for the last six years, since I was 16 and could get a legal paying job. The most disgusting aspect of retail is the corporation themselves. Day in and day out some big-wigs in an office building in a huge city sit and dream up ways to scam and lie to Joe Consumer (always with a smile.) These people, too good to ever good to even drop by to see what it is like to be one of their employees, fail at their job every day. I’m not sure how many times orders have been sent down from corporate - instructions on a new way to stock shelving or hang signing or charge a customer’s debit card. These people have one objective in mind and that is to pinch the penny. There has to be one more way to get an extra three cent an item.

My question is this - How much money is enough? How much of this earth’s land do you want to fill with Targets, and Blockbusters, and McDonalds? What’s wrong with small business? And there’s the catch. Capitalism is making its way to becoming a socialistic society, where the power resides in the hands of the few and everyone else derives their wealth from those centers. And what makes capitalism so great? Because of the lies that they tell - any man can make it big, any one with enough good work ethic and a good idea can be the next president.

And so I ask - who in their right mind would want to captain a sinking ship? The shit is going down. All because people stopped believing in what those founding fathers wrote hundreds of years ago: What about, “all men created equal?” What about “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” And every man’s God given right to seek after those things. What if he is a Muslim? What if he is an Iraqi? What about these people's liberty to live life how they see fit? A dictatorship you say? The abuse and torment of the proletariat by the ruling class? I say let them rise up. Let them start their revolution and if they ask for assistance then please, by all means, go and help them. Did we not cry out to France and Spain? Did they not seriously aid us in our battle against the red coats those many years ago? What they did not do was invade our land and try and push their government and politics upon us. Doing that is no better than Napoleon or Constantine. That is raising and empire.

Our McDonald’s mentality has crept into our world affairs and this country has started to raise franchises across the globe. The reality is a horrowshow. We give the people their freedom and then abandon them in it. Now, with a dictatorship spoiled, and a freedom that no man asked for, the people are left holding themselves unsure about how to proceed. Living in a torrential atmosphere, the suddenness of it leaves a gap only to be filled by some other preformed power coming in a forming yet another dictatorship. Only this time the government is masked in the light of the “democracy” that we “gave” the people. This all leaves the world where? The super power dying while continuously setting up failing franchises based upon itself, and the world – well, the world will be ok. Perhaps even a better place.

-------------------

NOTE: I am not anti-American, but this really bothers me. and on a side note this was written a while ago (bout when Bush jr declared war) and I thought perhaps it would raise some discussion on this forum. Please, by all means, discuss.

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

Cynthetiq

a few years doesn't make a sinking ship. rome did not collapse in one day, in fact it survived many bad leaders and representatives for close to 500 years, America as an country is still quite young,

We still have lots to learn and lots to endure.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

chiefslappajo

WOW! The transition from upper management in retail business to the US trying to rule the world was a little quick, but here's my two cents. If you get tired of going to Walmart, or Target, or insert-mega-store-here, go somewhere else. I understand, sometimes you need battery cables, sweet tarts, a christmas tree, and a box tampons and no place else except Walmart will do, but other times, try a privately owned business. Granted, you may pay a few pennies more, because they don't have huge wholesale orders, but, you will always get better service, and if you don't like something, talk to upper management, they'll probably be right there. Yeah, both my parents have they're own businesses, so I may be a little biased, but to me, there's just something gratifying about knowing that I'm helping the little man, or, if he fucks me over, knowing that I can reach right over the counter and choke him myself

__________________
Longstanding Member
Loved by children. Desired by women. Adored by bartenders everywhere.

taliendo

I suppose that the rant on the corporation was only used as a (weak) metaphor - I agree about supporting small and privately owned businesses, although, inevitably I do shop at Walmart and other such places.

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

tokaok

personally i dont think the problem is that big corporation are huge humanless operations that dont care about people. i think that the promblem is that people actually think that(im guilty of that too)

i work for a relatively big company in Canada Famous Players Theathres .

alot of people think our company is evil(13.95 Can per movie tix), and think that all who work there and just greedy dumb people.

but to all of us in our one establishment its like a second familly, these are the people we spend a huge chunk of our lives, and personnaly we really do believe that we try to give one of the best theathre experienves.

but ill agree that even i say that *insert evil company* is evil and greedy, because we rarely have a person that symbolises what that company does, believes in and cares about.

this is a reason why alot of people like Wendys (good old Dave), and those guys that put on those cheap, adorable commercials on local tv (my current fav is The Floor King)

So while people still do and shop for the same things as they did 60 years ago, the feeling of interaction and place in a community is being lost.


ack ive written some much now i think i may have jacked the convo.

taliendo

tokaok - I understand where you're coming from, The reason that I used Target and Blockbuster in my rant is because those are the places that I've worked. I've also spent time at Walmart and Toys R Us.

I didn't dislike my job at any of those places, in fact I met some of my best friends there, but as I said before the mentality of the 'heads of corporation' is what gets to me. Somewhere along the way the business stopped being about people at all and all about the almighty dollar. I also think that this mentality has crept into the way the men and women govern our nation (the US.) I was reading recently (somewhere on TFP) how Bush jr is governing the country like big business and that's why he's had much success. . .But at what price does that success come?

I think that when concerning yourself about the needs and rights of a people (and the world's, considering America is a super power and has no problem flashing her guns,) one must ask what the goals of the superstructure are. If the president is running the country like a big business, whose interest does he have in mind?

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

tokaok

i think you hit a very good point here.

my take on it is that all people hold have thoughts/ideals/beliefs that they hold. such as well being of others, safety, wealth. but that these good intentions have only a limited area of influence before the immediate challenges of that person take a greater priority.

for example most people think that all should have a job that can let them support their fammily, feed and clothe their children. But the realities of their world force them to go shop at WalMart. at that point the one individual is making their values and hope a reality for themselves, but in a way hampering it for others(kid in philipines who made their sons sweater, and mother of 10 in africa who farmed their steak dinner for the night).

this person is not evil, and the same thing happens to CEO of large corporations, they see their kids and want they best for them and so they do by buying them say a brand new car. even tho this cost the lay off of one of their employess 1000 km away whoes children might bare even get break fast.

i dont know, for me its hard, im a quite liberal and socialist, but i believe that such programs (universal health care for all canadians) we need strong economic decision made by the powerful CEO who generate so many tax dollars, while at the same time hurt a small sub set of individuals.


it is the age old:
the sacrifice of the few vs the benefit of the many.

if one is in the many, then the cost of the few is acceptable.

but whne one is part of the few it is not.

what makes things harder is that for the general populace any one person
is can be part of the "few" or the "many" depending on the issue at hand.

irseg

Oh boy, another rant about corporations, capitalism, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and money from someone whose business experience consists of getting $6/hr to run a cash register. Next...

irseg

Ooh and the socialist "wealth is a zero-sum game" fallacy, too. Damn you people are on a roll in this thread!

So giving jobs to people in the Philipenes hurts them? The alternative would be....? And I'd really like to know how many African woman cow farmers ship beef to America.

FYI, any employee's job is to make a profit for the company. If the employee in your example was doing that, there's no reason why a CEO would fire him in favor of a car. Not that it would ever happen in a large corporation, anyway. Also, notably absent from your scenario is the fact that his purchase helped feed the car manufacturer's employees.

jbrooks544

Wow, I totally disagree with you. First, capitalism is the opposite of socialism. The big chains wouldn't succeed if they didn't provide people with what they want. It is the dream of most small businesspeople to succeed so well as to expand, create a chain, franchise, etc. This is the dream of businesspeople who are motivated by money. It sounds like you begrudge people their success.

For the most part, these stores give people:
- convenient location
- wide selection of desireable goods
- competitive prices
- good service
- pleasant shopping experience.

If more small, local merchants did these things better then perhaps there wouldn't be such a demand for the larger retailers. They only got large by giving people what they want, and doing it better and cheaper than others. The OPPOSITE of this is socialism, where people and companies are not free to engage in competitive exchange and converse. In socialist societies, people like you think they know better than others what is good and they dictate how things should be done. This invariably ends up failing. This is because through competition efficiencies are maintained and suppliers and buyers are able to quickly react and adapt to changes. Not perfect, but better than any other alternaives so far.

If you are really so against the whole thing then you can;
- get a non-retail job
- start your own business to compete
- move to someplace that isn't so overrun or suburban
- learn a basic and substantial skill/occupation like carpentry or something productive and far removed from retail.
- etc.

20 years from now these stores and chains migh all go the way of the buggywhip. Maybe people will get everything online or some other way. The companies that react the fastest and give you what you want will survive, adapt and succeed. That is a good thing. You are free to try it too.

ARTelevision

Rather than reinvent the wheel here just to hear myself type, I'll just state that I agree completely with the statement above by jbrooks544. Very well stated. Thanks.

__________________
create evolution

Seaver

1) Walmart and other big retail stores would NOT continue to exist if they didn't provide what the people want. They are not evil, they are not world-dominating, they are simply a company. The second any other store can beat their prices/convenience/location they would be out of business (look at K-Mart).

2) People are predictable only when you give them stacked choices. The majority of people would rather buy the same item for less rather than going to a smaller store who may not even have the item, only to pay more. Walmart works because they have damn near almost everything, and at prices that at LEAST match the competition.

Yeah, that IS what makes capitalism great. Have you ever heard of Wendys? How about Microsoft? How about Dell? Yeah, all of these were started/owned/ran by highschool dropouts who happened to have A) a good idea and B) talent.

No, not every moron can be a CEO, sadly someone has to clean toilets. The difference is in capitalism you have a CHOICE how far you wish to push yourself.

Yeah, they did, in '92. Unfortunately we gave them the blind ear. Thousands were killed, and tens of thousands were tortured.

Except we dont plan on keeping the territory. We have lost Hundreds of Thousands of people helping out the world to keep free lands free, and the only land we have asked for in the last 100 years is enough land to bury our dead. I'm sorry but that is not an empire, it is a powerful country who tries to defend the weak.

irseg

Very well put. Nothing about capitalism guarantees equal results--not everyone will be millionaires. But a truly capitalistic society does guarantee equal OPPORTUNITY for everyone to prosper.

That sure beats the hell out of socialism, where everyone is equally poor, hungry, and standing in line all day for bread. Except the government officials, of course, who steal everyone's money to provide luxurious lives for themselves.

I'm utterly astounded that socialists still exist in this day and age.

spived2

I had a very hard time trying to figure out what it was about large corporations that you disliked here. You didn't really provide any examples of how they are destroying our country. These corporations ARE out to make money. That is why they are built. They were not built to provide a public service to people, but to sell people products and services at a fair price and to make it convenient for people to get to, and in the meanwhile try to turn a profit. I for one am glad there are wal-marts and mcdonalds all over the place. If I need something, I don't have to go very far to get it. If i'm hungry and don't want to make anything, I can go grab a burger.

Just like jbrooks544 said, small businesses CAN compete with large corporations as long as they have something to offer to the customer that can't be gotten so easily at, let's say, Wal-mart.

Now let's talk about online stores. Online shopping is an easy way to shop without even having to leave your house. As online stores grow in popularity, large corporations will have to find new ways to compete, thus there is competition, which leads to lower costs, more variety, and better quality items and services.

Sorry I went a little off topic there and rambling a little, but I just don't see how large corporations are going to lead to the downfall of our country. As far as I can remember, that's what our country was built on.

__________________

"This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

taliendo

sorry folks, I guess it was my fault, but my point wasn't about corporations at all. It wasn't even about capitalism. . .

I understand how capitalism works; I'm happy for it. At the time that I wrote that little rant I was pissed at Bush jr, for taking our troops to war over what I feel was over-inflated ego and absurd reasoning (in other words, bullshit.) As I stated earlier, the use of talking about Walmart, blockbuster, etc in the first place was simply used to illustrate that Bush is running our country like a corporation (not saying anything against the corporations themselves.) It was a weak metaphor to begin with, and obviously I did a poor job at conveying my original point.

Thanks. . .

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

taliendo

irseg -

I don't understand how paying my way through college by working in retail lowers the value or the validity of my opinion. I have worked in every aspect of retail (in a local level) from the 5/hr worker who scrubs the toilet at the end of the night to the 12/hr worker who runs the store. I don't find the need to validate my point further.

thanks.

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

skier

I'm still not sure what you're getting at- Are you upset because Bush has lost sight of the people and seeking out the allmighty dollar? Or are you saying he is like a president of a company with 51% of the shares and so runs the U.S. like a dictator? What is your base philosophy towards government? Do you want a night watchman state or some all-inclusive socialist system where you can't tell where the government ends and the public begins?

Of course these are extremes, but I'm having trouble identifying your stance on the issue that you have presented. Could you clear it up in any manner?

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

irseg

I wish the damn government was run like a corporation. Corporations aren't allowed to say "Send us 35% of your money. If you don't, you're going to jail."

gtr71

Judge Wapner is on at 5:00, yeah

Seaver

Please, I dont want to sound like a dick here but it needs to be said. Read what you wrote before you hit post.

I am 100% fine if you dont support Bush or anything he has done. But please make a better effort to explain why, instead of listing dozens of things that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Hating someone just to hate him doesnt convince others to your side, nor does making an argument that no one else understands.

Build up an argument before you start rambling. Just throwing in seemingly random stuff together both kills your argument, and weakens anyone else's that happen to have the same view.