Astrocloud

Here's the deal:

The police have pulled you over for something: a broken tail-light, speeding, or an expired tag. The officer starts talking to you and asks if he can search your car.

If you have nothing to hide then why not consent to a search? They may let you off of the original ticket.

On the other hand, they have no probable cause. Perhaps they'll make a mess of your car or detain you for an unreasonable time.

Different (albeit free) legal sources say different things.

One says never consent to a search

http://www.uojustice.org/knowyourrights.html

The other says go ahead and consent

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/a...nt_officer.htm


What would you do in this situation?

YourNeverThere

If I have nothing to hide then bloody hell no I'm not letting him even look in the glove department. When I have nothing to hide all I have is a point to prove, they pull me over, in my realitivly small town, they pull me over becuase of looks, I have no problem with that, it's my body and I'll face any concequence's that there may be. Anyway, regardless, if I have nothing, then no, you can't search me officer. If he deciedes that that is probable cause, which makes the whole rule useless, but it does happen, and searches with "probable cause" and finds nothing, then he has to explain to me why, excatly, he thought that I had anything.

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Phaenx

Don't they end up just making you wait longer while they get permission if you don't?

I'd consent, I have a sure fire way of staying out of trouble: Don't break the law.

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The_Dude

I would probably have nothing to hide and will readily consent.

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cj2112

I don't use dope, I don't carry guns illegally in my vehicle, I don't keep open containers in my vehicle. I have nothing to hide, however I would NEVER consent to a search. That's within my rights, and I choose to exercise them before they atrophy.

Halx

here here cj2112 said it right for me. If I say go ahead, they could damage my car, which I love. I have nothing to hide, but I have something to protect.

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rogue49

Let's put this way...I'm not going to put myself in the position
while they figure out a way to force a search of my car.

I've had cops be assholes for no reason before,
why give them reason to be even more so?

I've got nothing to hide, let them waste their time.
Otherwise, they might decide to play...I don't want to play with cops.
They don't play well with others,
and they have the benefit of the doubt (this is reality, at least in Traffic Court)

Lebell

No.

As has been said, there's a principle involved. They have no reason to suspect me and don't need to be sticking their noses in where they're not welcome.

Just FYI, chances are that the cops will then say that they are calling a drug sniffing dog unit to come check for probable cause (they are within their rights) but if you tell them, fine, they will probably let you go (since they really don't want to wait, they just want you to give in.) (I think most draw the line at a 1/2 wait)

BUT, if the dog does get there, insist that the dog's officer NOT touch your car during the sniff around! (Since they routinely handle a test sample of drugs for the dog, they can easily transfer the scent from your hand to a bumper, thus giving a false positive and 'probable' cause. And YES, they KNOW THIS VERY WELL...)

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bundy

exactly.
if they really think that its worth searching, they´ll have to arrest me.
i´m completely against their invasion into my property.
in the same vein, i´m against security guards searching in your bag when you leave a shop.

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irseg

Although I have nothing to hide, I would not consent to a search. My car is MY property. I wouldn't let any random person search my car; I don't see why a cop should be treated any differently. And if they claim probable cause or get a warrant, they'll have to justify the search when they inevitably find nothing.

World's King

I'll never let the cops search my car.

They'd find all my drugs that way.

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Nisses

That's all you need on your stressful day, a civilian giving you attitude and making your day just that little more interesting by giving you lip.

Why is it so hard to just cooperate with them and politely ask them not to leave a mess when they're done? I've had them ask me twice and I just agreed, and asked not to mess it up if possible. They just looked inside, under the seats, behind, in the glove compartment and were out of the car in 2 maybe 3 minutes. And they did put all the papers back. The second time I guess he "forgot" to search the car, since he went on with a few questions and didn't even go in there.

Same with a shop. You *know* that bag is not gonna help you while in the store, it won't give you advice or carry anything for you. It's just gonna sit there and draw attention from the guards. Leave it in the frickin' car. If it's your cellphone you want to take with you, just take it out and put it in your pocket.

I guess I'm not as anti-police as most since I know several people on the force and I hear them telling me those kind of stories with uncooperative people on a regular basis. It's no more fun for them than for you. Don't make it worse.

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Loki

this might sound really stupid, but thats not really a sure-fire way to stay out of trouble. If the police really really wanted you, for whatever reason, in America theres this nice little crime called "Conspiracy to ..." with which one can be detained for little to no reason. (Also, although i think this is MUCH less likely in real life than in the movies, it is possible for the authorities to frame you too, but i dont think thats likely at all, just saying that there is a slight probability)...

If a police asks me to if he could search my car, i would point blank ask him why. Whether or not i let him search my car depends on what he says. ( Although it would more likely be a "yes" than a no"... I respect the police force, and what they do).

Bill O'Rights

I couldn't have said it better if I'd written it myself. I love that last line, and the truth of it smacks like a cast iron skillet to the back of the head.

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onetime2

Depends on the cop's attitude and whether I have anything to hide. In most cases I get along with cops. One time (on the night of my graduation from high school) we were headed to a party (it was literally minutes after leaving the graduation ceremony. A group of us (4 cars) were waiting for another friend who knew how to get to the party. We were parked alongside a road with a very wide shoulder (rural road right across the street from another friend's house), when a cop pulled up. He claimed that someone from the retirement home across the street called him (which was BS because we had been there for less than 5 minutes and no way in hell is there that kind of response time). We were completely respectful to him and he was a prick.

None of us had been drinking yet and I knew there was nothing in my car. He was taking his time going around every car and writing tickets for everything he found. One for a busted license plate light, one for obscured view (my best friend's mom had gone into his truck during the graduation ceremony and hung a Ziggy doll with the graduation year on it from his mirror), and the other car got a ticket for a bald front tire. While he was doing all this I decided to lay out on my car hood and crank the radio a bit.

Of course he didn't like this, ran over, got in my face, and asked what my problem was. I asked what his was and why he felt the need to harass a bunch of kids who had just come from their graduation ceremony. He made me assume the position (hands on hood, etc) and frisked me. He then gave me a lecture about respecting the police and crap. I gave him some more lip and he asked if I wanted him to find something on my car too. I told him to have at it. He spent a good half hour going through it and he was getting more and more pissed. There wasn't a single thing wrong and now a crowd was forming outside the retirement home since he had his lights on the whole time. He then said I could go but I better not come through his town anymore. Of course he neglected to give me back my license, registration, and insurance card. I pointed this out to him and said, "Now sir, I wouldn't want to be driving without documents in your town would I?"

I could see the anger in his eyes and I loved it. He was such a prick and there wasn't a damn thing he could do about me.

That was fun but it still pisses me off that he gave my friends those tickets on a night that was supposed to be one of the best in their lives. I hope I get a chance to see that cop again in the future just to point out what a dick he is. Sharkey, that's his name and I will always remember it.

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absorbentishe

As a reasononable person, I say no. I've got nothing to hide, but the point is, unless he smells pot or alcohol, there shouldn't be a reason to search. The police did this to my friend, they pulled him over for something ridiculous that wasn't even an offense, seached his car are ripped it apart. Their explanation was stupid as well. If this happens, just ask what their probable cause is, and then ask to have your lawyer present.

Cynthetiq

No.

The correct verbiage to use is,"Officer I respectfully decline your request to search my vehicle." to continue further... "If you would like to search my vehicle, please note that you are doing so under my protests."

If for whatever reason they seem to find ANYTHING even that old beer that rolled under the seat 4 years ago from that beach party... it will be tougher for them to prove that their search was reasonable and within consent.

Same thing goes with them wanting to come inside my house. I have nothing to hide, but I do have a protected right of unreasonable search and siezure.

Now... if I'm crossing an international border or immigration checkpoint... all bets are off.

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Psivage

Not anymore, I do believe , the Patroit Act, gives the authority to do almost anything and get away with it.

iamjero

Thank you! That is exactly what Im talking about.

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Mango

@@!

Derwood

saying no to a request to search your vehicle gives the probable cause, which means they get a warrant. lovely, eh?

I have nothing to hide. as long as they don't fuck up my car, i don't care

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erion

Absolutely not.

I have never done drugs, rarely drink alchohol (and have never driven under its influence). I don't own a gun, nor do I ever carry any of my collection of knives or swords. The closest thing they're likely to find in my car to an illegal substance is a can or two of spray primer and/or sealer for my wargaming miniatures. A punk kid is NOT going to pay $9 a can for grafitti paint. I'm sure the foam padded pistol cases I use to move all those miniatures around will cause some concern (especially since there may be as many as 5 in my trunk at any given time), but all they contain is well-painted bits of plastic and metal. I have no criminal record, and have not had a moving violation since the year I received my drivers license (13 years ago). Their reasonable suspicion is nonexistant, and I am well within my rights to refuse an unreasonable search at a routine traffic stop.

In 1998 the US Supreme court ruled in Knowles v. Iowa that roadside searches for the sake of searching are prohibited under the 4th Amendment. They cited plenty of other instances where a search is justified, but that if the purpose of the traffic stop was to issue a specific citation (say for speeding or faulty equipment) then the crime at hand is the only one for which evidence may reasonably be gathered. They pretty much said that for a traffic violation, license, registration, and proof of insurance are pretty much all that can be required. They may arrest you if they are not satisfied with the documents provided, but that may only be done in pursuit of the violation at hand (i.e. the reason you were stopped in the first place.

They do have the right to ask you to step out of your car and pat you down for a weapons search but only with a reasonable suspicion that you may be armed and dangerous, and may also do a quick patdown of your vehicle to find a weapon if they have reasonable suspicion that one is readily available.

The court ruled that there is only a remote chance that a detailed further search of a vehicle is likely to turn up evidence related to the violation at hand, and as such the searches are not reasonable. In certain states, even evidence found with your consent may not be admissible against you if there was no reason for the officer to search your vehicle related to the initial reason you were stopped. Once they've got the information they need to issue the ticket, that's where their legal right to investigate your vehicle ends.

Lack of consent to a search is not probable cause to search your vehicle. There has to be a reasonable suspicion of a serious crime beyond the scope of the traffic stop. You do not have to consent to a search and once the officer requires you to stay longer for the search he has detained you and makes the search without a warrant subject to 4th amendment statutes. It's therefore illegal.

Know your rights, people. They are the only thing keeping us a free country.

cdwonderful

you dont resist, but you never consent.
Crimes are judged in court, not by the side of the road.
There is still a thing called resonable cause.

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erion

Saying "no" to a request to search your vehicle is NOT reasonable cause for further detention.

The fact that you insist upon a search warrant does not mean you have something to hide. Rather, it is a confirmation of the constitutional concept that police do not have the right to arbitrarily conduct searches of your property.

A police officer has no right to detain you unless there exists reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime or traffic violation. However, a police officer is always allowed to initiate a voluntary conversation with you. Sometimes it is unclear whether or not a person is detained. If you are in doubt, you should ask the police officer if you are in fact free to leave.

If you're not free to leave, then anything that happens must occur under constitutional scrutiny.

raeanna74

This happened to hubby and myself.

The situation:
We were attending a religious college and had driven an hour away for the day (saturday) to spend it hanging out with our friends and shopping. There were 5 of us college kids in the car. We drove through a little town known in the area for having cops who would stop you for anything and everything. The town was also known for having one of the best donut bakeries around. We were running late getting back to school and were going to be getting in after curfew. Major demerits for that one - it was a strict school.

They stopped hubby saying that he moved into the new lane as it was created too quickly and crossed the white line. No big deal but they were checking for drinking I guess. Then they asked for all our lisences. Asked us to get out. Then asked to search the car. Just a small pocket knife in the glovebox and hubby told them about that. Nothing else even close to incriminating. They even asked us to clean out our pockets. We got a few laughs. One of the girls had tampons in her pockets and the cop who was taking care of her (there were two of them) had his hands out and she just plunked them in his hands. He was a young cop and looked thoroughly uncomfortable. We laughed outloud at that and he laughed with us. Later before they let us go one of the girls asked the cop (who was a little portly actually) "Where could we get some good donuts at this time of night." He laughed and pointed us toward a gas station nearby. They joked around with us and we had fun with it. They were just plain bored stiff in this tiny town.

When we left we called the school and told them we'd been held up. That meant they gave us a break on being late and no one got demerits. Turned out great for us and is a fun story to tell.

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hawkeye

perfect.
I will add that I have had enough harassment by cops, that I don't really feel all like doing them a favor.

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punx1325

I would never consent to a search unless they have a reason. But there is nothing I would do that is illegal for them to search the car. Just know if the cop is looking for something like weed and finds alcohol and you are under 21. The judge must throw the case out. This happend to my roommate a few weeks ago. Basically know your rights, that is the only way you can win against cops.

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bender

Go ahead and search away, I really don't care.
My truck is a mess and who knows they might clean it up a little.

pocon1

One book I read even recommended locking the car behind you if the officer says to step out of the vehicle. That way his partner cannot look through your car while your back is turned.
In Maryland last year, the police had been investigating a known drug dealer for a while and decided to make a move on him. They pulled him over, wrote him a ticket for an expired tag or something like that, and then waited twenty minutes for a drug dog to arrive. The drug dog sniffed out a large amount of cocaine, a kilo or something. The court threw out the case, because the officers did not demonstrate probable cause for bringing the drug dog and making him wait. They detained him illegally because they had no reasonable reason to hold him. Even though everyone knew he was a dealer. So no, the officer cannot Hold you. Now, will I argue at night with a cop? No, I will tell him no and then if he forces the issue I ask him to call for a superior and request his badge number, and then file a complaint and consider legal action. But I will not make great efforts to resist him because it is hard to argue to courts that you are right after a bad officer has assaulted you. This is by no means an indictment of law officers in general, but a recognition that they carry a lot of power and the people have protection from intrusive and illegal actions by the police.

Anexkahn

Even though the constitution grants protection from un-reasonable search and seizure federally, the interpretation of case law and application to consent searches varies greatly between states. That said, what goes in one state, doesn't in another.

As far as consenting to a search personally, i think it would have a lot to do with the attitude of police in the area. I actually work as a cop on the west coast, and went to visit a friend who is also a cop in Texas, and i was amazed at the way he did shit. A lot of the things he did wouldn't fly where i am from. So i’d say it has a lot to do with the demeanor and professionalism of the cops in the locality whether i’d give consent to search.

I generally have a good reason to ask for a consent search when i do, and if people ask i'll be more than happy to tell them why i asked to search and what I’m looking for. I find a lot more people will readily consent if i approach them right. I really don't mind if people decline, i could care less. its within their rights, and i respect that, and im sure if they're involved in illegal activity, i'll catch them another way later.

One thing to consider, i ask for consent to search just as much to rule out criminal activity as i am looking for criminal activity. For example, if i receive information that a person is routinely transporting dope in his vehicle, and i stop it, don't find any probable cause to develop an investigation, ask for a consent search, get told to fuck off, the next time i see that vehicle, and i can find a lawful reason to stop it, i can gaurendamntee i'll stop it, just for another opportunity to check for illegal activity. Conversely, if they consent to search, i check the vehicle, don’t find anything to support the dope trafficking information i received, and I’ll probably not contact the driver again on the minor traffic violation I saw.

I've heard some crazy ass stories about how cops ripped the shit out of vehicles on consent searches, and I’m sure it happens once in awhile, making cops everywhere look bad, but most are just doing their job and will treat you with just as much respect as you give them.

bparker805

Good luck telling them no... A friend and i were pulled over ( he was the driver) for no reason. Cops wanted to search the car and my buddy said "no". They come back and tell me that i am on probation and that they have the right to search the vehicle I am travelling in. I have no problem with the reasoning, but I WASN'T ON PROBATION!!! They trumped up the story and what do I do? Cause a scene so they have a reason to rodney king me down? I used my head grabbed a cell phone called someone at home and asked them to grab a pencil and paper... I then proceeded to convey the cruiser number, their names and badge numbers. It was kinda funny how after i said their names that they were gone in all of about a minute. But the moral of the story is, if they want to search it, they will.

Force 10

Never

Sad_Machine

I'm with cj2112 and Halx--"I have nothing to hide, but I have something to protect."

sixate

I honestly don't know what I'd do. If I was speeding like an asshole and a cop wanted to search my car I might let him so that when he found nothing he might just let me go without a ticket.

If I was pulled over for something dumb and there was no chance of me getting a ticket I'd tell the cop fuck no!

Fearless_Hyena

Absolutely. But with that in mind, I would still never consent, even though I would probably have nothing to hide.

This is because there's always the chance that they find something you didn't know about that's against some law, but more so on the basic principle of it all.

If they really want to search it, they will probably end up doing it anyway. If they wanna knock you for something, and it could be *anything* really, they're going to do it anyway. Cops can make up just about anything they want to nail you for, or at least give you a really hard time -- so with that in mind it's you're duty to call tme on that, and not let them get away with whatever they wish.

Your best bet is to not piss them off and find a way to make them want to move along. bparker805 was thinking on his feet -- calling someone on your cell and/or recording info is a great idea, and you don't even have to be a dick about it -- I mean, I enjoy pissing off cops, but it's not a good idea when you're being put on the spot!!! Try to be friendly and civil but stand your ground.

If they ask why don't you consent, even if you don't have anything to hide, tell them straight up that you know it's within your rights and that you have no reason to want to consent! It's worked for me before, and it sure did take a lot of self-control for me in order to be civil, but remember who's in power here. Remember that they can and will basically do anything they want unless you're able to give them a good enough reason not to.

IC3

If he/she stops me to give me a ticket..Then write me the ticket and leave me alone.

I wouldn't let them search my car because..

A) If they have no reason too then they can go and....You know.

B) They would most likely find a small amout of weed. I usually have a couple spliffs in the ashtray.

I would only get a ticket for having a couple spliffs anyways.

If my car was clean I would still refuse, And if they wanted to be assholes and hold me till they got a warrant to search my car...Fine. But I would be the one with the last laugh when they come up with nothing....Suckers.

raeanna74

Anexkahn I agree it does have a lot to do with what the cops are like in a certain area.

We knew of the cops in this area and have dealt with them in the extended area. I our part of the country we have a lot of woods, small towns, and fairly bored cops. (They're bored enough to hand out a warning speeding ticket to my brother who was on roller blades. lol) They're not rough and most are just looking for something to do. We kinda chatted a bit and had a good time joking around with the ones who stopped us. If you know the cops aren't the type in that area to rip stuff up and you have the time to spare. I'd say go ahead and let them search. It'll give you a chance to talk to them and for them to get to know you. Next time you need something or something happens to go wrong that cop that you got to know a little may be more help to you. In my town there are about 25 cops on the force. I've had opportunity to meet and deal with a number of them and have seen the around town. There have been times when something was going wrong and we've helped each other out. One time a neighbor of mine had left her kids alone and they turned to me for help to watch the kids while they went to look for her.

Hubby has had a couple bad experiences with cops who seemed to not be willing to give him a break on tickets but for the most part we've seen that if we respect them and are willing to cooperate as much as we can then they will give us a break a little bit.

It's give and take.

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Astrocloud

Interesting responses thusfar. I was pulled over and searched a couple of times.

The first time the cops told me (in not so many words) that if I didn't consent to a search that they would arrest me and search me anyway. These were Phoenix cops. They wasted my time and found nothing

The second time I was searched -I was travelling across the country in a moving van. I was stopped outside Oklahoma city and they asked to search me. The cop looked in 7/10's of my boxes... just lifting up corners and peaking in. There was nothing there. Oh yeah... he kept asking me what was in each box. I think he quit because people kept driving by and screaming out their windows.


I don't think I would consent to a search again. The first time, In phoenix -the cops were just harassing me. They made a mess out of my paperwork in the glove compartment and wasted my time being assholes.

The second time was alright but only because I was on a cross country trip and kinda lonely.

m5man

My brother-in-law is a superior court judge and says NEVER let the police search without a warrant. The cop may be curious and want to look around, but he knows he can't.

guthmund

The first time a cop asked me if he could look around, I told him okay. I had nothing in the car and was on the way to the laundromat at 2:00 in the morning. I guess he got a little suspicious.

He didn't find anything in my dirty underwear, although he was trying real hard. His dick head partner eventually wrote me a ticket for not having my driver's license. (It was in a pair of dirty jeans in the hamper that I wasn't allowed to go near.)

I fought the ticket, told the judge my story, and after he asked the officer if it was true gave a nice long lecture on wasting the courts time with trivalities.

Since then, I don't let them search anything... no way, no how; I make sure the car is locked if they ask me to get out and I don't volunteer any information that isn't pertinent

Being a Sneetch with a star isn't carte blance to be an asshole

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