shakran

Hear hear. To the people that think it's no big deal. . . ok, fine, it's no big deal to YOU. It IS a big deal to other people and you should respect that. Maybe you don't care much about whether your car gets scratched up or not, but many people do. I'm sure YOU have something YOU care about. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I took a knife and scratched up your diningroom table. Personally, I don't care about tables. As long as they're horizontal and level enough that my soup stays in the bowl, that's good enough for me. Does that mean I shouldn't respect your table when I come to your house?

It's extremely selfish to say "well *I* don't care what *my* car looks like and therefore I don't have to avoid damaging *other people's* cars."


And to the people that think that if I love a car so much I shouldn't drive it daily. Well, yeah, that's pretty much what I do. The good car stays garaged a lot while the crappy car gets driven, because the good car is rare, expensive, and basically irreplacable. I've put a lot of money and time into it. Isn't it a shame that people are so thoughtless that I have to garage that car most of the time just to keep other people from wrecking it?

This thread started out as a bad driver thread (and let's face it. If you can't figure out where the hell your hood ends, you're a bad driver) but really the core issue is respect and responsibility - something Americans largely lack.

Bash up someone's car? That's OK. As long as they didn't see you, you can leave without suffering any consequences. Cashier give you a $20 instead of a $10 for change? No biggie. It's a bonus for you! Never mind that she has to make up for that extra $10 at the end of her shift and that if it happens too often she gets fired. Who cares, you just got $10!

We like to call the 80's the "me" generation. Well I say that's crap, 'cause it didn't end when Reagan left office. Very few people care about ANYTHING other than what makes their personal lives better, and damn the consequences to everyone around them. That's why drought-stricken areas always have the one asshole with a perfectly green lawn - he's violating the water rationing rules because HE wants what HE wants and screw everyone else.

People who cut you off in traffic aren't ignorant. They know better. They just don't give a damn. They want to be where they want to be, and YOU can by-god adjust to allow it.

The past 3 decades (80's thru the 00's) have been the "screw you" years, and this "bumping" problem in this thread is just another example of it. If you don't care about your car, that's fine. Run it into your other car if you want, but keep it the hell away from MY car.

lurkette

There's a huge difference between willfully damaging someone else's property, and accidentally bumping someone's car while parking. ACCIDENTALLY. If you happened to scratch my dining room table, and didn't mean to, I wouldn't get into a fight over it or insist that you pay for refinishing it. Shit happens. And if I ever actually damaged someone's car (and touching their bumper is well short of "wrecking" someone's car) I'd take care of it. It's not like we go careening around the parking lot looking for shiny things to dent, and then giggle and go "oopsie!". And it's a far cry from creeping a little too far forward to cutting people off in traffic to short-changing hapless cashiers to the downfall of polite civilization as we know it. And you've got a lot of nerve assuming that because once in a while someone bumps a BUMPER that they are automatically a selfish, thoughtless person. GET A FUCKING GRIP!!!

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Prince

They let a 16 year old drive in this country. Nothing traffic-related surprises me anymore.

I'm sure driving schools have extended courses for those who need further teaching on how to drive in a safe and non-destructive fashion. Perhaps she could benefit from such a course.

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shakran

well, I'm not looking for a fight here, but #1 sky_driver's wife probably DID damage the car - you might not see it, but unless her car is made out of marshmallow, she most likely damaged the clearcoat, which is the protectant for the paint, which can and will lead to paint chipping, etc. #2 if I hit someone's car, I would leave a note explaining what happened and how to contact me. Did she do that? #3 you're saying you're careful with the miata 'cause Ratbastid will "kill" you if you scratch it. Well, if you can scratch the miata by bumping into a car in the parking lot, it stands to reason that the other car can and will get scratched as well. It would therefore behoove us to be careful in parking lots.

I also note with interest that only when you got something *you* cared about (the miata) did you correct your behavior. That indicates that you KNEW it was wrong to begin with but since (in your own words) your car was "ugly" and had dings already, you didn't care about it so you didn't bother correcting the issue. In other words, only when the damage would effect you personally did you stop bumping into things. That DOES point to the problem of "me" and "screw you" we are having in society, because it's the same attitude shared by the majority of people out there.

That's great! Unfortunately, that didn't happen at the school, according to the original poster. They both just walked in without leaving a note. That's not taking care of the problem.

BTW, if I had a problem with scratching other people's tables with knives, I'd stop using knives around their tables until I had acquired the skills necessary to avoid making the knife and table intersect. I'd also TELL them if I scratched their table, and <i>insist</i> on paying to have it fixed. Again, according to the thread starter, this didn't happen when she bumped the car at the school.

Sure, if someone bumps into my car by accident, I'm not gonna beat the crap out of 'em or anything. I will expect them to pay for the repair, however, and if they try to skulk off without admitting to what they did, I'll get pissed. I will also get irritated if I find out they bump into stuff routinely and have never bothered to learn how to avoid it. Seriously, WTF? Driving without hitting stuff is not rocket science. It'd take about 10 minutes MAX of practice to figure out where the corners of your car are. If you're bumping stuff regularly, why the hell wouldn't you take that 10 minutes to permanently stop the problem? If for some reason someone just can't figure it out, they sell products that tell you when you're getting close to something. Perhaps that would be a good investment for the driving-challenged.

I'm not saying you or anyone else is bad or evil. It's just a fact of society today that we have been conditioned to not care about stuff unless it personally effects us. It's a societal problem that needs correcting, IMHO, but I don't see that happening any time soon :/

krwlz

Lurkette, I love your posts generaly but your missing the point. Bumping someone car is something you have control over. Its not an accident. Pay attention, or park where there are no other cars. Thats all everyone is getting at.

lurkette

Yes, it's something I have control over, but so is stepping on someone's foot in a grocery store (watch where you're going), or bumping into someone in a hallway, or spilling wine on someone's pants, all of which are the result of carelessness. Forgive me for being pedantic:

ACCIDENT:
1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE <met by accident rather than by design>
2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought

Even if it could be prevented, it's still an accident. I have no intention of damaging someone's car.

Am I careless? Sometime, yes.
Should I be more careful? Yes.
Is it the end of the world if I am not? No.
Are all of you who would cry if your car got scratched perfect? No.
Am I a bad bad horrible rotten person who should have her driver's license taken away because she has upon 3 or 4 occasions in her 14 years of driving crept too far into a parking spot and admitted it? I would say no.

I'm not missing the point, or defending my driving. I'm simply pleading for a bit of perspective. You all are acting like it should be a misdemeanor, and people who bump bumpers are responsible for all rudeness and strife in the world and should be taken out and horsewhipped if they don't fall on the ground weeping and plead for forgiveness.

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lurkette

Listen, I NEVER defended what I did. I simply admitted that I have bumped people's cars, and that I started being a lot more careful when I realized that people give a shit if their car gets scratched. I was giving advice to the original poster about what worked to make me more cognizant. And then all of a sudden people are saying I'm negligent, a rotten driver, they'd beat the shit out of someone who bumped their car, and that I'm an example of the selfishness rampant in our society. I'm not defending anything, simply saying that you're all loony for going off the deep end on this one.

There's a difference between saying "People who bump cars are blameless" which is what I'm NOT saying...

...and "So someone bumped your car. Get over it" which is what I AM saying.

I'm not arguing about the rightness or wrongness of parking skills, I'm arguing about the ridiculousness of getting bent out of shape over this.

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- Anatole France

pocon1

Nothing is an accident. It is called a collision. Fault can always be found. Didn't see the deer at night? You were outdriving your headlights. Slid in some ice and crashed? You should know the weather conditions. Brakes failed and you ran over a pedestrian? Your car should be in good mechanical condition. Hit a car in a parking lot? You should know the size of your car. People always think that an accident is simply an accident. It is not. You or someone else is at fault, and you take that risk and responsibility when you turn the ignition in your car.
Fortunately for me, my wife is even more protective of our cars that I am. We also park in parking lots defensively to avoid all of the assholes that are out there, and we have yelled at sloppy people before.

Cynthetiq

Interesting thread.

I've been obsessing over getting a MINI for the past month, and when I took my car out of the parking garage in NYC I noticed a deep scratch & gouge in my new bumper (I was rear ended last year and it was replaced) it was not hit once but twice while parked in the parking garage. Those of you in NYC know that they are tight spots here. So it got me thinking of this thread and just how I would feel if I had my new MINI...

and it made me think that I didn't want the car because of some one else's carelessness. So I continued the thought for 24 hours. I would deprive myself of something that I wanted because I made other lifestyle choices like living in Manhattan. No sirree!!! I got out of that funk and decided. It's just a car. It's just like anything else that I have. It's going to get ding'd scratched bumped. If I can't accept that it will happen to it, then I won't ever own a car that I want or care about.

And if I did that... then the careless people have won...

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water_boy1999

Sure, it's nothing to get in a fight over, but come on Lurkette, it is common respect for someone's property we are talking about. It isn't about men or women being better drivers, or people who speed in the slow lane. This thread is simply about respecting someone else's property. If someone bumped my truck and owned up to it, I wouldn't be upset. If I saw them do it and they just up and left the scene, I would definitely have an issue with it and I would confront them in a courteous manner. You are right in saying that a bit of wear and tear is to be expected. If you were in traffic Lurktte, and someone behind you accidentally bumped you a bit, then sped off without a second thought, would you still have the same viewpoint, or is it reserved for a parked car, and why?

ratbastid

You HAVE?? Hadn't noticed!!

lurkette

Actually, that very thing happened. We were at a stoplight, and felt a "bump!" The car behind us had bumped us, very gently, and I could see the driver in the rearview mirror. She had her hands over her face peeking out between her fingers, and mouthed "sorry" at us. Ratbastid and I laughed, waved at her, and drove off when the light turned green. If she hadn't looked sorry, we probably would have scowled about it, but I wouldn't have gotten out of the car and ranted and raved. Wouldn't even have gotten out of the car at all - it was a gentle tap, couldn't have done any damage to speak of, no big deal and not worth ruining my day or hers. So perhaps that sheds some light on why I'm having such a hard time understanding why some people get very upset about it.

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raeanna74

Yes. Just what I was saying. You're local DMV should probably have a list of good driving courses. They will help you be more defensive and more careful and considerate.

Me I park in the back of the lot often. I don't have a great looking car - It's either our 92 pontiac or 97 Olds. Neither are expensive really. I figure the walk (Unless it's exceptionally miserable weather) does me good and gives me excercise. With my pontiac - it's a two door and you know how wide those doors go when you open them. I'm always draggin 1-3 kids out of the car as well and you know they tend to grab the doors and can bang them against other cars. I park away from the other cars because I want to avoid damaging another's car and it's juts plain easier to get in and out of the car when there aren't others very close to you. I hate it when I have my pontiac and someone parks so incredibly close that I have to slide into my door sideways just to keep from banging their car with my door. It's times like those when I'm sooooo tempted to... Uh ya know.

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krwlz

Lurkete your right, stepping on someones foot is more or less the same. You know what though? I get pissed when someone steps on my foot. Same for wine on my pants, and just about everything else like that.

Why? Because it shouldnt be my reponsibity to deal with it. It wasnt my fault, and yet there it is... a dent and a scratch on my car. Now I have to deal with something that resulted of someone elses negligence. That pisses me off.

Would I say your an evil person? Absolutly not. Would I say you shouldnt be able to Drive? Probably not, but I have never seen you drive, so I cant judge.

Would I be pissed, and probably yell, and get in your face if it was my car and I saw it? Almost definatly.

This goes out to everyone in the world. Keep your carelessness, and negligence to yourself. WHen you spill wine on your pants, or bump into something at your house, I couldnt care less.

But affect my property, and it angers me. Like raeanna74 said, if you might have a problem, park at the back.

Fearless_Hyena

lurkette -- Thanks for sticking with this thread, I certainly don't want to sound like I'm attacking you and I'm interested in your point of view. Would your reaction be the same, if there was damage, and she didn't stop or seem sorry about it? If someone hit your Miata, it would almost surely damage at least the paint and maybe more, since it doesn't really have a bumper.

I drive an RX7 which is similar to the Miata but larger, and it doesn't have a bumper. I just got it out of the paint shop, which cost me approx. $2000. If someone were to hit it, the paint repair would cost me a few hundred dollars. Can you see why I'd be angry if someone damaged my car through carelessness and didn't take responsibility for it, leaving me to foot the bill?

In contrast, last year I got rid of my '87 Buick POS. It had a real bumper, and was a real bucket anyway, so I could care less if someone dinged it, or backed into it, but if someone was driving carelessly and hit it, I'd probably be angry that they were not paying attention and putting other vehicles and people at risk. It would surely cause injury if you were to hit a pedestrian with the same force it would take to damage the bumper on that car.

lurkette

Thanks - it's felt a little like 'dogpile on lurkette' but I really brought it on myself. And keep coming back for more, oddly

[quote]Would your reaction be the same, if there was damage, and she didn't stop or seem sorry about it? If someone hit your Miata, it would almost surely damage at least the paint and maybe more, since it doesn't really have a bumper.[quote]

That might have been a different story - hard to tell, but you're right, I probably wouldn't have been as laid back about it if I had suspected it did some damage.

I can see why you'd be angry...I guess what I didn't realize is that people would actually PAY to have little scratches repaired - I just leave 'em. Then again, I live in the south where rust is not an issue. If I lived up north where snow and salt on the road are an issue, again, it might be a different story.

Thank's for being patient with me

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txlovely

Bumping other cars without a care is rude and demonstrates a certain ineptitude on the part of the driver, but is it worth getting wound up over? Probably not.

Where I live, it is impossible to keep a car showroom pretty. If I stressed about scratches, bumps, dings and dents, I'd never think about anything else. There are too many of us in too many cars, too much road work, too many big trucks and, the least of the concerns, people generally don't care about the property of others. That's not even considering the rocks thrown up that ruin your windshield, little junior flinging open his mom's giant SUV door and leaving its paint on yours as a special present, or the errant shopping cart. Sure, having your car beat up is frustrating, but being realistic and keeping life in perspective can cut down on the stress. Cars are meant for getting people from point A to point B. That's it. End of story. Like it or not, sky_driver's wife is doing that, in her own bumpy way.

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pocon1

txlovely said:
Cars are meant for getting people from point A to point B. That's it. End of story. Like it or not, sky_driver's wife is doing that, in her own bumpy way.

Uh, actually, cars are meant for whatever the vehicle owner wants it to be. For you, you can let your car turn into a beater. My wife and I take care of or two nice cars. We also have a shitbox, my 87 mazda rx7. I bought it as a beater, and it will probably stay a beater. But that does not mean that I trash other cars with it. I have huge doors because it is a 2 door, but I am very careful to never open my car into another's door, even if it means wiggling my 250 lb body through a narrow door opening. This does not mean that I will attack someone for hitting my car. Simply admit it was your fault and pay for the repairs, and everything will be hunky-dory. Be a big boy or girl. If I catch you trying to drive away, I will report you as a hit-and-run. If someone stole your wallet with 500 or 800 dollars in it, you would call the police. But people think nothing of causing that same dollar value in damage to someone's car and walking away. That is criminal.

Soggybagel

Man this is a pretty darn good conversation. I am kind of in the middle as far as things go. Little "bumps" that do nothing don't really bother me but if in fact I saw someone bumb a car and then just leave I'd be a tad bit angrier. Really it comes also down to the fact that everyone else has said. Personal property, some that people pay for with, yes, their hard earned cash despite the looks some take very personally. I remember a friend who had bought a older car that was pretty crappy in hindsight, but he took it very seriously if anyone did anything to it. Why? Because he paid for it through sweat and uhh maybe tears.

I also have to agree though that when someone elses negligence is at fault for my new design on my door I get angry. Also, I do drive an SUV...and my parking is usually pretty darn good.

Lastly maybe this belongs in a different topic but I have a question. I know guys can be pretty reckless, but it seems to me that all the girls I know drive much more recklessly (I.E. Lead foot and little attention paid to everyone around them as well as poor judgement in wintery weather). I live in MN so it can get ugly weather wise. IT just seems to me guys do dumb things willingly but girls do some crazy ass things in the car and still think its safe!?

pocon1

Maybe its a change in attitude for the sexes. Girls want to prove that they can do just as many stupid things as guys can. Casual sex, drinking, bad driving, tattoos, etc... "You don't have a license on stupidity, us girls can be just as stupid".

sky_driver

Thanks for all the comments. I guess I should have said in my origional post that there was no damage to the other car, and we did find out who owned the the car and told them. They came out, looked at their bumper and agreed that there was no damage. And, my wife said she will be more careful.

pocon1

Of course, we could just be like Saudi Arabia and not let our women drive. Then we won't have to worry about them.

Fearless_Hyena

thanks for checking in sky_driver -- your thread has taken a life of its own!! Great to hear that you actually did find the owner. It's been interesting to hear different people's point of view, but I gotta admit I'm still firm in my opinion. It really comes down to just being safe, and respecting other peoples' property; driving with appropriate caution, whether you're in the parking lot, around other cars or even pedestrians, or on the road.

txlovely

Yes, I would say that this was integral information! Good for you and your wife for having respect for the other person's property. I'd bet she was embarassed enough to be more careful.

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rodgerd

[removed] Seriously. As a motorcyclist, the worst time of the roads is after school, when people who think like you, or their wives, are on the roads. If you or your wife can't drive properly then STAY THE HELL OFF THE ROAD.

If is not OK to take the attitude that the appropriate response to being an incompetant driver is to buy a bigger car so you can kill people more effectively.

rodgerd

One of the more entertaining stories I heard on the disrespect fron came from a workmate; his brother has a bike. It seems a while back he was parked in a metered car park; he'd put the money in the meter and wandered off. When he came back, some dickwad was manhandling his bike.

When he enquired politely what was going on (without letting on it was his bike), the dickwad explained that the bike was in the carpark, and he was moving it out of the road. Brother points out that the bike is, in fact, legally parked and the meter is, in fact, paid up.

Dickwad says words to the effect of "so what, it's just a bike" and continues wrestling. At this point, brother, rather than doing is nut, waits for dickwad to look the appropariate direction, slips into dickwad's car which is stopped, in the middle of the road, with the keys in, and drives around the block, then walks back to his bike.

Dickwad is panicking, "my car has been stolen!"

No, says brother. It's just been moved somewhere else. Kind of like you're moving my bike.

rodgerd

OK, now you do need to get a grip. If someone steps on my foot an apologises, I'm not going to yell at them. That's just absurd. And if someone whose foot I stood on started yelling abuse at me, as you indicated you might, well, they'd get something not dissimilar in response.

I take care not to stand on people's feet, and I also take care to accept an apology with a modicum of grace. People who can't do the latter are as much a pack of arseholes as people who can't be bothered with the former, and just as responsible for the degenration of civil society.

krwlz

I didnt say Id yell because someone stepped on my foot, but I wouldnt be happy.

Also, my foot is not my biggest investment in my life. For most people their car is the second biggest investment. I dont have a house, so for me, its the biggest. Kinda pisses one off to have that fucked with.

Frowning Budah

My wife is a terrible driver. Mostly just close calls, but she drives too fast, doesn't pay attention, ignores traffic signs and the like. I have tried everything to try and get her to drive better, with no luck. Now if she is driving I just try and to stay calm and pray she doesn't kill us.

txlovely

You missed my point entirely. First of all, I live in Texas and not only do I probably drive more miles daily than you drive in a month, but I have to drive them in the pickup truck/SUV capital of the world! It is a very dangerous place and my car, although not tiny, is no match for the duellies that fly past me going 80 down the expressway. Who's to say who can and can't drive properly? I see people who, without their cell phones jammed in their ear, would likely be "proper" drivers. Now make those people soccer moms with three boucing darlings in the car, add a cell phone and put her behind the wheel of a Ford Excursion or an H2 (and no, before I'm attacked, I'm not singling out soccer moms - it can just as easily be a soccer dad on a cell phone swerving in and out of his lane), and let me assure you, God is the only one who can help you. Lots of Houston motorcyclists ride only on weekends in the suburbs and on country roads because if you take your Harley out in Houston traffic, be prepared to die. It's not bumped bumpers you're worrying about, it's your brains being splattered across five lanes. Most have signed the back of their driver's licenses making their wishes known regarding their stance on organ donation. Do I think that's fair or right? NO!

It's easy to rant and rave about drivers because we all see/know/are (you know who you are!) drivers who suck and, as is prerequisite, esp. in America, we love our vehicles. The original point was lost and frankly, when sky_driver enlightened us with the fact that he and his wife were accountable for her bump, the thread was over. No, it is not okay to damage someone's property and unless you're Donald Trump the investment you have in your car is very meaningful, but most importantly your life is more meaningful than your car. No one on this thread has advocated the destruction or even the minor defacing of a vehicle OR the fact that a bigger vehicle is the answer to a poor driver. Personally, I think we should all have to take a driving test every time we renew our license and that cell phone usage while driving should be outlawed.

Let's add a different twist - think of all the poor uninsured saps driving around who should be wearing corrective lenses but can't afford them. Chew on that little thought for a while. Maybe that's a whole new thread...

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Amarth

No advice, but that's probably the funniest thing I've heard in a while. *Chuckle*

james t kirk

Why don't you buy her one of those aftermarket electronic distance measuring alarms.

Put one on the front and one on the back. This way when she gets to within 12" or so (allowing for time to stop to 0") the alarm will sound and she will hit the brakes.

Simple.

space-n-'cord

I have found that most women my age cannot drive with any real skill whatsoever. I find my mothers driving to be downright sickening, and I would prefer to drive over ride with any of my female friends. I know 3 women who have been in major wrecks, while only one guy has managed to ruin a car. Most women can't drive.

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