New research - Heartbreak pain is real - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

skippy · 10-11-2003, 03:29 AM

Heartbreaks hurt just like any other pain

Last Updated Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:22
WASHINGTON - U.S. scientists have determined that the human brain reacts to a broken heart as it does to a broken leg. Using brain imaging, they found that the brain's pain response centre perceives both hurts as painful.

Being picked last for the team hurts

Researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles watched blood flow to the brain as people participated in a game.
The volunteers didn't know the purpose of the experiment. Participants thought they were vying against two other people, but in fact they were playing a computer program.

The program treated the 13 subjects as outcasts by intentionally excluding them from the game. It was an adult version of being the "loser" who is picked last to play ball.

Social psychology graduate student Naomi Eisenberger of UCLA and her colleagues worked on the study, which appears in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

They found the volunteers' brains "lit up" when they were rejected, just as our brains do when we experience physical pain.

Specifically, neural activity was heightened in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) – the part of the brain which responds to a punch or poke in the eye.

The researchers say the findings suggest any type of social exclusion, from a divorce to not being invited to a party to being turned down for a date, could cause distress to the ACC.

Eisenberger said we may have evolved the tendency to feel rejection as pain as a defensive mechanism since infants need to stay close socially to survive.

If separation hurts, then children would learn not to stray too far from their social group, she said.

Humans also need a defense mechanism to prevent us from becoming overwhelmed by rejection, the researchers say.
Written by CBC News Online staff
****************************************************
OK here is the question. Have you been hurt by someone you love?

My wife had an affair once, it lasted for months. He was a lot younger than me, she was only looking for 'excitement'. I can't begin to explain how much this hurt.

I found out about it when a freind told me about it. I was thankful that I new about it, and was able to improve my marriage because of it. We have now been married for 20 years.

GakFace · 10-11-2003, 03:44 AM

Wow, thats quite amazing stuff you have there. I never woulda figured your brain would perceive it the same as a physical 'burn.' That puts a lot of insight into things, and more questions into why.

Have I been hurt? Yeah.. definately. Never been married so I don't know that one, but I had a period in my life where my sister and I acted as if we didn't exist... that was pure hell for me. As for you, how did you marriage work though such a thing? Its great to know things worked out in the end tho. All I have to say it.. WTG for 20 years!!

ARTelevision · 10-11-2003, 04:58 AM

yes, the mind is a part of the body.

GakFace · 10-11-2003, 05:05 AM

yeah, its just not the actual brain.. so to speak, so I kinda figured it would be SLIGHTLY different, not exactly the same.

raeanna74 · 10-11-2003, 05:12 AM

The brain is an amazing organ. We are only beginning to tap it's potential. We can "think" ourselves sick or well to some extent. Just to imagine what we could POTENTIALLY do is out of this world.

little limey · 10-11-2003, 06:05 AM

When I don't get picked for a team or something humbling like that happens to me, the feeling I get has a bit of adrenaline in it I think. I feel like I get butterflies in my stomach and I get light headed for a second. That's the same way I feel when I skin my knee or bruise my elbow.

Gortexfogg · 10-11-2003, 06:43 AM

That was an interesting read. The brain never ceases to amaze me. Though, they forgot to mention the sensation of all your blood heading to your heart and staying there that follows rejection...

sexymama · 10-11-2003, 07:22 AM

Very intersting! I think we've all been hurt at one time or another. I wonder how the "outcast of the world" deal with the continual pain -- ouch!

As for me -- I was always chosen last for sports teams as a kid. To this day I don't have my students pick teams. And, although I'm in good physical shape, I am not confident of my athlectic abilities and avoid team sports.

Esoteric · 10-11-2003, 11:09 AM

Very interesting, I didn't know that. You learn something new everyday.

SecretMethod70 · 10-11-2003, 11:48 AM

That is quite interesting. At least now there's an explanation for that "heart sinking to your stomach" feeling. Definitely have had that before

Sad_Machine · 10-11-2003, 12:28 PM

This is really very interesting. To think of all the things are brains can do is simply amazing. Just think of everything we could do, If we better understood are brains.

Jasmar · 10-11-2003, 12:43 PM

I wonder how long it'll be before someone sues their ex for dumping them

Jonsgirl · 10-11-2003, 02:56 PM

That's really something to think about. I always wondered if I was it just my imagination when my heart 'hurt'.
It makes alot of sense; it's all connected. I wonder why no one ever thought to test this before?

Harshaw · 10-11-2003, 10:25 PM

This is one of the most interesting things I have heard in a long time. Its one of the "hits you where you live" sort of studies.

taog · 10-12-2003, 12:16 AM

ok.. study me then

i am a hardcore skateboarder. and i have been for a long time. I have had many injuries, thankfully no broken bones, but i did tear a ligament once, which hurts a fuck of a lot more than a broken bone, from what i understand.

in other words, i know physical pain, since i deal with it daily.

Another side of my life

One of my ex's cheated on me with my 'best friend'. That hurt me a fuck of a lot. I thought i was totally in love with this girl, and she did something like that to me. Then my friend, whom i was friends with for 10 years also did that shit. That was a much different pain than being physically hurt.

My recent ex also broke up with me, recently, and i was insanely in love with her. It was all my fault, because i was still hurt by my previous relationship, so that made me feel bad also, because i wasn't myself, which in turn fucked things up. It hurt a lot, because i fucked up, and i lost the best thing that ever happened to me, and probably the best thing that will ever happen to me. I can't even stress how much that hurts, and still hurts.

Those pains are so much different though. The pain of being hurt by falling on my skateboard and the pain of being hurt in relation to someone you love, whether it be neglect, or by knowing that your own stupid actions caused things to fuck up, it's still way different. The pain of losing someone like that is more on the inside, whereas falling and fucking up your body is more direct at the source.

From someone who experineced both pains, one on a daily basis, i can see how the same part of the brain could tell you that either is happening, but they are much different feelings. One is physical and the other isn't.

This whole thing could explain why hard asses who like to fight don't have a problem with going up to girls and getting rejected though.

anti fishstick · 10-12-2003, 01:38 AM

yeah i think the point of the article isn't necessarily that it FEELS the same, but that it stimulates the same part of the brain. which makes emotional "heartaches" a valid real hurt. as if they weren't already :P

skippy · 10-13-2003, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anti fishstick
yeah i think the point of the article isn't necessarily that it FEELS the same, but that it stimulates the same part of the brain. which makes emotional "heartaches" a valid real hurt. as if they weren't already :P

Yeah I agree... it isn't like I feel cut when my wife cheats ... it just hurts....

it all registers in the pain center of my old bean...

rogue49 · 10-13-2003, 05:43 AM

The pain of the heart overwhelms the senses of the mind.

It is an intense, blinding, stomach-turning pain.
And I'm sorry...that's a legit feeling.

I'd almost prefer the physical injury.

People make the mistake of say well I can't see it, so it must not exist.
This is FAR from the truth, and shows the ignorance of what we know so far.

I know the pain of heartbreak, and I remember the physical pain it causes me.
It is not something to take lightly.

Minx · 10-13-2003, 07:06 AM

The mind is such a powerful tool yet we only use such a small percentage of it. Just think of what we would be able to accomplish if we were able to utilize it to it's full potential.
I have no doubt at all that the pain felt from heartbreak it just as intense and real as physical pain.
Thanks for the article btw, a very interesting read!

Harshaw · 10-13-2003, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49

I'd almost prefer the physical injury.

I know I would. Sometimes something so emotionally bad will happen I will hit a wall just so I can concentrate on the pain in my hand.

eple · 10-13-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minx
The mind is such a powerful tool yet we only use such a small percentage of it. Just think of what we would be able to accomplish if we were able to utilize it to it's full potential.
I have no doubt at all that the pain felt from heartbreak it just as intense and real as physical pain.
Thanks for the article btw, a very interesting read!

Sorry, but this is an urban legend. It was initiated by Einstein, who at some point bursted out that some guy he debated with could only be using 10% of the brain. Some journalist picked it up, and misqouted him quite brutally.

Think about it....If there were such vast amount of unused brain, how could evoltion maintain it? It's not like we have a tail anymore. If there is body parts we don't need, it will gradually disappear. Read this in a big collection of popular urban myths (Marie Antoninette never said "let them eat cake" folks), have noe link to show, but it is quite obvious.

anti fishstick · 10-13-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49

I'd almost prefer the physical injury.

Quote:

Originally posted by Harshaw
I know I would. Sometimes something so emotionally bad will happen I will hit a wall just so I can concentrate on the pain in my hand.

which is exactly why some people self-mutilate

Soggybagel · 10-13-2003, 09:18 PM

I'd just have to agree with the idea that emotional pain can hurt just as much. I know that when you're emotionally at a weak point you are literally aching to do something and thats when people act dumb.

Semi-Normal · 10-14-2003, 12:37 AM

I'd take physical pain over emotional pain any day of the week. It goes away faster if nothing else.

And yes, that thing about only using 10% of our brains is an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

nash · 10-14-2003, 07:55 PM

I know this isn't the same thing, but I hate it when researchers spend money to confirm the obvious. Sorry about the tangent.

Anyways, I always thought it was obvious (the first word that came to mind was "nobrainer" but I didn't want to seem like I was trying to pun) that "heartbreak" and other related emotions/feelings caused real physical pain. That sick punched-in-the-gut feeling is for real. I agree with those who said that they would rather have pain caused by physical stimuli, since I have also found it to be a good distraction from my thoughts. I have scabs from my knuckles right now from scraping them against a brick wall a few days ago when I was trying to get my mind off something. =(

skippy · 11-02-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nash
I know this isn't the same thing, but I hate it when researchers spend money to confirm the obvious. Sorry about the tangent.

Anyways, I always thought it was obvious (the first word that came to mind was "nobrainer" but I didn't want to seem like I was trying to pun) that "heartbreak" and other related emotions/feelings caused real physical pain. That sick punched-in-the-gut feeling is for real. I agree with those who said that they would rather have pain caused by physical stimuli, since I have also found it to be a good distraction from my thoughts. I have scabs from my knuckles right now from scraping them against a brick wall a few days ago when I was trying to get my mind off something. =(

I sort of agree with you but would like to point out one thing. The reason why it's important to researchers that the pain centre is activated when a person feels emotional pain has a lot to do with understanding the whole human brain, as opposed to understanding only psychology. (however both sciences are affected by these findings) Slowly, bit by bit scientists are building a map of the human brain and tracing the function of the brain back to the map. In order to understand brain disorders and general brain health they need to understand how it works. This little finding is only one small piece of the puzzle.

You can interpolate further conclusions from the findings as a result. Things like how emotional abuse can cause people to willingly suffer large amounts of physical discomfort or pain. (to aviod further abuse), or how people with a tumour can see smell and taste things that don't exist.

In short and sweet terms ... if psychology didn't end up feeling like common sense it wouldn't be psychology would it? after all its the science of how we think, feel, and behave.

Skippy

1337haxor · 11-02-2003, 07:35 PM

explains a lot

31Friction · 11-02-2003, 07:47 PM

definately interesting. :-\

Eldaire · 11-03-2003, 12:21 AM

Separation doesn't hurt me... oh well. I always suspected I might not be human y'know. SWEET! Undeniable proof that I am an interdimensional being with superhuman powers!

10-11-2003, 03:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
skippy Banned	New research - Heartbreak pain is real Heartbreaks hurt just like any other pain Last Updated Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:22 WASHINGTON - U.S. scientists have determined that the human brain reacts to a broken heart as it does to a broken leg. Using brain imaging, they found that the brain's pain response centre perceives both hurts as painful. Being picked last for the team hurts Researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles watched blood flow to the brain as people participated in a game. The volunteers didn't know the purpose of the experiment. Participants thought they were vying against two other people, but in fact they were playing a computer program. The program treated the 13 subjects as outcasts by intentionally excluding them from the game. It was an adult version of being the "loser" who is picked last to play ball. Social psychology graduate student Naomi Eisenberger of UCLA and her colleagues worked on the study, which appears in Friday's issue of the journal Science. They found the volunteers' brains "lit up" when they were rejected, just as our brains do when we experience physical pain. Specifically, neural activity was heightened in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) – the part of the brain which responds to a punch or poke in the eye. The researchers say the findings suggest any type of social exclusion, from a divorce to not being invited to a party to being turned down for a date, could cause distress to the ACC. Eisenberger said we may have evolved the tendency to feel rejection as pain as a defensive mechanism since infants need to stay close socially to survive. If separation hurts, then children would learn not to stray too far from their social group, she said. Humans also need a defense mechanism to prevent us from becoming overwhelmed by rejection, the researchers say. Written by CBC News Online staff **************************************************** OK here is the question. Have you been hurt by someone you love? My wife had an affair once, it lasted for months. He was a lot younger than me, she was only looking for 'excitement'. I can't begin to explain how much this hurt. I found out about it when a freind told me about it. I was thankful that I new about it, and was able to improve my marriage because of it. We have now been married for 20 years.

10-11-2003, 03:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	Wow, thats quite amazing stuff you have there. I never woulda figured your brain would perceive it the same as a physical 'burn.' That puts a lot of insight into things, and more questions into why. Have I been hurt? Yeah.. definately. Never been married so I don't know that one, but I had a period in my life where my sister and I acted as if we didn't exist... that was pure hell for me. As for you, how did you marriage work though such a thing? Its great to know things worked out in the end tho. All I have to say it.. WTG for 20 years!! __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

10-11-2003, 04:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	yes, the mind is a part of the body. __________________ create evolution

10-11-2003, 05:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	yeah, its just not the actual brain.. so to speak, so I kinda figured it would be SLIGHTLY different, not exactly the same. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

10-11-2003, 05:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	The brain is an amazing organ. We are only beginning to tap it's potential. We can "think" ourselves sick or well to some extent. Just to imagine what we could POTENTIALLY do is out of this world. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

10-11-2003, 06:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
little limey Psycho Location: Room Nineteen	When I don't get picked for a team or something humbling like that happens to me, the feeling I get has a bit of adrenaline in it I think. I feel like I get butterflies in my stomach and I get light headed for a second. That's the same way I feel when I skin my knee or bruise my elbow.

10-11-2003, 06:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	That was an interesting read. The brain never ceases to amaze me. Though, they forgot to mention the sensation of all your blood heading to your heart and staying there that follows rejection...

10-11-2003, 07:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	Very intersting! I think we've all been hurt at one time or another. I wonder how the "outcast of the world" deal with the continual pain -- ouch! As for me -- I was always chosen last for sports teams as a kid. To this day I don't have my students pick teams. And, although I'm in good physical shape, I am not confident of my athlectic abilities and avoid team sports. __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

10-11-2003, 11:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Very interesting, I didn't know that. You learn something new everyday. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

10-11-2003, 11:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	That is quite interesting. At least now there's an explanation for that "heart sinking to your stomach" feeling. Definitely have had that before __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

10-11-2003, 12:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sad_Machine Upright Location: Chicago	This is really very interesting. To think of all the things are brains can do is simply amazing. Just think of everything we could do, If we better understood are brains.

10-11-2003, 12:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	I wonder how long it'll be before someone sues their ex for dumping them

10-11-2003, 02:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jonsgirl Semi-Atomic Location: Home.	That's really something to think about. I always wondered if I was it just my imagination when my heart 'hurt'. It makes alot of sense; it's all connected. I wonder why no one ever thought to test this before? __________________ Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you.

10-11-2003, 10:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
Harshaw Is mad at you. Location: Bored in Sacramento	This is one of the most interesting things I have heard in a long time. Its one of the "hits you where you live" sort of studies. __________________ This too shall pass.

10-12-2003, 12:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
taog Crazy Location: London, Ontario, Canada	ok.. study me then i am a hardcore skateboarder. and i have been for a long time. I have had many injuries, thankfully no broken bones, but i did tear a ligament once, which hurts a fuck of a lot more than a broken bone, from what i understand. in other words, i know physical pain, since i deal with it daily. Another side of my life One of my ex's cheated on me with my 'best friend'. That hurt me a fuck of a lot. I thought i was totally in love with this girl, and she did something like that to me. Then my friend, whom i was friends with for 10 years also did that shit. That was a much different pain than being physically hurt. My recent ex also broke up with me, recently, and i was insanely in love with her. It was all my fault, because i was still hurt by my previous relationship, so that made me feel bad also, because i wasn't myself, which in turn fucked things up. It hurt a lot, because i fucked up, and i lost the best thing that ever happened to me, and probably the best thing that will ever happen to me. I can't even stress how much that hurts, and still hurts. Those pains are so much different though. The pain of being hurt by falling on my skateboard and the pain of being hurt in relation to someone you love, whether it be neglect, or by knowing that your own stupid actions caused things to fuck up, it's still way different. The pain of losing someone like that is more on the inside, whereas falling and fucking up your body is more direct at the source. From someone who experineced both pains, one on a daily basis, i can see how the same part of the brain could tell you that either is happening, but they are much different feelings. One is physical and the other isn't. This whole thing could explain why hard asses who like to fight don't have a problem with going up to girls and getting rejected though.

10-12-2003, 01:38 AM	#16 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	yeah i think the point of the article isn't necessarily that it FEELS the same, but that it stimulates the same part of the brain. which makes emotional "heartaches" a valid real hurt. as if they weren't already :P __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

10-13-2003, 05:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	The pain of the heart overwhelms the senses of the mind. It is an intense, blinding, stomach-turning pain. And I'm sorry...that's a legit feeling. I'd almost prefer the physical injury. People make the mistake of say well I can't see it, so it must not exist. This is FAR from the truth, and shows the ignorance of what we know so far. I know the pain of heartbreak, and I remember the physical pain it causes me. It is not something to take lightly.

10-13-2003, 07:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Minx Junkie Location: Up yonder	The mind is such a powerful tool yet we only use such a small percentage of it. Just think of what we would be able to accomplish if we were able to utilize it to it's full potential. I have no doubt at all that the pain felt from heartbreak it just as intense and real as physical pain. Thanks for the article btw, a very interesting read! __________________ You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

10-13-2003, 09:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
Soggybagel Psycho Location: Lovely City #1	I'd just have to agree with the idea that emotional pain can hurt just as much. I know that when you're emotionally at a weak point you are literally aching to do something and thats when people act dumb.

10-14-2003, 12:37 AM	#24 (permalink)
Semi-Normal Insane Location: Christchurch, New Zealand	I'd take physical pain over emotional pain any day of the week. It goes away faster if nothing else. And yes, that thing about only using 10% of our brains is an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm __________________ I'm not lazy, I'm "motivationally challenged."

10-14-2003, 07:55 PM	#25 (permalink)
nash Psycho	I know this isn't the same thing, but I hate it when researchers spend money to confirm the obvious. Sorry about the tangent. Anyways, I always thought it was obvious (the first word that came to mind was "nobrainer" but I didn't want to seem like I was trying to pun) that "heartbreak" and other related emotions/feelings caused real physical pain. That sick punched-in-the-gut feeling is for real. I agree with those who said that they would rather have pain caused by physical stimuli, since I have also found it to be a good distraction from my thoughts. I have scabs from my knuckles right now from scraping them against a brick wall a few days ago when I was trying to get my mind off something. =(

11-02-2003, 07:35 PM	#27 (permalink)
1337haxor Insane Location: PA	explains a lot

11-02-2003, 07:47 PM	#28 (permalink)
31Friction Addict Location: STL, MO	definately interesting. :-\ __________________ "Saints need sinners." Alan Watts

11-03-2003, 12:21 AM	#29 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	Separation doesn't hurt me... oh well. I always suspected I might not be human y'know. SWEET! Undeniable proof that I am an interdimensional being with superhuman powers!