MSD

I was just reading a thread, and I came across what may be my biggest pet peeve not related to Politics. Why do people feel the need to use "gay" and "fag" as insults? I think this behavior shows extreme ignorance and is little better than using racial slurs as insults. Something needs to be done about this, as it's not an uncomon occurance. Kids need to be taught that using language like "fag" is not acceptable, and that "gay" refers to homosexuality, and should not be used as an insult. i'm hoping that this kind of thing will fade out with time, but it doesn't seem to be changing. Am I just a ranting, PC loser? Or does this bother anyone else?

Lebell

No, it bothers me too.

I know too many homosexuals to see it as anything but a slam.

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Johnny Rotten

What's more subtle and harder to defeat is when kids use the term "gay" as a qualitative assessment, as in, "That band last night was so gay. This show is so gay. I don't want to go to the mall, the mall is gay." It's just innocuous enough to last for a long time.

But I doubt you'll be able to do much about "gay" and "faggot" as insults. Those are unfortunately quite ingrained in certain segments of the youth population, especially in the more conservative regions. It's also the first retort of the stupid, and unfortunately, stupidity runs quite rampant as a rule.

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rock_bottom

I don't know, my friends and I say "gay" and "fag" as insults - we make fun of each other for everything. But we have gay friends, many of us have been involved in gay rights stuff, heck, I even told one of my best friends he should go out with a particular guy - since he was clearly into it, just afraid of the stigma.
I realize you can be tolerant of homosexuality on one level but still be bashing it, but I still don't think saying "gay" is bashing homosexuals. It's like, if you say something is "lame" you aren't making fun of mutilated or handicapped people, even though that's what the word literally means, you're just using it as a figure of speech.
At least that's how I look at it. I am careful though, I have plenty of friends who will take offense at that kind of language so I don't use it around them. I don't want to piss any one off.

inf7

I have a friend whos brother came out and he told all of us that it really bothered him when we said things like "that is gay" or "stfu fag" So I tried to make an effort to stop it and man it is hard to stop using words like that... sometimes it just slips out

I guess I don't really think of it as bashing persons who chose that lifestyle. I agree on what rock_bottom said, Alot of it is figure of speech and not ment in a bad way.

Golux

I think rock_bottom has a point. The way the words are developing are rapidly getting away from their origional meaning. I mean, look at most of the slang that has ever been used and how far it has been removed from its original meaning. Gay didn't always mean homosexual either, it just came to that, and if it now evolves into a negative slang word, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will retain any of its meaning toward homosexuals. Even though it is developing from the meaning of homosexual, I think it's starting to lose that refrence and have a new meaning in context.

BBtB

Saying gay to mean stupid is a slur but thats how it happens. As Golux pointed out our language being a living language is constantly evolving. Gay used to mean happy. Then it ment homosexual. Maybe in 20 years the actull meaning of gay will be stupid. Now since it originaly WAS referring to homosexuals it might be bad that thats how it works but thats how it works. I am allready at the point myself that I personally make a distiction between saying something is gay meaning stupid or gay meaning homo. I think anyone who would take offense to my using the word gay to mean stupid is over sensetive and needs to get over themselves. But thats just my thoughts ( And before anyone asks I am not currently friends with anyone gay men but my last girlfriend was bisexual and I have several bi and lesbian female friends...)

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Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ...

"I would like about three fiddy"

butthead

The real problem is not the idea behinds the words, but the intolerance behind the idea.

World's King

I'm gay... I'm a fag...


Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

JadziaDax

So, as I see it, the first 3 definitions have nothing to do with homosexuality... therefore if you call me gay, you think I'm a generally happy person

A word is only an insult if you allow it to be one. It doesn't matter if the word is gay, fag, bitch, slut, jackass, etc.

Golux

If you just talk to someone about why they would choose that word over any other to mean stupid, then you would probably find that they only chose the word because that's what is in common usage, not that they have any direct stance against homosexuals. It is after all just a word and as long as they aren't actually equating gay as in homosexual to a negative trait, then there shouldn't be anything to get offended at. I've got a lot of gay friends, and I've talked to them about it, and they don't get offended over someone calling something "gay." They just accept it as an alternate meaning to the word and in no way an offront to them.

TrollInvestigtr

uh, the reason they use it is EXACTLY the reason you detest it -- IT BOTHERS YOU.

BoCo

Words don't hurt you when you're emotionally strong enough to take whatever is said to you.

Chill, dudes.

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rogue49

I would prefer people don't use it.

It refers to one part of our society that has some exceptional people in it,
and turns it into a negative remark.

Using it as a synonym for "usual" or "stupid", just feeds into the whole negative image.

And I don't care if gay people even use it in this context,
I don't like black people using the "N" word in regards to themselves either.

Either word used in that context just sends a shiver through my spine,
it brings up the stories of pain and anger I've heard.

apetaster

I ascribe to the sticks and stones theory ala BoCo. Maybe it is easier for me b/c I'm not gay or whatever.

Interesting question above - why is it that the N -word (and perhaps the S-word for hispanics) are so emotive (and something most people would not touch with a 10 foot pole, but mick,fag, polack, etc are more widely accepted/fair game for more people?

Cynthetiq

no... but it's because everyone's a little bit racist...

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billege

I think the power I have over you when I describe something as "gay" within your eashot is cool.

May I control more of your life by using other terms you don't like?

Please give me a list so I may bend your emotions at my whim.

I used to think it was presumptious to think I had so much power over so many people. Who would have thought?

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SecretMethod70

Most times when someone says something they mean it connotatively. So when someone says "that band was gay" they don't mean "That band was uncoll and therefore was homosexual" or "that band was homosexual and therefore uncool" they just mean "that band was uncool." Just like, as was pointed out, calling something lame (or retarded for that matter) is, connotatively, not a bash against handicapped people, it holds a different meaning in that connotation. They haven't changed the name they use for cigarettes in England just because "fag" can mean homosexual as well. And the French name for a bassoon (faggot or fagot) is still printed on music and used. The more you treat something differently, the more different it will be. It's the same philosophy I have with equal rights between the sexes and races - so long as there is a distinction (asking race for statistical surveys, applications, etc) it's impossible for a truly equal existence to come about.

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Le temps détruit tout

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phoenix1002

I think the problem is not what the person using the word means, but how it can be interpreted by other people. Saying something is gay might generally mean that it's uncool, but people, usually middle-school age kids, now, still use 'gay' and 'fag' as an insult. They use it interchangeably, which tends to suggest (at least to me) that they still see some connection between the meaning describing one's sexual preference and the uncoolness of something. I'm with rogue on this one... I just don't like hearing people use the term as an insult, or as an adjective.

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WhoaitsZ

in my life, one thing i cannot tolerate as a human being, Christian, and good man is the words of hurt thrown at people.

i'm southern, and i've had to hear more 'nigger' references than any none hater ever should. i also hate the word 'faggot'. i have a _very_ close, very gay friend.

also, i'm in a wheelchair. the word 'cripple' used to hurt me.

but i have a tendencie to say, ,if i look silly, 'does this look gay?'. it's just a silly statement.

faggot is a hateful word... people should loose it. the world would be much better if they'd loose many words.. like:

nigger, wigger, whitey, wetback, honkey, spook, faggot, cripple, and such

unfortunately, we are a rude society.

However, just hearing a word that is not directed at a person is harmless.. maybe think about it in their eyes.

SiN

hm...

what about 'ghey'?

is the only form of such words i use, and only in a written/typed context...

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w3r7y

i always se to say ghey when i played rainbow 6

I think gay is one of those words that can mean two things.

when I hear someone say "dude, thats so gay", I don't think of it as being homosexual, I think of it as being stupid.

They're seperate gay - stupid

I'm accepting of gay people, I mean, whatever floats your boat.

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william

To rock_bottom: it is okay to use gay tems among gays; kind of like when blacks use terms to speak amongst themselves. I'm a white guy who has nothing against blacks or gays, but I can't use the same terms. Why is it okay against your own (?), but not others? Is it that you don't respect each other to speak up? Be honest, please. And I'm not just speaking to gay people - why is it okay for black guys to call other black guys "niggers"? Isn't "nigger" supposed to be a derogatory term? If this is "supposed" to be so bad, why is it okay for one and not the other? Not that I'm looking for an excuse, I'd just as soon we all figure a way to get along. Is that posible?

BBtB

Okay I am not 100% sure what you mean by this but I am going to take it to mean "people say gay meaning stupid just offened others" I think that is shallow and self centered to think that. There are more people in this world then just you. To think that everyone who does something or says something that bothers you just for the fact to bother your is really quite naive.


I guess I am not up on my racial slurs. (which is pretty much right..) What is the S word?



See and that is sort of the point. Gay meaning stupid is not being thrown at anyone (unless you are calling someone stupid.. )
When I call something gay meaning stupid the word means just that. Stupid.


Here is a better question. Can I call something that I find odd queer? Queer is typically (depending on how it is used) considered more offense then gay or faggot or most other words. But it originally just ment something that is odd or just not right. It would probably offended most people more if I called my friends queer as an insult. Even though technically I could say I was just saying they were odd which IS a meaning of queer and its the meaning that hass been around longer.

Afermative action? Thats basically what it all boils down to though. Untill we stop making distincations between people black white/gay straight/man women whatever. Even positive ones. We will never live in peace. Positive ones are just as bad as negative ones. I mean if we teach our kids (through whatever means) that Asians are smarter as a people how do we keep them from thinking Mexicans are lazier as a people?

GuttersnipeXL

I know homosexuals who use the term "gay" in reference to something being uncool or played out...so its hard to say. I guess it comes down to the situation at hand. I can understand why people don't like hearing it though. When people use it in such a manner, it is in reference to something negative, and being a homosexual isn't bad or negative, regardless of what some may say. It's all semantics, how it's interpreted.

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vermin

Spick. Which I always thought was a shortened version of hispanic, and not an insult. Found out that it was the hard way at 14.

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GakFace

Yeah, Gay means stupid now-a-days... I never hear it as homosexual except from people my parents age, who will probably die out with that homosexual meaning, everyone else i hear it from implies Stupid. The only time it means homosexual is if it is a question: Are you Gay? otherwise i see it as STupid. When i hear of gay i think stupid.. then if you ask me to think again.. I think up every possible meaning, and then some according to its contextual use

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RoboBlaster:
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methodtim

Shit, I should know that no one's ever gonna make it this far down the thread and read my post, but I can't resist! I have literally a ton of gay friends and we call each other fags all the time and also use the word gay when something is not quite right. I used to be peeved when people did this; but I've changed my mind on the matter a bit. I think that the context in which the words are used is actually not hateful the majority of the time. NOW there are obvious exceptions to this, but I'll leave the midwest out of it for now. Heh. Really, when something gays you or is gay, that just means it's askance or awry somehow. There's really no threat implied in either direction (i.e. the person gayed doesn't suffer anything calamitious nor is he threatening reprisal by to the gayee ).

What sealed the deal for me is that my gay friends call everything they find a but odd as queer or gay or faggy. I'm a potty mouth as is, so I'm always looking for new ways to insult people. So, ok, I agree with Gak, et al., that the words don't really carry the meaning of something hateful these days (as opposed to nigger, which is all hate).

To follow on another of Gak's points.. when I think gay, I think of men having sex.

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We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind
Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance
Well they're are no friends of mine
I say, we can go where we want to a place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
and we can dance.

Atropos4

I remember being in school and hearing teachers lecturing and giving detentions for using slang such as gay, lame, sucks....

I had one teacher when I was a freshman in HS freak out because I told my best friend she sucked...(we were joking around) anyways he went into a long lecture about how the slang terms of today meant something completely different to him when he was growing up (he's in his 60's I think).
Until that point I had never thought that I could be offending someone with my slang....

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Johnny Rotten

Personally, every time I've heard one of my gay friends use "gay" or "fag" as a pejorative, it was with a heavy layer of irony. A comic effect, in other words.

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TRPF

You mean like this?



Never really have used it as a put down, but it definately is a part of the American lexicon...

BBtB

Okay, forgive me if I am misreading what you said because I might be. I THINK you said basically that if you use slang that offeneds other people even if they are taking it out of the context that you used it in then you should change to be sensetive to them? Is that right? So therefor if someone was offened by my usage of the word "the" basically to the effect that I learned and use to mean "the" and he just happened to grow up where and when "the" means "stupid bitch" I should change my languge to appease him? Even though it is him who is taking it out of context?

cheezhead

Imho, this thread is gay!

KillerYoda

They're just a words. Everyone is way too sensitive about vocabulary. People use "white" to describe stuff that is lame all the time, and it's not like I cry myself to sleep at night worrying about that.

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MSD

um ... Where do you live? Never heard this.

GakFace

We just need a little carlin about the context of words...

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RoboBlaster:
Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

KillerYoda

Texas. I hear it commonly used as a derogatory term for someone not being cool. Like being "too white" to do something.

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"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

Derwood

I think it's ignorant, especially if the person using the term is over the age of 14. I'm also not terribly thrilled when people say "retarded", as my brother-in-law is mentally retarded.

As for the person who said that only people in his parent's age group use the term gay to mean homosexual, I want to know where you live, because then I will know where the most ignorant place on earth is.

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Phaenx

I know another one; Sanchez.

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Ashton