U.S 'BUGGED' UN ON IRAQ - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Arc101 · 11-15-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

U.S 'BUGGED' UN ON IRAQ Nov 15 2003

A BRITISH intelligence officer, charged with leaking a memo on an American "dirty tricks" campaign, claims any wrong-doing on her part was justified.

Katharine Gun, 29, is accused of revealing US agents plotted to bug United Nations delegates to find out how they would vote on waging war against Iraq. Translator Ms Gun, accused of breaching the Official Secrets Act, said: "I've followed my conscience." She was arrested in March after a memo, allegedly from a US National Security Agency official ordering staff to eavesdrop, was leaked to The Observer newspaper.

It is claimed the GCHQ spy centre in Cheltenham, Glos, was asked by America to tap telephones and intercept emails.

Ms Gun, sacked from GCHQ in June, added: "Any disclosures were justified because they exposed illegality by the US who tried to subvert our security services."

She is due to appear in court on November 27.

So was she right to break the Official Secrets Act ? or do you think she should be thrown in jail ?

seretogis · 11-15-2003, 12:26 PM

She should be thrown in jail. She betrayed her country. :P

It's also not a surprise to hear this -- the US is the top dog and wants to know everything that may effect it. It doesn't make it right, though.

rainheart · 11-15-2003, 03:47 PM

Kind of reminds me of the watergate scandal.

She is right to have done what she did, anybody who thinks otherwise is too zealous and hardly righetous.

MSD · 11-15-2003, 04:10 PM

She's not a traitor, she did the right thing.

If it's only secret to hide wrongdoing on the part of those who make it secret, or their allies, then it's a coverup of illegal activities, not a matter of security.

remiel · 11-15-2003, 04:19 PM

funny how it's sometimes seen as worse to expose wrongdoing than to do wring in the first place.

Oh well, just the crazy mixed up world we live in

Jam · 11-15-2003, 06:22 PM

shes obviously not wrong

empu · 11-15-2003, 09:04 PM

She should definitely be put in jail. And she did the right thing. It was worth going to jail for.

The_Dude · 11-15-2003, 09:22 PM

link?

tricks · 11-16-2003, 01:44 AM

It's OK. The White House will probably out her husband in Russia working for the CIA.

"We have ways of dealing with those who speak too much..."

yp

dnd · 11-16-2003, 06:35 AM

she clearly did the right thing...who sanctioned the bugs? i'm very surprised gchq got involved too...

Sapper · 11-16-2003, 07:11 PM

This is unfortunate. Morally, she did the right thing because nobody will be hurt. These gross acts by the US must be made public.

This is the same as spying on your wife or husband - or anybody who you claim to hold dear.

Wrong, wrong, wrong - in every possible way.

nirol · 11-16-2003, 08:26 PM

Why is it a gross act to try and learn what others may do that will directly affect your national interests? This is what we pay those spooks to do. The US and UK have had a long reciprocal relationship among the security services and they often divide responsibilities in cases like this.

As far as not spying on wife or husband or anybody you hold dear"; Who ever said we hold any of these nations dear?

"Hold your enemies close, hold your friends even closer" is a quote that explains how real diplomacy works.

The United States suspected that France was going to oppose the Iraq resolution, they were surprised that France would bribe and threaten other members, and give important information about this to Sadaam.

obsvr · 11-16-2003, 11:17 PM

I agree with what nirol said. Honestly, this type of stuff goes on all of the time. We need to constantly make sure what people say to our faces is actually what they're saying amongst themselves, and to others. Actually, I would consider our government derilect in their duties if they weren't spying on various foreign countries.

rainheart · 11-16-2003, 11:22 PM

What does it matter if they know or don't know who is going to vote what?

The real implication of this is that they obviously planned to do something about this- otherwise they just wouldn't expend time and resources over it.

And if it's somehow justified, it begs the question of where you draw the line.

By the way the proverb is "Hold your friends close and your enemies closer".

bender · 11-17-2003, 08:46 AM

Spying and info gathering has been going on since we lived in tribes and chucked rocks at each other.
The only thing that seems out of place is that someone spoke up about it.

11-15-2003, 12:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	She should be thrown in jail. She betrayed her country. :P It's also not a surprise to hear this -- the US is the top dog and wants to know everything that may effect it. It doesn't make it right, though. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

11-15-2003, 04:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
remiel Insane Location: Gastonia NC	funny how it's sometimes seen as worse to expose wrongdoing than to do wring in the first place. Oh well, just the crazy mixed up world we live in __________________ "Then said Joseph to St. Mary, henceforth we will not allow him to go out of the house; for every one who displeases him is killed." Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, 20:16

11-15-2003, 09:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	link? __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

11-16-2003, 01:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
tricks Crazy	It's OK. The White House will probably out her husband in Russia working for the CIA. "We have ways of dealing with those who speak too much..." yp __________________ People Are Stupid. People can be made to believe any lie, either because they want it to be true or because they fear that it is.

11-16-2003, 06:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
dnd Psycho Location: London...no longer a student	she clearly did the right thing...who sanctioned the bugs? i'm very surprised gchq got involved too... __________________ "Never underestimate a dumb question"-- Brandon Boyd

11-15-2003, 03:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
rainheart Psycho	Kind of reminds me of the watergate scandal. She is right to have done what she did, anybody who thinks otherwise is too zealous and hardly righetous.

11-15-2003, 04:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	She's not a traitor, she did the right thing. If it's only secret to hide wrongdoing on the part of those who make it secret, or their allies, then it's a coverup of illegal activities, not a matter of security.

11-15-2003, 06:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jam Junkie	shes obviously not wrong

11-15-2003, 09:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
empu Crazy	She should definitely be put in jail. And she did the right thing. It was worth going to jail for.

11-16-2003, 07:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sapper Insane Location: The Internet	This is unfortunate. Morally, she did the right thing because nobody will be hurt. These gross acts by the US must be made public. This is the same as spying on your wife or husband - or anybody who you claim to hold dear. Wrong, wrong, wrong - in every possible way. __________________ rm -f /bin/laden

11-16-2003, 08:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
nirol Crazy Location: South East US	Why is it a gross act to try and learn what others may do that will directly affect your national interests? This is what we pay those spooks to do. The US and UK have had a long reciprocal relationship among the security services and they often divide responsibilities in cases like this. As far as not spying on wife or husband or anybody you hold dear"; Who ever said we hold any of these nations dear? "Hold your enemies close, hold your friends even closer" is a quote that explains how real diplomacy works. The United States suspected that France was going to oppose the Iraq resolution, they were surprised that France would bribe and threaten other members, and give important information about this to Sadaam. __________________ 'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

11-16-2003, 11:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
obsvr Upright	I agree with what nirol said. Honestly, this type of stuff goes on all of the time. We need to constantly make sure what people say to our faces is actually what they're saying amongst themselves, and to others. Actually, I would consider our government derilect in their duties if they weren't spying on various foreign countries.

11-16-2003, 11:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
rainheart Psycho	What does it matter if they know or don't know who is going to vote what? The real implication of this is that they obviously planned to do something about this- otherwise they just wouldn't expend time and resources over it. And if it's somehow justified, it begs the question of where you draw the line. By the way the proverb is "Hold your friends close and your enemies closer".

11-17-2003, 08:46 AM	#15 (permalink)
bender Addict Location: around the corner	Spying and info gathering has been going on since we lived in tribes and chucked rocks at each other. The only thing that seems out of place is that someone spoke up about it.