Jozrael

It's a tough question because your solution is inadequate. It does NOT address the father's rights. (It doesn't burden him with financial and emotional weights, rightly so.) There are conflicting rights for the father and mother. Let's say that the man who was raped WANTED the child to live, and the woman wanted to abort it? You're telling me that this man, who didn't even ask for the child but now that it is there is committed to bringing it into the world, will be denied that option because the woman bearing it has the right to both begin and end it without his consent?

I'm not saying I have a better solution. There's too much grey. But I am saying that I don't know of a single solution, including the one you've proposed, that is adequate.

Which is why it is beneficial to discuss it, to see if there ARE better solutions.

Seaver

We force medication and medical treatments on people against their will every day. Child molesters take daily medication, if they stop taking it they go back to prison. Mentally unstable ex-cons are required to take medications otherwise they go back to prison. This is the same thing.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

genuinegirly

Interesting parallel, Seaver.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Jozrael

Just brainstorming here, feel free to shoot it full of holes: what if the woman was given a choice? Basically, do whatever the man says he wants done with the baby. If you choose not to, go to jail/pay him massive settlement/etc. This way her rights aren't really impinged upon, but he's at least compensated for his loss/victimization.

Zeraph

Genes belong to the human race and should have little to do with anything. In the unlikely situation that a woman raped me to get pregnant I'd go to jail before I paid child support. The child would have nothing to do with me. I also think this should apply to pretty much all other cases as well. Besides cases where the father still wants to retain custody child support is wrong. It is essentially forcing the father to take care of his ex and a stranger. Almost as wrong as forcing an abortion. Of course this doesn't mean I don't think they'd be a douche for abandoning their child, but it's not the law's concern.

Jozrael

I can't even begin to comprehend what I'd do in this situation. I guess it's pretty much what a woman would have to go through if she was raped and chose to keep the child merely because she couldn't bring herself to abort it, not because she wanted it. What a terrible place to be.

Hyacinthe

*****

This is why men do not report rape and domestic violence even when it does happen. Reponses like this make it seem as though because you are a VICTIM you are less of a man.

Do I think he should have the right to force the woman into an abortion, no, I don't think that she should be allowed to raise the child either though. If he wants to keep the child he should be allowed as a single father and I believe receive FULL child support payments from the mother when / if she is released, I believe women who are victims of rape should be given the same option if they decide to keep the child. Much as I hate to put an infant that young into the government social systems I believe in a case like this the child would be better with a family who loves them then with the mother, rapists should not be allowed to raise children, they have given up that right with the nature of the act they have committed.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

Strange Famous

This is pretty outlandish in my opinion. I can make two statements of my own view

1- It is impossible for a man to be raped by a woman in this way.
2- A man should and does not ever have the right to force a woman to have an abortion. If the state was to attempt to enforce such a criminal action I am not exagerating to say that this would be an act of war against the people and that ANY actions allowable in war would be permissable against agents of the state attempting to commit such a crime against humanity.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

It's rare, but it's not impossible.

Three women abduct, rape man in Karachi - Pakistan - World - The Times of India

I feel the same way about the death penalty. I don't think forcing an abortion in this kind of situation is as bad as the death penalty (except the act of war bit...I don't see the logic behind that), but I am against that course of action regardless.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

I disagree. It is pyschologically and biologically possible for a woman to rape a man in my opinion. Sexual assault (with a foriegn object) is possible, but extraordinarily unlikely in reality, but a rape that results in pregnancy just couldnt happen.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

It's this kind of thinking that makes it difficult for men to deal with their assault, and especially to report it.

As many as 14% (but perhaps as little as 1 or 2%) of perpetrators of sexual abuse of males are female. While this figure includes the abuse of children, females do sexually assault adult men, as they, too, can be violent, manipulative, and otherwise abusive.

And remember, sexual assault does not require battery or the use weapons.

Men and Sexual Trauma - (National Center for PTSD)
Male Sexual Abuse Victims of Female Perpetrators: Society's Betrayal of Boys

This are some enlightening reads that will help explain why it is difficult for some to believe that men can be abused by women:
Domestic Violence Against Men
Male Victims - Campus Violence Prevention Project - University of Wisconsin

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Yes, and I said that sexual assault by a woman to a man is possible - simply not rape.

I believe that there is indeed a very worrying amount of unreported male victims of rape. But in these cases the perpetrator will also be male.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Glory's Sun

I think it's a bit foolish to say that something "isn't possible"

Baraka_Guru

But it is physiologically possible and probably does happen. Just as women are reported to have orgasms during a rape. The sexual response is hardwired and can easily happen against one's will and even in times of stress. Stress can often trigger it.

And I sincerely doubt all unreported male victims of rape had male perpetrators. There are those that are on record that would suggest this. It sounds like you didn't read any of the links in my last post. I highly recommend it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

I am not denying that there can be some cases of physical assault by women on men... we tend to think of gender as absolute... but there are some people who are biolgically female by pyschologically male who may commit violent assault against other women and even men.

I am only talking about actual physical rape. I am not denying males can be the victims of domestic violence in some cases.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

I would think physical rape is possible, even if you don't.

But what do you think of emotional blackmail?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

I think it is not the same thing as rape

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Anormalguy

Yes, under the circumstances of forced sex the man should should have the right to have the pregnancy aborted.

__________________
In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow

Baraka_Guru

There are many who think that, but this is changing. "Rape" is a limited term when it comes to sexual assault; it normally applies the violent act of forced sex, but there is more going on when it comes to sex against one's will. There seems to be movement toward addressing the various concerns surrounding what they call "sexual coercion."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

pig

Is this back to the notion that only men are morally corrupt inside, and therefore only men can commit such heinous and violent crimes?

In theory, I can understand allowing a male rape victim to make this choice. It would extremely difficult to know that you had a kid out there, even being raised by a foster family, that would constantly remind you of the rape. You don't want to think about it, but from time to time you'd wonder what they were doing...and back comes the assault. The problem is, of course, men using such a law to force abortions from women who tell them they want to keep the child when the man doesn't. I think you'd be proper screwed when it came to enforcement. Logistical nightmare.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style