taliendo

I was perusing through the ladies lounge tonight (only the second time that I poked my head in there) and it seems that the ladies have their own separate Sexuality Forum - ladies only.

I was just wondering if this was because the ladies didn't want us mens to think that they don't think of sex as much as us, or if they were embarrassed about their POV when it comes to those intimate matters, or simply what? I think that it would serve the education of the sexes if we could talk about everything openly, but it doesn't necessarily bother me.

I don't know exactly what expectations that I had when going in to the forum (maybe just more variety on the subjects.)

Hope you ladies don't mind that I was prying on your private conversation!!!

OH, and ladies -- if you're not posting here, I would definately suggest it, very interesting discussions going on!

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

Evil Milkman

I'll get back with you on some comments after I do some sleuthing myself. *sneak*

phredgreen

the ladies have their own forum because we care that much about our ladies that we're willing to concede to them their own special place where they don't need to worry about dumbassed guys making meatheaded comments to/at/about them.

it's that simple.

__________________
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
- Thomas Paine

taliendo

I totally understand that. . .doesn't make it any less fun to take a peek at now and again!

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

rainheart

I view it reguarly but rarely find it all that interesting.

...

skier

rainheart made a funny

spived2

I went in there once but I realized I wanted to comment to a lot of the posts but couldn't, so I haven't been back since.

__________________

"This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V." - V

SecretMethod70

I don't know where so many people get the impression you're not allowed to look in the ladies lounge. It's open to everyone's view for a reason. It simply says, if you're a man, don't POST. If we didn't want men looking then we'd make it so those who weren't females couldn't even see it.

Look away - you can learn a lot. Just don't post in there. And, if it's too hard not to post in there, then that's when I would recommend not looking.

As for WHY it's there, phred covered it pretty well. This board is overrun by males, so it's nice to have a place for them to go and discuss things that would invariably get sarcastic remarks from a lot of guys, etc.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

billege

I've always had this question:

With sooo many nonsensical user names, like say, "SecretMethod70" that do not denote gender, how will you know if a male posts in the LL?

I believe we are completely dependant on user honesty here. Of course, it would take a man attempting to think like a woman to make his posts non-obviously male. Since no man is capable of thinking like a woman, they'd get blown out of the water quickly. (take that whichever way <i>your</i> insecurities lead you)

In short, I've always thought of the LL this way:

It's where the ladies go to act like pigs, I mean men.

They have some meaningful discussion; they also overgeneralize, stereotype, etc. but it's all in fun, so it's okay for them to do it.

To la femme fatales' credit, there has been a lot less of that for the past few months.

Vive la femmes!

*edit*

That freaked me out! I was looking at my user cp and I thought I'd posted in the LL!

I was all ready to have JadZ kick my ass!

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Mephisto2

Good God man.

What CENTURY are you living in?!

Are you even aware of how sexist and neanderthal you sound?


Mr Mephisto

Regziever

Pretty much the reason why most of us guys stay out of there (I belive)...
It's itching badly in my fingers whenever I read something in the LL that I think they have missunderstood.. that's why I verry rarley look in there.

I think the LL is a good idea, this place has a vast majority of men so the women needs the space they get there.

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Life is shit,
Death is even worse,
So what's the point of killing yourself?
/Ignatius Camryn Paladine

Sleepyjack

that is so true and i hvae pondered this a bit. I mean, i don't mean to sound like a prick, but so many people, i thought where guys (they posted somewhat adrogynously (sp?) about non sexual related subjects, if you can claim that?)
There are a few names there, which are fairly ambigious and some even you could primarily associate/connate with males?

Anyway, that said, i hvae done this a few times as well but a good way to check ambigious gender, is either to search for their posts in the ladies lounge, or even search for their posts in the titty board section. I did the former, i only thought of the latter as ui just typed it then? although i don't think i've ever posted in the titty board section, so that wouldn't work, cause i am a guy. I think

anyway, yeah the ladies lounge is a great place to browse, ahh i didn't eman to say that allowed, but women talking about sex, sexuality and lots of other stuff about sex, is very nice

as for why guys can't post there, phred summed it up to a tee. I think i would be one of those kinda guys, sometimes

Averett

Well, I post both in the Ladies Lounge and Tilted Sexuality. Many topics get covered in both areas...

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

rogue49

Actually, you DO figure out who's a female or not.
It's weird, you can just tell.

When we find a "wanna-be", the are kicked
and not just from the LL.
Beware.

Pragma

I browsed through the LL once, a very very long time ago, and there were a fair number of interesting discussions. However, I like being able to insert my views in discussions, and I would not have been welcome - so I simply stopped going to the forums.

No temptation to get myself in trouble that way. Now I'm no longer even curious about what goes on there.

__________________
Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

*Nikki*

We can always tell if a man posts in the LL regardless of what name he might be hiding under. The only real way you can know about half of the things that we talk about in there is to be a woman!

quadro2000

Are you sure "concede" is the word you meant to use?

con·cede ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sd)
v. con·ced·ed, con·ced·ing, con·cedes
v. tr.
To acknowledge, often reluctantly, as being true, just, or proper; admit. See Synonyms at acknowledge.
To yield or grant (a privilege or right, for example).

I think that word makes it sound like the men at TFP granted the women a favor by adding the LL...I can't imagine that's the word you meant (you're pretty slick with da ladies ).

__________________
You have to laugh at yourself...because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't. - Emily Saliers

rmarshall

I'm pretty sure Dax can't actually kick your ass. Otherwise I'd be standing as I write this.

BentNotTwisted

I like to browse the LL so I can get it straight in my head who the women are around here. True, not all TFP women post there, but at least I know the members that do are women. That way when I see them post elsewhere I can get it clear in my head that the comment is coming from a woman's perspective. Besides, where else are you going to read a women only discussion regarding being bi-curious?

__________________
IS THAT IT ???!!!
Do you even know what 'it' is?

When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

water_boy1999

Just for clarification purposes, water_boy1999 is all man.
My alias, water_girl1999 enables me to post on LL without being caught.....oops, did I say that?

__________________
Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

billege

I object to men being held to standards women are not. I have seen men (as a whole) ridiculed in the LL. Men are obviously not allowed to rebut such things in the LL, as women would in the main forums.

I do not like stereotypes on anyone. It's unfortunate that men are supposed to accept thier labels, as applied by media, and society.

Men are ignorant caregivers, incompetent cooks, perpetually lost, and are bumbling dads on a thousand sit-coms. Even worse, men are not really allowed to reject their stereotypes.

Last year I posted a rant on one of many commercials such depicting dad as unable to feed his kids, or clean a kitchen, becuase mom was at a JC penny's sale. Many responses told me to get over it becuase everyone has stereotypes, and I should just move on. That's a very defeatest attitude. I was suprised at the consensus that it's perfectly okay to insult men.


I don't like to see women practicing those same attitudes toward men in a repercussion free enviornment. I've seen men get made fun of for thier stereotypes in the LL. I object to that.

I'd also like to note that it's certainly possible I'm showing some of my insecurities. Perhaps I am seeing something that's not really happening in the LL. I am open to that.


*after looking*

I've looked through the LL in this version, which I've not done in SOME time. I did not find the attitude I'm even talking about.
Open mouth, insert foot.

Now I'm off to be a neandrethal.


If we <i>really</i> wanted to we could discuss the idea that the very idea of the LL is sexist.

Phred used the word "concede," which someone already commented on.

It could also be said that we're assuming the ladies can't handle those meathead comments that could be thrown around.

Which further assumes that on the general forums, meathead comments, and a negative enviornment are tolerated. To my knowledge, they are not.

To be honest, I think we're admitting that the mods can't be everywhere. I think we're also admitting that with as many members as we have, who are predominantly male, there will be plenty of problems.

To whit:
The ladies are perfectly capable of handling themselves, but as a membership we've chosen to remove the need for them to be on guard, and simply enjoy discussing whatever they want.

In a male dominated place like the net, it's a sound idea.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Gertie

Incompetent cooks? Some of the finest chefs in the world are men.

Kostya

Like 'Dirty Dancing'?, I don't think any man will ever be able to bluff his way through a Patrick Swazye thread...

Personally I steer clear of the LL, it's just too scary who knows what kind of things go on in there, I mean Secret Men's Business is pretty standard, but Secret Women's Business, it really is a mystery to us all... Well the men anyhow...

analog

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD.... do you read what you wrote before you hit submit?

You can't expect to be taken seriously when you say things like, "In a male dominated place like the net, it's a sound idea." Also, your sexism is very clear to be read. Don't mince words. It's in your form, your style, and your overall written attitude.

If you post in this way simply to be inflammatory, I think you miss the point of this online community. Also, the mods are EVERYWHERE. They are constantly on alert, and the fellow members of this board see to it that inappropriate behavior is taken care of in due course. There is no reason I can see (or have ever seen) to doubt or question their effectiveness in this respect.

And I'm sure the reason the word concede was in phredgreen's address was because we ARE making a bit of a concession in this board. We are not a board about segregating ANY part of our community, but in this case it seems too necessary, given the nature of our environment. Guys can, and will, say whatever they feel in whatever forum they want to. Some women feel much more comfortable discussing personal things, or sometimes anything in general, with other ladies, without male interruption. Sometimes you have to make a choice, and letting the ladies have their own safety zone was definitely a good one. If phredgreen meant anything in using the word concede, I believe this was it.

Sledge

billege, I've seen your posts around and I really appreciate how you're not afraid to voice your opinion when you disagree. I don't always agree with you, but I think it's brave. Just thought you should know.

I wonder how the members of the Ladies' Lounge feel about it? If it ever comes down to making a decision about keeping or cutting the LL, why not ask them?

Conclamo Ludus

I think if billege meant to simply be inflammatory he wouldn't have opened the post with



It sounds to me like he's simply voicing an opinion. Pretty harsh on the guy, he's clearly opening something up for dicussion. I thought this community was ABOUT discussion.

Maybe it would be more productive to refute his opinion instead of labeling him a "sexist". Is the net dominated by males? Good question. With the percentage of pornography sites out there, maybe this is an indicator. Women obviously surf porn too. It raises an interesting question.

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

denim

Hm, now that JadziaDax is gone, who will kick the clueless guys out of the LL?

Elegant Holmes

I can read the LL and thats fine by me. I don't need to put in my two cents (4.5 Canadian) . Hehe

Mephisto2

But he didn't. See his earlier post where he voiced some patently sexist opinions.

Yes he is. A sexist opinion. And both analog and I are responding with our opinion. Are you saying it's OK for someone to have one opinion, but that it's not OK for others to respond? Oh, and for the record, this community is about discussion. What exactly do you think we're doing now?

billege and I have discussed this in PMs. He contacted me. We are discussing it, both openly and privately (at his choice). And on good terms I might add. At least on my part, as I can't speak for him! :-)

What on earth is that meant to mean? I could just as easily say "Maybe it would be more productive to simply drop misogynist ravings instead of ranting about men having to live up to societal expectations." There's obviously some issues there that need to be worked out.

Of course it is. Indeed, if you REALLY want I'm sure I can dig up some statistical studies on this matter. I'm curious as to what "interesting question" it raises.

Women have for centuries (if not thousands of years) laboured in male dominated society one way or another. In sexual, domestic, professional, religious, even legal issues. I think we all agree that's a bad thing. So, in an effort to be understanding, and to allow women a place where they are free to discuss things without the typical male interference, TFP has provided a women's only board.

So what?

You think that's a bad idea? You can't honestly try to argue that you don't understand why it exists. So, knowing why it exists, and understanding the context in which TFP has made a "safe harbour" for our female members to live, learn & play, why complain about this facility we provide?

Let me put it another way. We have a board set aside for those who write their own poetry and prose. We further state that ONLY their work is allowed there. Do you see me (or indeed anyone) rave about how this is discrimatory? That I'm sick of society expecting to be able to write good English? I don't think so.

Or what about the other forums? Many of them state what is allowed and is not allowed. Basically, there are rules in TFP. Without them lies anarchy. In the LL, one of the rules is "ladies only". Who would have thought such a simple and justifiable by-law would cause some of our members so much anguish?

There are plenty of other male dominated, testosterone filled BB's out there. Why not move along and join those if one think TFP is too female friendly or PC or liberal (or whatever label you wish to use)?

Mr Mephisto

analog

Throwing a line or two into an otherwise rather sexist rant about how you might be showing your insecurities comes off rather crass and insincere to me. I label no one. I said his sexism was clearly to be read. It is in his writing.

Also, I DID refute what he said- you even had it in your quote. He said we should discuss whether or not the idea of the LL is sexist. The following was in my response.

P.S. to everyone- Mr Mephisto is the man. That is all.

Conclamo Ludus

I missed his earlier post. All apologies.

I'm not saying its not ok for others to express their opinion against it. Analog's post seemed like a rush to judgement on whether or not he was being blatantly sexist or not, and a threat of bringing the mods down. As I said before I didn't see billege's earlier post. I just couldn't figure out why he was getting jumped on, and what it was for.

No. I don't. Never said it was. Actually I think its a great idea.

No complaints.


I'm not interested in labels. I simply failed to read the "sexism" in between the lines of billege's post. I read a couple off color jokes, but not any kind of misogyny. What I read was that he was questioning "why" it exists, not that it shouldn't exist at all. Personally I am glad it exists. I think it should exist.

The responses to his posts seemed overly sensitive to me. Maybe I don't see it because I am an insensitive ass (my label), and I am sorry for that. My defence of billege was simply that it seemed he was being misunderstood. Perhaps I misunderstood the "oversensitivity". If so then that's my problem and I apologize. We are all entitled to misunderstand.

Without a doubt.

__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues

Mephisto2

Well, now I'm left feeling guilty and a bit of an ass.

I didn't mean to be harsh or jump over billege.

I simply think he seemed sexist. I still do. But I apologize if I came across as pompous or holier-than-thou.

I'm sure people think I'm a right "pain in the hole" (as we say in Ireland). :-)


Mr Mephisto

billege

As much as I'm enjoying my new use of PMs for discussion of things, there are too many responses this time.
Which, I’d like to add, I am doing at Halx’s suggestion from some of his posts. PM use allows me to feel closer to the person I’m talking to. I also feel less strain when posting responses. I’m talking to one point of view at a time. More than that gets hard for me to handle.


Well, yes. I do. I am suprised at your vehamence. I assume you are responding to the portion you quoted. I thought I was pretty clear, and I'm not sure where you think I'm coming from.
Let's explore that.

Are we questioning that the net is male domintated? I thought it was, however…
I've found statistics that say it's not equal. http://www.princeton.edu/~eszter/netuse.html#gender and
http://cyberatlas.internet.com/big_p...095681,00.html
Both shows women are more prevelant on the net.
I am suprised. No, not becuase I think women are to dumb to use the web,(though I bet some of you assume I think that) but I've always read that girls and women use tech less than men. I know women are less prevelant in the IT field than men. While I was in college, there were less than 12 women in all my combined IT classes. I had one female instructer, who I’d like to add was one of the toughest and best profs. I had.
Either way, apparently women use the web more than men.

But, I don't think that really was part of the me being a stupid pig discussion.

I was thinking the web is full of guys. I've heard we have far more male users here too. Based on that, and the "dumbassed guys making meatheaded comments" problem, I said I think it's a good idea to have a place for the ladies where they won't have to hear said comments.

I prefaced that with this:
“The ladies are perfectly capable of handling themselves, but as a membership we've chosen to remove the need for them to be on guard, and simply enjoy discussing whatever they want.”

I thought that’s what I said, but hey, whatever.


I don’t want to dignify that, but what the hell.
I don’t post to be inflammatory, I post what I feel. If I wasn’t willing to continuously deal with people jumping all over me I wouldn’t bother.
I have shown time and time again my support for our mods, and though I question rules, I have chosen to obey them.

You seem to have missed this part entirely:
I said: “It could also be said that we're assuming the ladies can't handle those meathead comments that could be thrown around.

Which further assumes that on the general forums, meathead comments, and a negative enviornment are tolerated. To my knowledge, they are not.”

I’m saying that even if such comments were thrown around, the ladies could and would take care of that. I go on to say I don’t believe such comments would be a problem because they are not allowed on the general forums, BECAUSE of the mods and our member’s self control.

Given the nature of our environment? What do you mean by that? Do you mean the rampaging hordes of out of control males?
I think you do. Seeing that you next say:

Sexist are we? Apparently you can join my club. (sarcasm)
I think we’ve managed to control ourselves better than that.

So, I’m done quoting now. Almost…

I’d like you to find a post of mine where I say, or insinuate, that women are in any way less capable than men. Have fun with that one.



When I originally commented on the LL I was talking from my experience in the previous version of the board’s LL. In there I had seen threads that struck me as quite sexist towards men. It left me with a very negative impression of that board, because it seemed to be okay there. Whereas in the rest of the board it would not be.
Since Mr. Mephisto’s comments I looked through the LL. I didn’t find the women behaving like I’d said at all.
I said that. I said, “Open mouth, insert foot.”

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Jam

I saw Halx post in there :O (:P tho he needed to)

lady

__________________
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.