frenik

I've been bouncing this about my head for a few weeks now, and I decided to post it here and see what everyone thinks about it.

Assume that the teleportation method is as follows:
1. matter is measured in teleport machine #1
2. measurement data is transferred to teleport machine #2
3. a checksum is run (this step is fail-safe, for arguments sake. no data will be misinterpreted or lost)
4. original matter at teleport machine #1 is destroyed
5. measurement data is used to recreate object in teleport machine #2

It is a way to travel with the speed of the internet, transforming your body into a few gigs of data piped over a fat future line, making transport to anywhere on the planet possible in under a second.

Would you use this method of teleportation? I have a few problems with it.

First of all, there's the philosophical question that depends on whether you believe that you posess a soul or not. For arguments sake, lets say you do (because if you don't, this point is invalid). What happens when your original body is destroyed? If your soul doesn't consist of measurable matter, when your body is zapped will it simply be released, and the body created on the other side will be soulless, because if the machine on one side couldn't measure it, the machine on the other side can't recreate it. Depending on your definition of the soul, this could be a major problem, but you can contemplate this based on whatever it is.

Then I'm a little uneasy about killing my body. Will I be in the body that is created on the other side, or will I be instantly dead? My new body will think that everything went through fine. After all, its brain tells it that it was there a second ago, it has the memories that my old body did. But in reality, it has only existed for nanoseconds. I'm trying to figure out if I have a problem with this. Does it really matter if my old body is dead, as long as there is a copy of my body that is completely the same as my old one, mind and all?

Any other strange problems that can arise from this form of teleportation? What are your opinions on the issues that I've brought up here?

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GakFace

If i read this correctly.. this was once an episode for "The Outer Limits" You'd teleport and it would create an exact you on the other teleport, but then there was a guy on the first teleport control panel that would "Balance The Equation" Aka Destroy the first copy. It was great technology and moved people to other solar systems... All the guy had to do was press a button when the person was confirmed at the other end.. then he'd "Balance the equation" The thing about this is so much a soul, but what happens when you get what the episode showed. They didn't get confirmation of her telporting... so she almost died in the process, but they saved her. The "Equation Balancer" then slowly fell in love with her trying to help her feel well again as the whole experience was traumatizing (because it failed). About a week later the man found out that it was just a glitch and that the woman teleported without a problem. Now he had to Balance the equation. What normally was just an "image" or at least was able to be thought as one, was now a real person, with a real mind.. one that he really cared for. Problem was that if he didn't "delete" her, then you're gonna get one freaky paradox when the other one returns. He couldn't do it.. As it now was murder. But since the technology was being taught by a more advanced species, he HAD to or else they'd lose it... He tried to get her to the teleport terminal so he could delete her.. and failed... He then tried to sneak her off.. so that no one would be the wiser. Soon he realized it just wouldn't work and closed the airlock on her until she sufficated.

THATS the big issue I think.. It'd be great and it would work off of instantaneous cloning of body, mind, and soul.(Just as possible, never know till its tried) Problem is when something goes wrong such as this.. Then what?

I guess its times like this when I'm glad to be happy from simple things.

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MrFlux

The thing about this is, how is your conciousness transferred to the other body? It would just be like creating a clone of someone: they may be exactly the same but they don't have the same conciousness. I guess this is sorta the same as the soul idea..

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alpha phi

I don't disagree with the soul point.
But a possible good point.....damaged organs or dieases could be "filtered" in the prosess of transport

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krazykemist

I gave a speech on this topic for COMM 211. It was basically a few magic tricks, some Star Trek lingo and about seven minutes of BS. I have read the Popular Science articles on teleportation and other scientific studies on the issue. After researching it for a while I have come to the conclusion that teleportation is like Communism. They are both good ideas but will never work like orginally designed. The abuses of the system you described would be extreme if someone is given the chance. For example lets say a convict escapes and makes his way to a teleportation machine. Not only is he able to get away but once there he can claim that the person who committed the crimes and escaped has been destroyed that they are no more. Since he is a completely new biological makeup this could be argued either way. Also it could have a huge impact on the economy as well. What if two people conspired to make a profit by teleporting gold or another valuable commodity only to choose not to destroy the original. They could continue this until they are satisfied. This could lead to gold being almost as valueable as the peso. Just like cloning there are a lot of sociological impacts that would need to be considered.

Personally I think it would be cool as shit and would be the first in line.

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GakFace

You ask how the mind would be a perfect duplicate? I tell you this, Nothing is impossible until it is shown. Catch 22? Exactly my point. You can't prove it wrong until it is. I can tell you it is impossible for me to grow wing and fly away, but then again, just because I don't know the means on how to do it, doesn't mean that the possibility doesn't exist. I ponder the abstract all the time. The "What IFs" are more fun than ever, and its a conversation that will never end. Anything is possible and thus there are limitless possibilities to the original question at hand. Thus I say to you, I don't know how, but you can't ignore the possibility that when teleported the mind is somehow duplicated as well.

Heck who knows maybe if we get the technology that will be a bonus that we never could have imagined.. or perhaps our mind will be DL into a computer, transmitted over the net and put into the new body... Unlimited life assuming the Transmission doesn't decay. Again, yet another idea that can't be proven wrong. It can be shown impossibe at the current time, but not overall.

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krazykemist

I just got another idea what if while you were in mid-transport the machine teleporting you was hacked
You would be at the mercy of a 12 year old Phillipino child who just thought he was downloading the warez for a new game. And what if once he gained control of the transmission his connection was interrupted because all the Jenna Jameson porn caused his p2p program to crash his computer. You would be stuck in cyberspace ove the ocean with an internet porn star....wait a minute this teleportation thing might not be such a bad idea after all...

Ok I'm going to go get some sleep now.

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Loki

i'm not really sure in all honesty. Before i'd use it i would most definitely want to see a preconditioned animal (i.e., preconditioned to sit as soon as it hears a bell) use the device, and see it responding to the bell, before i'd even consider using it.


If it did respond, my biggest concern would probably be contamination (remember the Fly? =))

GakFace

Yeah i remember that movie.. it was cool to watch at 2 am during the summer.. or was it a highschool school nite? eh.. Good movie either way And yeah that would most certainly suck.... Now you have me thinking of the simpons.. Homer would use it to get beer without leaving the couch.. to go to the bathroom from the couch... hehehehe Oh and Bart got spliced with a fly

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ratbastid

I want to teleport WELL encrypted, I'll tell you that for sure!

Here's my take on the soul business. If there is such a thing as a soul, then the body is the temporary carrier of it, yes? And so it must be somewhere in the physical makeup of the body or the brain or something that <I>consitutes</i> what a soul is.

So we don't even really need to understand that structure in order to teleport it successfully. We just need to be certain we're recreating it to a sufficient level of accuracy.

That's another point about this--the accuracy of reproduction does NOT have to be perfect. I don't care if a couple water molecules are out of place, but I definitely mind if my brain and my spleen change places.

platypus

In several of his stories, the sci-fi author Larry Niven explores the societal changes brought about by such a technology.

The Earth is covered with a network of teleportation or transfer booths. Anyone with a credit card, can step into any public-access transfer booth, swipe the card through the reader, and type in someone’s phone number. The booth teleports you to the booth nearest that person’s address.

In a world of instantaneous travel, you are never more than a jump or two from any person. You are essentially a next-door neighbor to every other person on the planet. Moving to a new city to escape that psycho ex is pointless when he/she can practically flick to your door.

The transfer booth would seem to provide the ultimate alibi for murder. You could kill someone in Tokyo and be back among alibi providing witnesses before anyone notices that you've gone. Problem is, your alibi is worthless when your displacement booth use, like your telephone use, can be tracked. So it doesn't matter that you "were home in bed" at the time of the killing.

Niven also describes a "Flash Crowd" which occurs when large number of people teleport into areas where news is being made at the moment, i.e. riots. Kind of like "farking" a website.

"A Flash Crowd happens like this: Riot begins, more rioters transport in after seeing riot begin on the news, more news reporters transport in, every johnny-come-lately wanting a view of the riot transports in, every mad religious cultist wanting exposure transports in as well as looters who are coming in to take advantage of the overwhelming crowds. By this point, no one can transport out of the area as the transport booths are blocked by even more hawkers wanting to view the riot."

He also presents a solution. Authorities turn off the "receiving" capability of all booths near the riot. They also set the "sending" destination of these same booths to a large holding pen, say a sports arena. As people leave the riot area, they arrive on the 50 yard line, and must be "processed" through the gates.



All plausible effects from a technology that current physics says is impossible, but who knows. It would definitely make this world a much smaller place. No point in National Geographic shows - just go see for yourself. And no more security hell at the airport.

I would welcome it.

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spectre

If it's a Microsoft product, you're fucked. Could you imaging BSOD'ing during the teleport? Thanks, but I think I'll pass.

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orbital

I would think that the destruction phase of teleportation is unavoidable. It would, in fact, take place during the measurement phase, for it is not possible to analyse a subject's constituents accurately and precisely without first reducing the subject to disassociated molecules.

Cuball

but after teleportation, you should be "switched on" again or something, because when you are 1 and 0's I don't think that's a state of living ... but what about nerve system etc ? isn't that based on electric pulsus etc ? and memory ? how is it stored in the brain ? completly biological ? or is it kept in place or something with tiny electric pulses ... I have no idea :-)


the only think I know is that teleportation is not for the near future, scientist managed to teleport a strangled quantum or something but even then :-)


I don't think anyway of us will hear the words: "Beam my up scotty" for real

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Cynthetiq

ask any neurosurgeon if he's ever seen a soul during brain surgery... or even a thought or memory for that matter...

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Minus000

Although they have found a way to move a molocule instantaneous, the amount of data just to move our physical body would be enormous. Something I heard (3rd person, didn't hear origonal article) but they believe we store about 1 terabyte of information in our brain about a single peice of corn. The smell, the tastes, the texture of the corn pod. Not even about the lifespan or growth of corn, just the single little corn peice.

I would never teleport even to "save" my life. Considering its a mirror image like clone, its still not you. Your destroyed and rebuilt a new. I would rather remain "whole"

jets

What I want to know why you assume this whole copy/delete scenario has to take place? Teleportation IMO means a person/object is moved from one place to another INTACT. Kinda like a worm-hole. So if that's the case than the whole soul debate is over and done with

Problem is that even if the process described worked, the person would be a vegtable I think...where would memories come from after replication? Would it know how to walk?

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holtmate

I think that jets has the right idea for proper teleportation.
But, the whole teleportation thing is pretty creepy when you analyze it. I don't much like the idea of being killed and put back together, myself.
Now, I just gotta find me a stable, controlled wormhole...

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G_Whiz

Just a little humor to this topic.

You mention the concept of this happening over the internet in a fat future pipeline. With my luck the sender or receiver would still be using a 56K modem.

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sixate

This isn't Star Trek. Never gonna happen, but if it was possible sign me up to be teleported to Britney Spears bed. I'd do it in a minute. Just think of how much time you would save in your life traveling. You could get to work, school, the strip club, or where ever you needed to be in just seconds. You could get a job in another state or country. There would be no limits.

louiedog

a thousand years ago they probably didn't think you could watch someone on the other side of the world(they didnt even know that existed) like they were outside of your window. fifty years ago no one thought you could watch such high definition porn in your living room and choose the angles. you can't say it'll never happen.

i think the poster's method sounds more realistic than the wormhole idea. recording the arrangement of atoms or just cells sounds less complicated than messing with the physics of worm holes.

stingc

To those people talking about memories and such, its electrochemical/structural. Neurons are connected in certain ways with electrical "weight factors" given by local ion concentrations, etc. Its easy to wipe out memories with a surgeon's knife, or to bring them up with some well-placed electrodes. There's no "soul" necessary to describe that. This is in principle a possibility, and has nothing to do with cloning (a MUCH coarser process).

I don't think this could ever happen for living objects though. Maybe things that could be frozen to very nearly absolute zero with minimal damage could eventually be transported (putting things into a coherent quantum state). Such methods could bypass the information problem, but are still very unlikely.

CBL65

Interesting idea, however it still violates the law of conservation of matter. No matter how quick the "deletion," even if its only for .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds, there will still be created matter on the other side.

stingc

I should add that photons have been recently been teleported in the lab. Despite all the common sense objections to the idea, quantum mechanics allows it, and it has been observed.

Phaenx

I'd use it, I certainly wouldn't be the first to test it.

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CBL65

Stingc, really? I want to read the article if u have a link, please.

stingc

Here's one of the first public mentions of the observation (1998):

http://pr.caltech.edu/media/Press_Releases/PR11935.html

Google quantum teleportation for links describing it to whatever level of detail you want, as well as info on improved experiments that have been done since.

WhoaitsZ

if i know a person has been teleported and did not go crazy or die or remember any 'long waiting' (like....... if it doesn't have an amnesiac affect and for some reason it took hours in that time frame) I would do it.

i'm a wimp. i won't try it first. as for souls..
god can give me another one if i lost mine on accident.

guthmund

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Nhanced1

I am just not comfortable with the idea of my original body being destroyed and recreated at the other end. the whole sixth day thing was not appealing to me because there was not a conciousness transfer. it was merely a recreation of memories. If i get transported, i want to go back to where i was transported from by means of regular transportation, and look at the body i was transported out of, in other words, i wouldnt have them "balance the equation" and if i go back over there and the body that I came from was still concious, Id know that i was nothing more than a clone and I wasnt the same person. the only way that transportation would work is if conciousness could be transferred, not just memory.

If you want to call that conciousness, a soul, okay. sure.

Maybe if matter wasnt destroyed and recreated, but rather actually transported. dissassembled, shot at light speed to the other location in a sort of stream, and reassembled. then I might be more inclined to try it.

Thanks for starting this thread, I often need to express my thoughts about things like this in order to think out my opinions on the subject.

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Daval

we can always test this technology on the prisoners at Camp X-ray or whatever its being called now.

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