Revenge
 

Revenge: To inflict punishment in retaliation for personal injury.

I recently have done something that I now feel bothered about. I?m a person that strives to live by four ideals: to always stay true to my word, to always do my best, not to assume what others are thinking, and not to take thinsg personally. I fall short of those more often than not; or at least a couple. Out of the many lessons I've learned and continue to learn in life; I seem to be having difficulty in establishing knowledge in a particular area. This is acting on behaviors and intentions of revenge. Personally even though I've become skilled in this dark truly self destructive path, it?s not something I've ever felt proud of doing.

I won't go into why I did this, but the recent event mentioned, I have come to realize that I did some real damage. The person (target) did something that I allowed to put me into revenge mode. (in other words they indirectly were still controlling me-or I was allowing that) I made a flyer stating that this person was a child molester and pornographer with a detailed map pointing to their house and address. Afterward I made about 10,000 copies and spread them through that entire neighborhood, including local stores and bulletin boards.

Its short of what I really wanted to do but I'm not in a position where I can have any trouble with assault charges put against me, so this was the choice from my "rolodex of damage".

Even though I was smiling while doing it, now I feel the only person I've really damaged is myself. In any case: I know different situations bring forth different emotions. Such as if anyone physically harmed someone I love I would probably go to jail. Outside of hurting a loved one I wanted to know what anyone else thought about revenge in a general sense. Do you feel that a majority of the time its worth doing? Is there anyone that has never acted on impulses of revenge?

wow that's pretty harsh, I hope they were deserving of such a punishment.

I think people get what they deserve, whether or not I'm the one to dish out their just desserts depends on how strongly I feel about what they've done and how well I could carry the revenge out. for the most part, karma works too slowly for me.

No. I don't have that emotion in me. I don't know why. It's a fairly common human emotion/motivation. I am more concerned with my own life and well-being than I am concerned with the people's lives that may be responsible for doing damage.

What I am saying here is acting out of the emotion/motivation of revenge only hurts oneself. Why? Because it lowers one to the level of one’s enemies and it is self-destructive in many ways.

You are a very intelligent person. I have come to respect you. I am actually surprised by what you are saying here. But since you are willing to be so honest I believe I can be equally honest in my response.

The most intelligent thing to do here is to see the emotion/motivation for what it is. It is an error of judgment because it does harm to oneself to act out of revenge. It is far wiser and more effective to ignore ones enemies than it is to seek to achieve revenge. In general, not only do I ignore my enemies I typically disengage from them once I have identified their maleficent nature. If anything like direct action is needed, however, I do confront them both publicly and privately until they are made aware of my judgment against them. Those confrontations have become less and less frequent, since even the act of confrontation does tend to bring one down to the level of ones enemies.

Here’s a bit of advice from William James:

“The art of being wise
is the art of knowing
what to overlook.”

I agree with what Art said.
Revenge does not really make you feel any better and two wrongs dont make it right what ever they have done. What had they done by the way?

Ouch, thats fuckin harsh.....
Revenge for me seems somewhat pointless. Everybody gets what they deserve in the end. What can anybody do that could possably be worse that what the reaper man has in store?
Besides after they die you can giggle yourself silly and piss on their graves every hour on the hour if you really want.

Re: Revenge
 

It would help a little if you mentioned something in brief what this person did to you. I would hope for your sake also if your actions are not entirely truthful that no one goes and kills this guy or you may be found responsible.

Revenge does indeed leave a bitter taste in your mouth. It's kind of like procrastination- it feels good at first but you feel worse and worse as time goes on.
my own revenge story is from 11th grade, i got beaten up in the hall for no reason at all by three guys (bullies) i could have taken one or maybe two of them but all three laid a harsh beatdown on me. I was feeling real pissed so i broke into one of the guy's trucks and filled it with expanding insulation foam. the hard stuff. He had to get it towed and i never saw it again. It did feel good while i was doing it but man i regret it now. Empathy kind of sucks sometimes

Only yourself? You don't think that you've potentially damaged the reputation and maybe the life of the other person?

People take child molestation very seriously, as well they should. Something like this could potentially get your subject evicted from his neighborhood. Or beaten. Or killed. People might look at this person differently for the rest of their life.

I would be also curious to know what this person did to you that caused you to react in such a way. Also, I'd like to know if you've seen any repercussions from what you've done.

I'm sorry to sound judgmental, but in my heart I think that what you did is really horrible. Do you feel bad about it because of what you've potentially done to the other person, or do you feel bad because you enacted revenge in general?

My thoughts on revenge: if I ever get "revenge," it's always in a relatively harmless way. I've sent enemies magazine subscriptions and catalogs for gay porn. :) I'm with Art; I find that most people that do me wrong aren't worth my getting upset with. Revenge feels good for a little while but ultimately makes me feel like I stooped to their level.

My two cents worth. I know it's not nice, but it's honest.

I myself have always been a firm beleiver in Karma. What goes around comes around......

I have had the oppertunity for revenge serveral times and never acted upon it bc I knew in the long run the person whould get what they had coming to them. From what I have heard it always turned out that way.

I would say go take down the damn fliers. Even if you have to do it in the middle of the night. Just hope that you didn't ruin this persons entire life over this.

I firmly belive in an eye for an eye routine, or two eyes if they really piss me off.
I dont go out of my way to hurt anyone, so I don't like it when some-one dose it to me.

i would hope that what you did was in fact merited - however - if not, you lied.

you may very well have ruined this persons life, and for that, you should be punished to the full extent of the law. you slandered this person and took away his freedom. you acted as judge, jury and hangman.

may i suggest that you pull them all down and place a notice in the local paper that your action was in fact a lie and that this person was the front for a very malicious act.

i feel sorry for you.

Re: Revenge
 

You may not have assault charges filed against you, but if your mark finds out your identity, you may be in for a steaming bunch of legal problems. There are laws against libel and what you did fits the legal definition.

Why should he be punished by the law? He does regret his decision, doesnt he? Laws are merely a creation of society and they're only there to ensure the security of those living in it. They're not there to punish. We don't put people in prisons to punish them but to prevent them from doing harm to other people in society (well, that's how at least it was intended to be). He did act impulsively, but since he regrets it and wouldnt do it again if the situation arose, he should be forgiven. You don't get to judge what should be done to him. If you don't think he payed the fair price by feeling the guilt for the actions he's done, well there's karma to take care of things. You acuse him of acting as judge, jury and hangman. Yet, NOBODY (human anyway) should be given the power of judging an other human being. I don't see how it's different to have society (which is a human invention too) act as judge, jury and hangman. As far as I see things, laws are just the judgement of other humans on this human. How is this better?

The way I've always seen it, laws don't always mean good. I don't know why people always associate laws with good. Laws are made by humans, and because we are not perfect, our inventions aren't either. That's why there lawyers in today's society. We shouldn't need lawyers, but because the system is so fucked up, we do. Laws are like the big kid in the school yard. Because he's the strongest kid there, and is somewhat fair in his judgement, people respect him and go by his rules. That doesn't mean he's good though.

Re: Re: Revenge
 

Libel is right. Considering the huge potential for physical and monetary damage that this act of revenge could produce, you could be sued for thousands, if not millions in compensative damages to this person.

As much as I could plan out some revenge schemes (and as bad as this may sounds, I feel like one more push and I'm putting one into action even though I know the result will be completely destroying someone's life) I usually rely on Karma to get the job done for me.

I'm sure there where better ways to have dealed with whatever this guy did to you than ruining his life. It may not have seemed like a big deal at the time, but this action could follow him through life. Also, you are not free from legal action. He could sue you blind if he ever found out who it was. Think, slander. And it wouldn't be difficult to find out who you are, after all, all he has to do is go to the local print shops, and find out who printed out 10,000 slanderous flyers.

Something sounds fishy to me. Don't most print shops look at what they're copying for people before they copy them? I know that if I go into Kinkos with sheet music, they won't copy it because it's copyrighted material. And wait, Sun Tzu, you're saying that you actually put 10,000 copies all over the neighborhood? Maybe it's because I just can't believe that somebody actually would do such a thing, but this is all starting to sound highly suspect to me.

500 sheets to a ream / 2 reams to a bundle / 5 bundles to a bale

used the office copier

I prefer grace over justice. I don't want justice, because I am a flawed human that has made and continues to make mistakes. Therefore, I try to exhibit grace and forgiveness towards others.

I'm not always successful. I'm a flawed human.

I'm impressed by the wisdom of your insights. I hope that you can learn to tame the beast of revenge.

*I could not moderate myself, so I was moderated.*

Shit, now he is going to track me down and if he is a better position to deal with an assault charge beat me up.

Don't ruin your life or others with how you react to something. Be the bigger man and move on and forward in your life.

Pretty rude response to someone who had the balls to spill his guts about something that he was ashamed of.

Sun Tzu, I am concerned about your behavoir.

It gives me the impression that you lack maturity. I wonder if seeking some counselling would help you understand your feelings.

If dark behavoirs are left to grow they can cause the behavoirs to become too extreme.

Seriously, I am not trying to be a smart ass. But if you could hold onto your anger long enough to exact a premediated revenge then that is sign that you have anger issues.

What you did only caused more harm. If you think the fellow needs to be dealt with then involve the law.

Have you ever considered that what you did was not only morally wrong ... but illegal??

remind me never to piss you off.. you play mean :)

Jeez Sun Tzu... remind me not to get on your bad side. The provocation for that revenge must have been very serious - but I cant think of anything that would warrant that sort of responses, unless the guy was in fact a child molester.
I've pulled more than my share of pranks and served up a lot of revenge but that is beyond revenge...

There is a person I’ve had a friendship with practically my whole life. She’s the sister I didn’t have by blood. 2 years ago she became involved with a man who I can’t even begin to define. After a couple black eyes she took my advice and got a restraining order. Although she was never physically attacked he continued to harass her in ways that kept him just outside of being arrested. 4 months ago her young daughter said this creep was waiting outside her school when she was released. The girl got a ride home from a carpooling mom, but she didn’t see him talk to her. The authorities were notified and his response was he was walking that way and was not on school grounds; and simply said “hello” to her. He was charged because he wasn’t even allowed to do that, but was out of jail a week later.

Her car was vandalized and had a substance poured into the gas tank ruining the engine. Dead animals have been left at her doorstep and other things I won’t mention. Due to the fact there has never been a witness and this person had an “alibi” each time, the individuals that are hired to serve and protect had their arms crossed. I installed a surveillance system both in and outside of her home. It remained quiet for a brief amount of time, until she and her daughter came home to find their dog dead on their doorstep; someone had given it a piece of meat with poison. Again the authorities were notified, and she was notified that an investigation would be underway. They did state that without incriminating evidence; circumstantial would do little good even if it existed.

A couple weeks ago she had an unmarked card with hotdogs and smiley faces on it and nothing else.

The physical assaults sustained nearly sent me over the deep end. I became a little pissed when she didn’t report him---and that’s ultimately her choice. She did however know when it was time to drop this loser; the only problem did not know what kind of a psycho he was. I’ve been grinding my teeth a long time, both at the man and the police. When I found out he talked to the girl is when I spent the night in jail for assault. He slept like a baby in his own bed that night—it’s probably just as well. I spent a pretty penny and attended 10 hours of anger management (mandatory) to have the charges dismissed (although they never truly are) He attempted to sue me and lost. I think the violation may have helped there. The dog . . . . I won’t comment what went through my mind. No; there was no proof, but I know it was him or someone associated with him.

I care about my career, my life, and desire to be a giver over being a taker in life. The amount of restraint I’ve placed on me has been great. I will also add this man does have a wealthy bank account---which he inherited. I think this places him in a certain light in the eyes of some. While some may know him for what he is; there’s many that don’t. When I saw the card; it’s almost as if an autopilot kicked in.

2 wrongs don’t make a right. It was an immature and malicious thing to do. I understand that in some cases of spouse battery and harassment the inflicted is just as much to blame because of fear and self worth issues---although I still have no mercy for the aggressor. That is not the case here. Legal channels have been taken, and for the most part have failed. I think many would be shocked in the 2 people I approached for advice before doing my intended action. Although neither could assist me because of what their professions are, both thought it was justified and offered the assistance in other ways.

At the end I feel bad and need to evaluate allot of things. I believe in karma as well. I suppose that when this took place (in the moment) I was willing to accept the cosmic consequence that I would be bestowing upon myself. I remember something a sensei told me a long time ago: “I will do my best not to physically engage with a person. There does come a point when deflection no longer becomes an option and the person becomes an opponent. It is then the person’s poor judgment that they realize to late; they are not an opponent but an enemy. Because I have no true hatred for anyone I will physically inflict enough tactical damage to them that the memory of the experience never leaves them. In doing so it will assist them in perhaps not repeating the same action to someone that will kill them or save someone else from being harmed”.

My fear of legal recourse from this extends as far as me putting the experience up on a public forum. Do I care if I have damaged this person in this dark action? I don’t know. I have learned a couple things. At this point and with the help of some friends much wiser than I will let Karma run its course and feel confident things will work out as they should.

No offense taken, theres a good chance I would feel the same way had I heard this from another. I actually had counseling a few years ago in dealing with a break up. An aching heart is proably the worst pain Ive felt. So in speaking for myself couseling has had its place and been a useful tool in the past. Other than this area most who know me personally entrust me as an honorable person. This was a difficult evolution for me. I have allot to work on, but I dont think I would find it on that particular path. I value your input or else I wouldnt have made this thread. It will be just a matter of looking at what is effective and not effective in contributing to me being the man I strive to be.

Sun Tzu, I just read the details of the situation that you find yourself in.

I see that you do understand your behavoir and that this is not a case of immaturity.

If I was in your position I would have done something. I am not sure what I would have done. But I would have done something.

The fact that you are bothered by what you did tells me that you are in fact a good person.

Keep up your diligence to catch this guy and I hope he doesn't drag you down to his level in the process.

I have nothing else to say because your situation is out of my realm of conprehension.

All I can say is, you'd better hope you didn't make the copies at the local copy shop, 'cause if you did and this guy calls the cops, they can find out who you are and you're up a creek.

That said, if this guy were doing that to my friend I'd probably act myself. I wouldn't do anything as crazy as what you did - I'd figure out some way to stop the situation while hopefully keeping myself out of trouble.

Well, as far as the posters are concerened, if even ONE person saw you putting them up, you are royally, A-1 fucked up the ass, no two ways about it. The cops know you hate him, it won't be hard to put 2 and 2 together.

As far as the story goes... I too have a sister by all but blood who i've known since basically her birth, when I was 4. If something like this had happened to her, and the things you describe, I'd have taken him out. No doubt. I'd have blown his car up to hell and back, with him at the wheel.

I'm not big on revenge, not at all- but you do NOT fuck with my people. In fact, you can do damn near anything you want to me, but if you threaten my girl, or my family, or someone close to me, God himself will punish you through my hands, I swear it.

He represents a clear and present danger. I, for one, admire your restraint- not in what you've done, but in what you haven't done. You seem to have held yourself in for quite some time, and it comes across in your style and cadence of speech. You have what I like to call, "Quiet Rage". The kind that just builds inside... you want to tear their heart out, but to outward appearances, you're smiling or indifferent.

Good luck, and don't listen to those who put you down. Listen to your heart, and you'll know if you truly deserve such harsh words. If you really are sorry for doing it, I applaud you. I would feel absolutely zero remorse.

Karma exists

Sometimes it needs a helping hand

The law is irrelevent when my loved ones are threatened

This may not justify it, but I simply do not care

I strongly believe that vigilante justice should only be used when the law has failed. Having said that, I woulud not have been able to show the restraint that you did in that situation.

I think that you fully understand your action, and although you know that he deserved worse, you kept your hands off of him. Even so, you feel remorseful for doing it. Draw your own conclusion from that.

You a gangster or something? Violence won't solve anything. In any situation, it's always easier to destroy than it is to act contructively. Destroying might make you feel better for the next few minutes, but in the long run, you're hurting yourself. And if the other guy has friends like you?

Revenge is a dish best served cold. With a pinch of vinegar. Maybe a little ginger. And a side of mashed potatoes.

DOH! damn, dude, I understand your hate but what you did is just way too fucked up. I will not frown at all if i see you on CNN for being arrested.

if I and friends found out about a child molester we'd get him beat shitless. the guy deserves it, sure, but not on these grounds. a child molester is the absolute lowest of people. they should die. what if we killed him?

now as you guys know, i can be pretty tough on people like this. the law exists to protect and cover the asses of politicians. they should be tried first, however. if they fail... take care of it.

you should had confronted and beat him senseless. but to do what you did is just fucking wrong.

and for the make love not war only people. I seem to remember some jewish people helped out greatly by violence. Germany's murdering rampage was not stopped by diplomacy or kind words.

I hate violence. but when it is neccesary, do it and do it right. if you're man enough to draw blood then be man enough to pay.

avoid violence when possible. maim them when you act. it's that simple.

dunno if youre referring to me, but surely, its not violence that solved the problem. Look beneath the surface.

i as well don't act upon revenge... just let the feeling pass

what pisses me off is when i dont act upon it, and later see something happens to that person, but he doesnt realize why and keeps on doing whatever it was he did

Violence <b>can</b> solve <b>some</b> things. *Random sarcastic comments I decided to remove before posting*.

You <b>cannot</b> say that in ALL cases, there is a non-violent way to solve things, and make them equal- or even CLOSE to equal. Automatically eliminating an option (violence) from your problem-solving methods makes your methods weaker.

I would like to convey my thoughts on this, as a serious debate of the specific pros and cons using examples and reasoning. Consider for a moment, if you will:

If you don't consider violence as an option, which is obviously the most drastic measure, then how can you accurately measure the relative pluses/minuses of your other options?

Example- If a guy grabs your wife or girlfriend on the ass, you have several options open to you.

You can...
1. tell him his actions were inappropriate, and that if someone did that to HIS wife, or sister, or mother, or daughter, HE'D not like it either (a good, non-violent answer to the problem)
2. punch him in the face
3. punch him in the face and then beat the shit out of him while he's crying on the ground...

if you don't take into consideration ALL available options, you'd fail to see the TRUE power of each option, and you will not be as ready to handle the situation should it turn toward violence, which you'd not originally considered.

If he were to then tell you "fuck off, you want to make something of it?", and PUSHED you, and you'd originally not considered an act of violence as a possible option, you could suddenly and- without thinking- react to his pushing with a return of violence or take too long in reacting to his violence, giving him an edge over you. You've now put yourself AND the person you're trying to protect into actual jeopardy. <i>Now</i> try to resolve it without violence.

In any situation, regardless of what facet of life you're talking about, you can never really master the art of negotiation and fully control your surroundings unless you consider every option available to you, and fully understand the benefits and risks of them.

That is why, in my opinion, saying "violence solves nothing", and immediately dismissing it, can only be a detriment to your decision-making skills, making you less effective than someone else.

Few people have friends like me. The thought of such has never deterred me from doing what I feel is necessary, but I DO consider the possibility- and the consequences of my decisions.

(wow, i CAN have a calm debate! lol :) )

I feel that revenge is usually pointless. I prefer confrontation. In your situation, it may have been wiser to actually talk to the guy.

As for violence never solving anything - in some occasions it actually does. But you have to make damn sure it is the last resort until you take that step. And not for the sake of revenge.

Sun Tzu - as for what you did, I don't see how it would help your lady friend. This whole ordeal was about her in the first place, right?

Your objective should have been to get him off her back from day one. Trying to hurt the guy because HE pissed YOU off, doesn't really make sense.

I'm not saying I would have been more mature about it, but I definetely wouldn't have done it the way you did it.

That case is very different from the one I was criticizing you about. You were talking about using violence to get revenge on someone who would dare touch "your people".

Violence didn't solve anything. Let me get one thing clear. When I say "violence", I mean the destructive way to deal with things. I every situation, I believe there are 2 general paths you can choose: that of "construction" and that of "destruction". Destruction is always easier. Destruction gives you instant gratification at the expense of long term damages. This, I believe, applies to everything .

It's because I've considered the violent option that I'm having this debate with you. I did consider it and I've come to the same conclusion for every situation I've ever been in and most likely will ever be in in my life.

Now, Id like to get back to your example. You didn't make it very clear which option you thought was the best. I don't know if you meant punching him in the face was the best option so I'll wait for your reply. If you want, you can include another example in which you consider violence would be the best option and I'll try to debate it.

I wasn't trying to tell anyone how to act, I was providing an example in which your choice to automatically exclude violence as an option at the onset of conflict can cause you to falter, or leave yourself vulnerable.

And now I'll answer your question directly: if I could take the guy, I'd tell him to fuck off and keep walking. If he yelled after me, I'd keep walking, staying quiet. If, however, he followed and made more of an ordeal out of it, I'd lay him out. He's a scumbag, and committed sexual battery. Maybe he just needs to be taught a lesson. Lots of people need one good "awakening" to set them straight. And you know what, if that's 1% of all scumbags, then I still have a shot at making a difference.

If I had no prayer of kicking the guy's ass, I'd ignore him and keep walking, away from him, to a safe place. If he followed, and tried to get physical, i'd do my best to defend the girl. I may not win, but I'll sure as hell put up a long enough fight for the girl to get to a safe place. Really the only difference between whether or not I could kick his ass is that if i could, I'd PROBABLY at least talk some shit to him first. I can't tell you I wouldn't, I'm sure i'd be lying.

I don't have a super ego, I don't think I can beat up anyone I want, i don't WANT to beat people up. I'm a fairly religious person and abide by basic principles of decency every day of my life. I'm 22, and have been in exactly 2 fights. One was in middle school (age 13 or so) over something as stupid as a game we used to play on the bus gone wrong, and the other was because a guy in a club was harrassing the girlfriend (the girl is also a VERY good friend of mine) of a guy who's a friend I consider my brother. He confronted the guy, saying, "Hey, she didn't come here with you, and she didn't ask you to bother her. She told you no, take it like a man and walk away, ok?" He's a great guy in many respects, and is also VERY protective of his girl. By the time I hear him get 3 words in, I've already gotten her behind me, and i'm standing just next to/behind my friend. He finishes what he was saying, and the guy sucker punches him in the face. My friend staggered back, almost falling, but I snuck around him and punched the guy in HIS face. He hit the floor. The room we were in was the techno room, which has weird angled walls, so no one could see us where we were. No one else came to help. He muttered something about "you son of a bitch" and I ignored it, and told my friend to take her away and out of the club, i was just going to stand there a minute and make sure he could get out without the guy attackign them again. And then he said, as he stood up, "looks like she's looser than an old whore anyway." I put him back on the floor, I kicked him in his crotch, and then I twisted his arm behind his back. At that point, I realized things could only go worse from there, so I simply said, "don't be an asshole." and left.

My friend was sucker-punched because he didn't consider violence as an option, and left his guard down. If I wasn't there, who knows what could have happened to him and his girl?

I still feel bad for going as far with it as I did, but only because I let my emotion override my reasoning, which was telling me I could go to jail, not because I'm remorseful of my actions.

I absolutely believe in violence as a last resort ONLY, in EVERY case, but to deny it as an option will only serve to partially blind me and blunt the sharp edge of my abilities.

Since you asked, I'll provide another example. Most people who are shot in their homes during a break-in are shot because they falter, and are vulnerable at the point of decision.

Part of safety training for firearms is that you should NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you specifically intend to shoot them- not to threaten them, not to intimidate them, but to shoot them. These people are shot in their own homes because they make a choice to pick up a gun they keep for self-defense. These people are shot because at the moment of decision, they will foolishly raise their gun, and their life-long unwillingness to accept violence as an answer will cause a delay in pulling the trigger. The other person has no such delay and, seeing the gun pointed, will shoot you first. If you go through life always refusing one portion of a thought process, that part WILL FAIL YOU when it is supposed to help you, because you've trained yourself to ignore it.

I didn't even really mean for this to be about violence, because it holds true for anything. Why limit yourself? You can only learn more from thoroughly analyzing all aspects of a situation, and not fully exploring leaves gaps in your knowledge. I strive for knowledge and better understanding in all things.

This might seem like an oversimplification for the sake of a terse saying, but I've always felt that the best revenge is leading a successful and enjoyable life (which does not include focusing your energy on the offending party).

Sun Tzu, you probably acknowledge it now, but your energy could've been much better spent. Dealing with people like that outside the law is just more trouble than it's worth. And for some trivia: that goofball Tom Arnold actually did something very similar to what you did except the man in question really molested him. That doesn't bother me so much because he sincerely wanted to protect the children in the community of his hometown and could do nothing legally because of the statute of limitations.

i think you acted to quickly, and did irreparable harm, always wait a least a week before acting on your emotions, and then really think how easily you can fix what you have done. There is no way you can undo what you did. No possible way. And yes it could have legal repercussions, it is liable or slander (I don’t recall which) and it was done with the intent to harm. If revenge is what you need find a less destructive method. Good luck with the repercussions.

I did confront him verbally; in person, by certified mail, by email. When I was informed he approached her daughter at her school is when I confronted him physically. Actually I approached him and his associate at his residence. That’s the one night I spent in jail. As a result of him being charged with violating a restraining order by approaching the little girl, and being forced to attend an anger management course (not to mention an extremely expensive attorney) the charges were dropped. His friend did not press charges for reasons I won’t go into.

The fact he approached a child, even for reasons in possibly alarming her mom is creepy enough for me to make certain assumptions. Men (or adults in general) that don’t have children going to a school and don’t have official duties have no business lerping about talking to the kids. She would have yelled stranger but she didn’t because of knowing him. In my eyes that’s not only violating a restraining order, but the innocence of a child.

This is a case where law enforcement has failed. The guy has been pretty slick in his harassment tactics so there’s little they could do. I don’t know if I've ruined his name, but I know there are more eyes on him now. So far I haven’t seen any legal trouble from what I did. I’m helping my friend move to an undisclosed location this weekend. Should there be any further harassment by this person I will not become involved or go anywhere near him, nor do anything of a harmful nature to him physically, psychologically, or socially. That’s all I will comment on that.



I appreciate all the feedback, even the "shame on you"s, but I didn’t mean to bring the negative energy to the forum. I feel bad because I might have planted a flame foundation here, not my intention at all. Debate is cool I just hope arguments don’t start because of a thread I started.

I think all of the people I seen post in this thread and most in other threads sound like decent people that are checked in to the world around them. For the gents that are starting to get elevated, I'll just comment on this: it’s good to have a belief system in the way an intended control of feelings, emotions, and actions will be in a threatening or confrontational situation. 3 years ago I wouldn’t have seen myself doing the things I did.

Personally I have to say it was different when it was reality and I saw someone I love being hurt. Not once, but repeatedly. I hope no one here has to put their values and self control to the test; it truly feels like a dammed if you do / dammed if you don’t scenario.
Thanks again everyone for offering your opinions; they are all valued.

Ill start with that statement. Your friend most likely would have gotten punched wether he decided to act violently or not. I think what you meant is that had he attacked first, he couldve avoided the whole situation. You know, really can't do anything once the other decides to go violent, BUT it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to use violence to prevent the other from doing harm. You might as well kill anyone whom you suspect can be dangerous so that they can't touch you. See what I mean?

Let's isolate the incident to have a better understanding of the problematic of the situation. Let's pretend there are no consequences legally. Now, let's see what your friend can do (before or after getting punched in the face). He can either choose to go violent or not. If he chooses to replicate physically, one of the 2 would likely end up badly wounded or worse, dead. As I said earlier, choosing destruction gives you instant gratification at the expense of long term damage. Now, your friend might feel better if he won the fight and feel like he's safe now but the truth is that the problem is not solved yet. It's possible that the other guy gets all his friends to get revenge and gets your friend beaten senselessly. The problem is not solved and it can keep escalading. It's also possible that he never meets the guy again and don't hear about it ever again, but he'll have to fear the possibility that he could. But that's not the reason why I say his problem isn't solved. If he always chooses violence as the solution to his problems (wether it's the first option or the last one, doesn't matter) he will most likely meet someone stronger than him physically someday who'll kick the crap outta him. Your friend can also choose not to act violent. If he gets punched in the face he can get up and tell the agressor that he still won't fight. Violent people are so because they feel inferior somehow or are unable to solve their problems differently. At the core, their goal isn't to destroy someone, but to show their superiority. They got something to prove. If you choose not to fall in his game and decide not to fight, the other will feel as if he's won and proved that he was superior. His goal reached, he most likely won't keep fighting. Someday, maybe he'll realize he was the weaker man for resorting to violence, but for now, you're safe and your problem is completely solved. You don't have to fear any comeback from the guy ever again.

You have to realize violence isn't always physical. Saying "fuck you" is a violent act and while it may seem inoffensive, it can easily escalatate into fists fights and worse. These people get shot because they choose violence as an option before the break-in, by equiping themselves with a gun, and after the break-in by threatening the agressor with a gun. Should these people had chosen not to buy a gun or not to use the gun during the break-in, they would still be alive. Threatening someone is a violent act and goes into the category "destructive" solution.

No, I meant if he'd considered violence as an option, he'd have readied himself and not fallen victim to a surprise attack. I myself had appraised the situation and was honestly ready for violence. Had the sucker-punch been directed at me, he'd never have hit me, because I was mentally prepared. And, no, I don't have superhuman reflexes, I have the reflexes of a person who's taken several years of martial arts training- and don't bother asking because i'm not elaborating on it.

I'm done with this exchange, because it seems like an endless back-and-forth. I recognize your viewpoints, and many of them make perfect sense in the defense of a perpetually non-violent person. The only thing I was trying to get across is that I personally believe you are at the greatest advantage when you are able to consider all possibilities in any situation, and that includes the violent ones.

No, that's an asinine statement taking something I've said to an absurd extreme, and precisely the reason this debate can go on no longer. I appreciate your candor in this thread, but it's now a pointless endeavor.

This kind of Revenge is pointless and only exaggerates a bad situation. Wronging someone who has wronged you just makes you the same kind of bastard that you were pissed off at. I am not digging Sun Tzu because he obviously feels bad about what he did but that doesn't mitigate the damage he did.

Ignore the assholes and don't let them get to you. Reacting to the shit that someone dishes out only extends the bullshit and makes everything worse. Let it go and avoid the assholes.

What if they were to pull your children into it, kill your pet, destroy your property, and have managed to find indirect ways of harassment which had essentially narrowed down to psychological assault---and only spent a week in jail and still continued? If your first reaction is to call authorities-- it had been done multiple times. If your second was to reason, then firnly reason with the person--- that had been done. Cameras-- done, guard dog. . . well they killed it. Anything beyond that I dont see you advising because of the point you've raised. DO you have any suggestions from what I told you?

hmm. how about.... you hurt someone i love and she/he/it mentions it then i mention it and it happens again... i'll hurt ya :)

most likely i'd get someone else to do it, me being in the chair.

thing is.... as mentioned before, the revenge made you feel better... how did it help her?

violence should only (imo) be used to put an end to such behavoire.

On the one hand, there is a very specific situation introduced and described by the thread starter. On the other hand are the general discussions of revenge. Because the situation at hand is so unusual in its scope, scale, and dimension, it's very easy to veer all over the place between the poles of specificity and generality. I don't know what else to say about it at this point.

It's a fascinating discussion.

do you realize you just gave a semi definition to what 'art' is?:D

cracked me up some reason
-shrug-

Revenge may not be right, and I don't know how religious you are, but you are suppost to leave revenge up to God. However, I once fell very short of this. Back in the day, like 9th grade, I had an ex-friend who reminds me a lot like Farva from Super Troopers and Craig from Malcolm in the Middle. And well he pissed me off for the last time. So I TPED his house, yes it was childish I know. But it felt so good and so right. Long story short my parents found out and we did over 100 bucks worth of damage. I got grounded for a month and never regretted one moment of it, because he made my life a living hell. I was brought up on the basis of treat people how you wanted to be treated. It may have been childish, but I'd do it again in heartbeat. You ended up regretting what happend and the only way you can feel better about yourself as a person is to confront him face to face and apoligize. Sadly in this society you could be sued if you confronted him. If it were myself I'd cower, because if I went to that extreme, they must have done something really bad. I'm really out of words so I will wish you Good Luck!

revenge is odd. sometimes it's good to pay back.... i am, however, positive than to live a remotely decent life you have to learn to forgive. i've rarely done the Eye For An Eye bit, but i have definatly gotten revenge..

as for protecting someone or putting someone in their place? it isn't revenge; it's a way to show that you will not tolerate abuse. that sounds odd, beating the beater, but we aren't searching for logic. sometimes you have to show them what can happen.

it could be argued that there are truly low and scummy people out there who will only change when made to suffer- and suffering that they do not know the source of is often quite effective in causing a bit of introspection which MIGHT (or not) cause them to change- from a personal standpoint, I live life with the belief that a person wronging you in a serious way merits punishment, likewise, them wronging someone you care about should also bring punishment- you must look at it from a detached viewpoint, and if a person is truly a threat, that threat must be eliminated, using no more force than is nescessary to prevent them from being a threat any longer- use the law if you can, if not then DIY- It should be noted that I also feel that right and wrong are sometimes subjective, with a lot of gray areas, and that sometimes to produce a good outcome requires an evil act.