First the Maytag Repair Man, now their jobs are gone too - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dano069 · 09-25-2003, 06:08 AM

Quote:

You will no doubt be getting one of the last ones made in the USA, so you will get a good quality product. Maytag is moving their manufacturing to Mexico, so who knows what the quality will be when workers are paid 58 cents an hour, and live and work in awful conditions.

350 jobs head south next week, one of them belonged to my husband

My wife pulled this off of a sweepstaking message board. And the jobs continue to disappear.

kurty[B] · 09-25-2003, 07:00 AM

There's globalization for ya. As for the quality of product, I won't say until I start hearing that the Maytag man all of a sudden has work to do. As for the loss of jobs to american employees, yeah that sucks, but obviously some greedy old person wanted to get a bit wealthier.

Sapper · 09-25-2003, 07:23 AM

Yikes - appliances will be built to the same standard as cars? 5 year life cycle? OUCH !

Rodney · 09-25-2003, 08:04 PM

Truly sorry to hear it. Of course Maytag management thinks they'll punch up profits on the machines they sell. But since so many other manufacturers are also moving jobs overseas... in the end, people may not be able to buy new washing machines nearly as often as they used to. So what happens to those new profits?

Honestly, I don't think any particular job is sacred; but why not at least automate them out of existence and keep the factories in the U.S? And get the gov't to sponsor retraining. That's how you really grow an economy. But individual businesses just care about their balance sheets, go for the cheapest near-term costs and fight tax increases like wild boars.

tj2001cobra · 09-25-2003, 09:01 PM

This sucks. I just read an article about how Mexico is trying to make it illegal for the US to bottle tequila. They are trying to quit shipping it to us so they can bottle it on their own down in Mexico. If this happens, more jobs will be lost. NAFTA sucks. Take it from someone who has to drive around with elevnty billion 18 wheelers a day on IH-35 coming out of Mexico and going there.

Steph · 09-25-2003, 10:06 PM

Free trade sucks for Canada, too. What's supposed to be good about NAFTA? Could someone remind me?

splck · 09-27-2003, 06:42 AM

Too bad about the lost jobs and all.
Why would quality be worse if manufactured in Mexico?
Free trade can be scary, but protectionism is worse IMO.

rodgerd · 09-27-2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steph
Free trade sucks for Canada, too. What's supposed to be good about NAFTA? Could someone remind me?

Well, the positive spin would be that:
[list=1][*]You avoid paying a fortune in higher prices and taxes for levies and subsidies.[*]Things get made by the people who can do it best.[*]It spreads the wealth around. The poor get richer by doing the jobs the rich are too inefficient to do.[/list=1]

Problem is it never works out this way. After all, sneakers are all made in the same handful of factories, and cost perhaps 5% of their purchase price to manufacture. Yet the cost of Nike shoes hasn't gone down one red cent. The rest goes into the pockets of a handlful of people. So you don't see the benefit.

Powerful lobbyists keep trade barriers in place in many areas (eg agriculture) so while your high-paying IT job goes to India, your McJob is taxed to pay subsidies to rich landowners who then use tarrif and non-tarrif barriers to jack up the cost of the food you eat.

Taxes often end up staying where they are, spent on something else (eg invading other countries) or cuts don't actually apply evenly - and if they are targetted, they aren't targetted at the people affected by globalisation.

A constant refrain is to retrain, but most people and entities pushing globalisation stridently oppose government intervention (except in their favour), so taking the money of a billionaire who shipped your job to Mexico so you can go back to school and learn a new trade is labelled "theft", "class warfare", etc.

Finally, people in the countries where the job goes often have no say on things like pay rates. Unionisation is illegal, there are often facist governments (Burma, China, etc) who will have you taken out and shot, quite literally, for agitating for better terms and conditions. So there's actually a beggar thy neighbour effect - instead of the theoretical outcome where we all (India, China, etc) get to be rich, we all get to be poor.

Esoteric · 09-27-2003, 03:23 PM

Damn, that sucks. Sorry to hear it.

etla · 10-04-2003, 04:41 PM

Levi's is going offshore too. The last US plants are closing before christmas and the Canadian plants some time in 2004

rodgerd · 10-05-2003, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by etla
Levi's is going offshore too. The last US plants are closing before christmas and the Canadian plants some time in 2004

That's a real shame. I like being able to buy clothes and the like made by people under decent conditions; sucks if they're going to just go into sweatshop manufacturing.

skippy · 10-05-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kurty[B]
There's globalization for ya. As for the quality of product, I won't say until I start hearing that the Maytag man all of a sudden has work to do. As for the loss of jobs to american employees, yeah that sucks, but obviously some greedy old person wanted to get a bit wealthier.

Yeah well maybe the Mexicans are harder working, and produce better quality products for less.....?

Arrogance, Arrogance Arrogance.

it never fails to surprise me how arrogant certain cultures can be.

10-05-2003, 04:01 AM

The joys of imperialism at work!

skippy · 10-05-2003, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rodgerd
Well, the positive spin would be that:
[list=1][*]You avoid paying a fortune in higher prices and taxes for levies and subsidies.[*]Things get made by the people who can do it best.[*]It spreads the wealth around. The poor get richer by doing the jobs the rich are too inefficient to do.[/list=1]

Problem is it never works out this way. After all, sneakers are all made in the same handful of factories, and cost perhaps 5% of their purchase price to manufacture. Yet the cost of Nike shoes hasn't gone down one red cent. The rest goes into the pockets of a handlful of people. So you don't see the benefit.

Powerful lobbyists keep trade barriers in place in many areas (eg agriculture) so while your high-paying IT job goes to India, your McJob is taxed to pay subsidies to rich landowners who then use tarrif and non-tarrif barriers to jack up the cost of the food you eat.

Taxes often end up staying where they are, spent on something else (eg invading other countries) or cuts don't actually apply evenly - and if they are targetted, they aren't targetted at the people affected by globalisation.

A constant refrain is to retrain, but most people and entities pushing globalisation stridently oppose government intervention (except in their favour), so taking the money of a billionaire who shipped your job to Mexico so you can go back to school and learn a new trade is labelled "theft", "class warfare", etc.

Finally, people in the countries where the job goes often have no say on things like pay rates. Unionisation is illegal, there are often facist governments (Burma, China, etc) who will have you taken out and shot, quite literally, for agitating for better terms and conditions. So there's actually a beggar thy neighbour effect - instead of the theoretical outcome where we all (India, China, etc) get to be rich, we all get to be poor.

The REAL truth is that for every Product that has it's production line moved off or North American Soil another, more innovative product get made right here at home. There is no shortage of jobs in CANADA or the US. We currently have very low Unemployment Rates...

Get back to school... don;t settle for assembling widgets the rest of your life. It's our educational systems and processes that will drive our economy well into the next century.

james t kirk · 10-06-2003, 08:43 AM

Well, there is ACTUALLY something you can do.

If we all banded together and when we bought durable goods (so called) buy them not only based on quality, but where the product was manufactured.

If you are planning to purchase a washing machine and the Maytag is made in Mexico, and the Whatever is made in Ohio, then buy the whatever irregardless of price. (Odds are it won't be that much more expensive anyway.)

You have to support your local economy.

Myself, when i am buying clothes, etc, I DO look to see where the thing was made and will pick Canada first, followed by the USA / Britain. From there i try to figure out if the country needs a break, like India, or Pakistan.

I generally try to avoid Korea and China for the shear junk syndrome.

There are also companies trying to make a better product in NORTH AMERICA and paying a decent wage, for example X Sweats by Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's fame.

Some things such as cars are so international now, that i don't think it matters. Plus GM builds complete crap now, so you would have to be on glue to buy a GM anyway.

Dano069 · 10-06-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

[i]
Get back to school... don;t settle for assembling widgets the rest of your life. It's our educational systems and processes that will drive our economy well into the next century. [/B]

Hmm, what shall I become? Oh, I know, a computer programmer. No, wait, those jobs are going to India. How about an engineer (mechanical or structural). Crap, again, the jobs are going to India. Oh, I know, a call center rep for HP or Dell. Double crap, those jobs are going overseas too. Okay, then, how about a financial forecaster? Oh fudge, those jobs are going to India too. Hmm. What's left? Oh, I know, WalMart, or McDonalds. Yes, service jobs, that's it. Poverty level.

It's not about quality or racism, or education. It's about money. When corporations can pay an individual up to half of what they pay Americans, say bye-bye to the jobs. All sectors are currently suffering. The regular joe worker, whether he's blue collar or white collar is being farmed out. Who's gonna buy all those products when people don't have jobs. It's true unemployment is not rising, but, it's also true that NEW jobs are NOT being created. It still winds up being a net loss. Oh, and BTW, when things are made cheaper, does the price really go down? Hell no, that would cut into profits.

Cynthetiq · 10-06-2003, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dano069
Hmm, what shall I become? Oh, I know, a computer programmer. No, wait, those jobs are going to India. How about an engineer (mechanical or structural). Crap, again, the jobs are going to India. Hmm. What's left?

It's not about quality or racism, or education. It's about money. When corporations can pay an individual up to half of what they pay Americans, say bye-bye to the jobs. All sectors are currently suffering. The regular joe worker, whether he's blue collar or white collar is being farmed out. Who's gonna buy all those products when people don't have jobs. It's true unemployment is not rising, but, it's also true that NEW jobs are NOT being created. It still winds up being a net loss. Oh, and BTW, when things are made cheaper, does the price really go down? Hell no, that would cut into profits.

it's the investors that want the quick $$$... they are the ones to blame... do you put your money into 3% slow growth or 10% quick growth?

the paradigm of business has changed, and the workers around the world are suffering.

bussman · 10-06-2003, 01:55 PM

These things have really been scaring me lately, I'll be graduating from college with a CS degree in about a year, and my greatest fear is not finding a job.

absorbentishe · 10-06-2003, 02:01 PM

I work at a small <1000 employee company, and our DP (Data Processing) department found out that they want to outsource stuff to India, granted it's only a 10 people that it effects, but then, what's next?????

rodgerd · 10-06-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dano069
Hmm, what shall I become? Oh, I know, a computer programmer. No, wait, those jobs are going to India. How about an engineer (mechanical or structural). Crap, again, the jobs are going to India. Oh, I know, a call center rep for HP or Dell. Double crap, those jobs are going overseas too. Okay, then, how about a financial forecaster? Oh fudge, those jobs are going to India too. Hmm. What's left? Oh, I know, WalMart, or McDonalds. Yes, service jobs, that's it. Poverty level.

Or CEO. Then you can loot the shareholders and get away scott free!

09-25-2003, 07:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sapper Insane Location: The Internet	Yikes - appliances will be built to the same standard as cars? 5 year life cycle? OUCH ! __________________ rm -f /bin/laden

09-27-2003, 06:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	Too bad about the lost jobs and all. Why would quality be worse if manufactured in Mexico? Free trade can be scary, but protectionism is worse IMO. __________________ nice line eh?

09-27-2003, 03:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Damn, that sucks. Sorry to hear it. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

10-04-2003, 04:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
etla Junkie Location: Canada eh?	Levi's is going offshore too. The last US plants are closing before christmas and the Canadian plants some time in 2004 __________________ Subvert the Dominant Paradigm

09-25-2003, 07:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
kurty[B] Sauce Puppet	There's globalization for ya. As for the quality of product, I won't say until I start hearing that the Maytag man all of a sudden has work to do. As for the loss of jobs to american employees, yeah that sucks, but obviously some greedy old person wanted to get a bit wealthier.

09-25-2003, 08:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Truly sorry to hear it. Of course Maytag management thinks they'll punch up profits on the machines they sell. But since so many other manufacturers are also moving jobs overseas... in the end, people may not be able to buy new washing machines nearly as often as they used to. So what happens to those new profits? Honestly, I don't think any particular job is sacred; but why not at least automate them out of existence and keep the factories in the U.S? And get the gov't to sponsor retraining. That's how you really grow an economy. But individual businesses just care about their balance sheets, go for the cheapest near-term costs and fight tax increases like wild boars.

09-25-2003, 09:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
tj2001cobra Insane Location: Austin, Texas .. Y'all	This sucks. I just read an article about how Mexico is trying to make it illegal for the US to bottle tequila. They are trying to quit shipping it to us so they can bottle it on their own down in Mexico. If this happens, more jobs will be lost. NAFTA sucks. Take it from someone who has to drive around with elevnty billion 18 wheelers a day on IH-35 coming out of Mexico and going there.

09-25-2003, 10:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Steph Upright Location: Toronto	Free trade sucks for Canada, too. What's supposed to be good about NAFTA? Could someone remind me?

10-05-2003, 04:01 AM	#13 (permalink)
2thumbsup Guest	The joys of imperialism at work!

10-06-2003, 08:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Well, there is ACTUALLY something you can do. If we all banded together and when we bought durable goods (so called) buy them not only based on quality, but where the product was manufactured. If you are planning to purchase a washing machine and the Maytag is made in Mexico, and the Whatever is made in Ohio, then buy the whatever irregardless of price. (Odds are it won't be that much more expensive anyway.) You have to support your local economy. Myself, when i am buying clothes, etc, I DO look to see where the thing was made and will pick Canada first, followed by the USA / Britain. From there i try to figure out if the country needs a break, like India, or Pakistan. I generally try to avoid Korea and China for the shear junk syndrome. There are also companies trying to make a better product in NORTH AMERICA and paying a decent wage, for example X Sweats by Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's fame. Some things such as cars are so international now, that i don't think it matters. Plus GM builds complete crap now, so you would have to be on glue to buy a GM anyway.

10-06-2003, 01:55 PM	#18 (permalink)
bussman Tilted Location: Mass	These things have really been scaring me lately, I'll be graduating from college with a CS degree in about a year, and my greatest fear is not finding a job.

10-06-2003, 02:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	I work at a small <1000 employee company, and our DP (Data Processing) department found out that they want to outsource stuff to India, granted it's only a 10 people that it effects, but then, what's next?????