Why? - A Discussion - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dragon2fire · 11-04-2003, 12:18 AM

now wait a minite who says people dont follow the rules

i got to disagree with that premise altogether

the vast majoraity of people do follow the rules

at least the people i deal with do

Cynthetiq · 11-04-2003, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaos
If I had to post a fucking sign for every little thing that should be pretty obvious to most people, the entire place would be decorated in signs.

that's what they do here in NYC... they place is covered in them.

dy156 · 11-04-2003, 09:11 AM

When I was in school, I was a menace to the teachers and administrators. I hated rules, and would flout them whenever possible, and then fight or attempt to fight any consequences. I felt they were needlessly restrictive and often pointless. I likely would have been a thorn in Ms. JadziaDax's side, had I been her pupil. I loved to question and correct teachers.

Why are kids supposed to be quiet in the cafeteria? Why say "you can't chew gum", when it should be, "don't spit out your gum or place it anywhere but the trash."? Far more gum was stuck to the bottoms of the desk because of students hoping not to get caught due to the no gum chewing rule, which, ironically was put in place to prevent that very thing, than would have been stuck to the desk bottoms had students been free to spit their gum out in the trash without fear of reprimand.

My behavior changed, as schooling progressed and things started to matter - college recommendations, college GPA's, actually needing to know the stuff that was being taught, etc.. and it did not behoove me to pick fights with teachers. However, my attitude toward pointless regulations did not. It was just in my best interest to play the game and be nice.

Now, I do not break rules or try to get away with bending rules or even do things that are within the rules but just cheap, dirty or chickenshit that would hurt someone. (Though you can be aggressive, especially if you're not dealing with a "little guy") I guess I follow my own morals, in that respect. I won't try to take something that I feel like I didn't earn.

Traffic tickets, etc.. I'll continue to push the envelope, gleefully not coming to a complete stop when there is no one around and driving too fast on the highway. That doesn't hurt anyone. Am I willing to pay the consequences? Only if I get caught and then can't fight my way out of it.

Does this dichotomy make sense? Yes. It goes along with my political philosophy. I'm selfish, just like I expect everyone else to be. I don't want the government, or teachers, or anyone else telling me what to do or not do. Until I start infringing on the rights of others, I ought to be able to do whatever I want, and I'm willing to allow others to do whatever they want, until they start infringing on my rights. Arbitrary rules infringe on my rights.

On the other hand, TFP rules, however arbitrary (and I'm not saying they are - there have actually been pretty decent explanations given) do not infringe on anyone's rights, but rather their wants.

Alright, I'm done, but if JadziaDax wants to keep me after class to "teach me a lesson" I probably wouldn't mind all that much!

Holo · 11-04-2003, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hawkeye
(not trying to pick on anyone) "I refuse to follow any rule that I don't understand."
That is BULLSHIT.
you have a six year old kid. you explain to them that they shouldn't let anyone 'touch them there' but you don't explain why. A six year old, not only has no need to know why they shouldn't let that happen, but would have no comprehension even if you tried to explain.

No. I explained to my kid at the age of 4 why her genitals aren't to be touched by anyone other than her Dr., Her mother or her Grandma. I told her it was considered a private place for every person and should be touched by no one except for those 3 ppl, and then only because it hurt (she got a lot of yeast infections back then). I had her repeat the reasons I gave her and was satisfied she understood it was a private area. Kids can understand plenty if you bring it to their level and repeat it a few times.

yes, when you get older you're more able to understand and reason, but you don't always need to be spoon fed all the answers. Most of the time rules are there because they are things that have been shown to have a net positive effect. We should be able to follow simple rules without explaination.

Oh we can....but why is it such an imposition to ask why the rule is in place? Obvious shit like murder, etc is one thing. But everyone is different and has different perceptions of things and no matter how actually intellingent you are you may not understand something that others do automatically. My country was founded on rebellion...if we are to keep our freedom we should always question the laws that bind us. If no explanation can be given the rule is obviously unecessary. If no explanation will be given then the system cannot claim to champion freedom. Much easier to follow a rule you understand than one you don't.

addressing a different point, I personally think that any cashier in a express lane should be authorized to refuse service to someone over the limit, and explain to them that the store makes enough money that they really don't give a shit about one offended asshole.

I agree to a point. I think if it's 2 or 3 over the limit and the non-express lines are backed up they should be allowed, but not someone with like 20 items, etc. Also I'm not sure you know but the express lane is the handicapped lane in many stores as it's the only one a wheelchair can go thru. So if you see a handicapper there with a cart of shit that's why.

11-04-2003, 12:18 AM	#41 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	now wait a minite who says people dont follow the rules i got to disagree with that premise altogether the vast majoraity of people do follow the rules at least the people i deal with do

11-04-2003, 09:11 AM	#43 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	When I was in school, I was a menace to the teachers and administrators. I hated rules, and would flout them whenever possible, and then fight or attempt to fight any consequences. I felt they were needlessly restrictive and often pointless. I likely would have been a thorn in Ms. JadziaDax's side, had I been her pupil. I loved to question and correct teachers. Why are kids supposed to be quiet in the cafeteria? Why say "you can't chew gum", when it should be, "don't spit out your gum or place it anywhere but the trash."? Far more gum was stuck to the bottoms of the desk because of students hoping not to get caught due to the no gum chewing rule, which, ironically was put in place to prevent that very thing, than would have been stuck to the desk bottoms had students been free to spit their gum out in the trash without fear of reprimand. My behavior changed, as schooling progressed and things started to matter - college recommendations, college GPA's, actually needing to know the stuff that was being taught, etc.. and it did not behoove me to pick fights with teachers. However, my attitude toward pointless regulations did not. It was just in my best interest to play the game and be nice. Now, I do not break rules or try to get away with bending rules or even do things that are within the rules but just cheap, dirty or chickenshit that would hurt someone. (Though you can be aggressive, especially if you're not dealing with a "little guy") I guess I follow my own morals, in that respect. I won't try to take something that I feel like I didn't earn. Traffic tickets, etc.. I'll continue to push the envelope, gleefully not coming to a complete stop when there is no one around and driving too fast on the highway. That doesn't hurt anyone. Am I willing to pay the consequences? Only if I get caught and then can't fight my way out of it. Does this dichotomy make sense? Yes. It goes along with my political philosophy. I'm selfish, just like I expect everyone else to be. I don't want the government, or teachers, or anyone else telling me what to do or not do. Until I start infringing on the rights of others, I ought to be able to do whatever I want, and I'm willing to allow others to do whatever they want, until they start infringing on my rights. Arbitrary rules infringe on my rights. On the other hand, TFP rules, however arbitrary (and I'm not saying they are - there have actually been pretty decent explanations given) do not infringe on anyone's rights, but rather their wants. Alright, I'm done, but if JadziaDax wants to keep me after class to "teach me a lesson" I probably wouldn't mind all that much!