A deal gone bad, advice on how to go about dealing with it. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Kurant · 11-26-2003, 12:37 PM

I also posted this in Tilted Living.

-------------------------------------------

About 7 months ago, a car club I'm apart of found a guy in NYC that would allow a group of members to purchase auto-starts in bulk, as a group buy. So those indivuals got wonderful prices.

The club got the people together who were intrested, sent off just over $3,000 to purchase a designated number of units. It's been 7 months now, this guy has been giving us the run around, ducking phone calls, etc.. etc...

Now, were are currently setting up a donation system, to have 2 people fly to NYC, go to this guys shop, and demand the money or the units. People are going to go there because NYPD didn't want to deal with the situation.. I think if people show up there with indisputable evidence of what happend, they will change decide to go, however, some questions I have...

So, here is my question, if we send 2 members to NYC, will the NYPD accompany us to the shop that lied to us? Is it somthing we can press criminal charges for? We have receipts, endless emails, phone numbers, 100% proof this person had every intention on selling us these units, now it's quite obvious he lied, and never had the units to begin with. Should we get an attorney involved, or a letter threatning legal action against them, signed by an attorney?

Any other advice you have would be helpful

GoldenOuroboros · 11-26-2003, 12:56 PM

Sounds like something that should go through a lawyer.. But other than that mate I haven't got anything for you.. I don't think the NYPD will accompany you tho..

wry1 · 11-26-2003, 01:47 PM

Yeah, I've got to agree: I don't think the NYPD's going to make that big a deal of this - they've got too many violent crimes to take on, and this would most likely be treated as a do-it-yourself problem.

Get a lawyer - preferrably one who is familiar with New York State law - and sue the pants off this guy. Sue for breach of contract, sue for punitive damages (since this is an issue with this guy's company, you can go for those), sue for "pain & suffering" and whatever else your attorney can reasonably fit in....

....in other words: make this poor bastard wish that he had honored your original agreement!

BonesCPA · 11-26-2003, 02:01 PM

Get a lawyer. Possibly a letter threatening action is all that is needed. Of course if this is a scam artist, you probably won't see anything anyway, especially if the police won't investigate.

Have the lawyer contact him (in writing), and request a refund in full - who knows what quality the parts will be. If that doesn't work, threaten a lawsuit, and if necessary, file the suit.

Of course keep in mind, this all will cost money, and even if you win, it doesn't mean he will pay. Winning a civil suit doesn't mean you get the money on the spot. You then have to collect the funds, which could mean attaching pay or putting a lien on his home (if he has either). Putting a lien on his home will only get you money when he sells the house. And if this is a corporation you are dealing with, he can bankrupt the company, and you will never see anything.

You didn't say how much you have put out already, but I think your group needs to establish what your bottom line is for putting out new money. There is a reason why there is a saying: "Don't throw good money after bad money." Determine what that threshold is, and figure out what works out the best. (If you go with the lawyer, make sure the lawyer knows the cap, you don't want them going overboard.)

Oh, and showing up on someone's doorstop does work occasionally, but what happens if he is on vacation that week, or the address is a PO Box (or Mail Boxes Etc. or some such)? And if someone starts arguing, and things escalate, you will definitely have the NYPD get interested. Go the lawyer route.

uncle phil · 11-26-2003, 02:01 PM

If any of you live in New York State, write to the Attorney General's office in Albany, c/o Consumer Fraud Division, and send copies of all the particulars along with your complaint as you've stated above (make sure you c/c to the guy who's ripping you off.) Actually, this would probably work even if you don't live in New York State. If all else fails, then hire an attorney; there's no reason to spend any more money unless you have to.

Kurant · 11-26-2003, 04:31 PM

Bones, that's exactly why we plan on sending people to the door step of this business. It was an indivual, who said he worked for a shop in NYC, and the shop was willing to make this deal with us. The shop does exsist, and I'm sure he's not the only one who knows about it. We have phone numbers, his cell phone #, the emails, receipts, the amount he planned to send, the money orders, everything.

We do plan in fact getting a lawyer to write a letter. Other then that, we decided, because of the fact it's not a great deal of money, to send 2 people down there through donations, who want/can go, to cut out the middle man, go to this shop, with the receipts in hand, and get our money, or the product, and I don't think they want the product anymore. Just the cash.

In the other thread someone suggested calling the feds, interstate, because the fraud happend across state lines, I also think this ha been in the works, but to make sure, I plan on asking.

Great information, thanks a bunch.

Psivage · 11-29-2003, 02:09 PM

Check with the Better Business Bureau, and file a complaint as well.

Cynthetiq · 11-29-2003, 03:48 PM

AG is the best way to go.... since it's NYC Elliot Spitzer is no joke when it comes to fighting for the little guy. He's the guy who has been making the big stinks about the SEC and the companies that do all the stock fraud stuff.

good luck. I live in NYC and if there is anything that I can do to lend a hand... please don't hesitate to ask.

sexymama · 11-29-2003, 06:01 PM

Personally, I would have a NYC lawyer do all the foot work and save the time, effort and expense of sending individuals to the city. Of course, that depends a lot on the cost and on your proximity. Maybe it is worth it financially for you. Good luck!

11-26-2003, 12:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	A deal gone bad, advice on how to go about dealing with it. I also posted this in Tilted Living. ------------------------------------------- About 7 months ago, a car club I'm apart of found a guy in NYC that would allow a group of members to purchase auto-starts in bulk, as a group buy. So those indivuals got wonderful prices. The club got the people together who were intrested, sent off just over $3,000 to purchase a designated number of units. It's been 7 months now, this guy has been giving us the run around, ducking phone calls, etc.. etc... Now, were are currently setting up a donation system, to have 2 people fly to NYC, go to this guys shop, and demand the money or the units. People are going to go there because NYPD didn't want to deal with the situation.. I think if people show up there with indisputable evidence of what happend, they will change decide to go, however, some questions I have... So, here is my question, if we send 2 members to NYC, will the NYPD accompany us to the shop that lied to us? Is it somthing we can press criminal charges for? We have receipts, endless emails, phone numbers, 100% proof this person had every intention on selling us these units, now it's quite obvious he lied, and never had the units to begin with. Should we get an attorney involved, or a letter threatning legal action against them, signed by an attorney? Any other advice you have would be helpful

11-26-2003, 12:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
GoldenOuroboros The Cheshire Grin... Location: An Aussie Outback	Sounds like something that should go through a lawyer.. But other than that mate I haven't got anything for you.. I don't think the NYPD will accompany you tho.. __________________ Can you see me grin grin grrriiiiinnnning?!

11-26-2003, 02:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
BonesCPA No. It's not done yet. Location: sorta kinda phila	Get a lawyer. Possibly a letter threatening action is all that is needed. Of course if this is a scam artist, you probably won't see anything anyway, especially if the police won't investigate. Have the lawyer contact him (in writing), and request a refund in full - who knows what quality the parts will be. If that doesn't work, threaten a lawsuit, and if necessary, file the suit. Of course keep in mind, this all will cost money, and even if you win, it doesn't mean he will pay. Winning a civil suit doesn't mean you get the money on the spot. You then have to collect the funds, which could mean attaching pay or putting a lien on his home (if he has either). Putting a lien on his home will only get you money when he sells the house. And if this is a corporation you are dealing with, he can bankrupt the company, and you will never see anything. You didn't say how much you have put out already, but I think your group needs to establish what your bottom line is for putting out new money. There is a reason why there is a saying: "Don't throw good money after bad money." Determine what that threshold is, and figure out what works out the best. (If you go with the lawyer, make sure the lawyer knows the cap, you don't want them going overboard.) Oh, and showing up on someone's doorstop does work occasionally, but what happens if he is on vacation that week, or the address is a PO Box (or Mail Boxes Etc. or some such)? And if someone starts arguing, and things escalate, you will definitely have the NYPD get interested. Go the lawyer route. __________________ Back into hibernation.

11-26-2003, 02:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	If any of you live in New York State, write to the Attorney General's office in Albany, c/o Consumer Fraud Division, and send copies of all the particulars along with your complaint as you've stated above (make sure you c/c to the guy who's ripping you off.) Actually, this would probably work even if you don't live in New York State. If all else fails, then hire an attorney; there's no reason to spend any more money unless you have to. __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

11-29-2003, 03:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	AG is the best way to go.... since it's NYC Elliot Spitzer is no joke when it comes to fighting for the little guy. He's the guy who has been making the big stinks about the SEC and the companies that do all the stock fraud stuff. good luck. I live in NYC and if there is anything that I can do to lend a hand... please don't hesitate to ask. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-26-2003, 01:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
wry1 Loser Location: Far too far from my Angel....	Yeah, I've got to agree: I don't think the NYPD's going to make that big a deal of this - they've got too many violent crimes to take on, and this would most likely be treated as a do-it-yourself problem. Get a lawyer - preferrably one who is familiar with New York State law - and sue the pants off this guy. Sue for breach of contract, sue for punitive damages (since this is an issue with this guy's company, you can go for those), sue for "pain & suffering" and whatever else your attorney can reasonably fit in.... ....in other words: make this poor bastard wish that he had honored your original agreement!

11-26-2003, 04:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	Bones, that's exactly why we plan on sending people to the door step of this business. It was an indivual, who said he worked for a shop in NYC, and the shop was willing to make this deal with us. The shop does exsist, and I'm sure he's not the only one who knows about it. We have phone numbers, his cell phone #, the emails, receipts, the amount he planned to send, the money orders, everything. We do plan in fact getting a lawyer to write a letter. Other then that, we decided, because of the fact it's not a great deal of money, to send 2 people down there through donations, who want/can go, to cut out the middle man, go to this shop, with the receipts in hand, and get our money, or the product, and I don't think they want the product anymore. Just the cash. In the other thread someone suggested calling the feds, interstate, because the fraud happend across state lines, I also think this ha been in the works, but to make sure, I plan on asking. Great information, thanks a bunch.

11-29-2003, 02:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Psivage Psycho	Check with the Better Business Bureau, and file a complaint as well.

11-29-2003, 06:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	Personally, I would have a NYC lawyer do all the foot work and save the time, effort and expense of sending individuals to the city. Of course, that depends a lot on the cost and on your proximity. Maybe it is worth it financially for you. Good luck! __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.