rodgerd

Amen.

I'll make room for the obviously pregnant, the infirm, someone with a kid they're carrying - anyone who actually needs the seat more than me.

rodgerd

Well, if women want to go back to the status they had in society in Scott's time, I'll lay my cloak over puddles, give up seats, and open doors.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me, though.

hundred-peons

I always think this subject is hilarious.

Women that say they hate to have the door opened for them, are the same ones screaming "Women and children first" on a sinking ship.

Women have always wanted equal rights with men, but most still expect for the guy to pay on a date.

Where would you women be, without your jar opening, bug squishing, garbage taking out, oil changing, lawn mowing men?

It is the classic catch-22.

MacGnG

i try to do all the gentlemanly things but sometimes i am not paying attention to what's going on and don't. but i try my best and usually do the gentlemanly thing.

RippedSock1

hahah. Exactly. Except I wouldn't say every woman is like that. I usually picture the feminist butch-women who would do things like that. I don't think that there are many 'true' feminists out there because, IMO, most would be hypocritical and do just that.

sta500

Exactly. If I see a woman in need, I'll help. Once back in my youth when I was 14-15 I was riding my bicycle and I saw some dude probably 17 yelling at his girlfriend and about to hit her. I went over and I was like "Don't hit her! If you hit someone, hit me." He just stormed off, I asked her if she was alright, she was, and I left.

hawkeye

Exactly.

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DownwardSpiral

I'd probably give up my seat for a girl, it's just common courtesy, ya know? A good deed, yes.

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godzilla23

It's 2003, I want a surf and turf dinner at a classy restaurant... she can pay, right?

David2000

See, I think this is the big problem with feminism today--if women really wanted equal rights they'd support the man who didn't get up. If people really want equality, they'd end any mention of "men" or "women" in any of these societal moral or ethical (or for that matter, legal or matricultative) questions. There'd just be people, and you wouldn't have to worry about if it were a man or a woman. It's just like affirmative action--if I were black I would hate affirmative action--it's the biggest load of shit ever! then if I were successful or went to a good college or got a good job, people would just say that I got it because I were black. I would hate that more than not having the job in the first place. Now, being poor is another thing, I think we should have affirmative action for the poor beause they are underprivileged, but things like getting up for women or allowing people to go to a better college because of the color of their skin only serve to make those specially treated groups feel like they're victims. And victimization sucks.

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mingusfingers

If they want the chick, start talking to them. I won't stand up for able-bodied people.

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sailor

Yeah, I definitely always give up the seat for a woman. Its not chivalry, its being polite, a gentleman, if you want to call it that.

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numberfive

Erm, that is chivalry.

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bobw

...this thought repeated by many in the thread...

...my question is, what do men get back from being chivalrous ? Most things in life have a balance.... just trying to figure out what the balancing factor is here.....

Lebell

Personal satisfaction at having done something nice for another human being.

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Macheath

Courtesy is great but being courteous yourself doesn't give you the right to look down on others who aren't standing for an able-bodied woman. You can, however, look down on ANY able bodied person who doesn't stand for the infirm.

And as a fit young man, I'll look down at a fit young woman who doesn't stand for an old man with a cane; and I expect her to understand what she's doing wrong.

Reese

I hold doors for anyone. I hate letting it slam in their face. I stand up for most women, elderly, or someone with alot of baggage. Anyone that looks like an asshole aint getting my seat though. I can tell by just lookin at ya

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ninety09

I'll only let my seat if I know the girl, and if she's cute.

Battlefield

Most women want equality + benefits
As my gf says "Equality? Of course not, Women deserve more rights"
Of course I don't agree with this but it's reality and women are still discriminated against so we might as well give them a few perks

RelaX

I once stood up for an old guy in an extremely crowded train and he looked at me like I was a freak (the good kind), actually he damn near got a tear in his eye.
I guess it's because it's more of a dog-eat-dog kind of world nowadays. That and most of the time you don't think about giving up your chair, not because you don't want to or something, but if just never crosses your worried mind.
I've never stood up for a girl though... even if I DID like her, standing up for her isn't goanna magically win her over for me.
Maybe if I asked if she wants to sit on my lap?

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meepa

I agree with you, but to be honest, I've offered to give up my seat on occassion for a girl. Usually it's when they're small, and I think I feel that they'll have a harder time not flinging around the bus on the freeway than me I've never offered it to a small guy though... probably because society's mores would pwn us both. I'd sound homosexual, and he'd be a pussy for accepting the offer, so it's a lose-lose situation. But don't hate me, I'm just playing by society's rules there

filtherton

I don't think "just playing by society's rules" is generally a valid reason when it comes to pandering to stereotypes. So what if you'd "sound homosexual"? Anyone who would call you a homo for giving up your seat to a guy is an asshole-plain and simple. What, is giving up a seat just a step away from giving someone a BJ?
Think about it from a different perspective. As a guy who thinks of himself as able-bodied, wouldn't you be insulted if someone looked at you and offered you a seat cause they thought you couldn't handle standing? Wouldn't you feel demeaned? Women today are tough, guys. They can generally handle themselves on public transit. Granted, i haven't seen a whole lot of women chiming in on this thread, but i'd be interested a female's perspective on the matter.

As far as "being a gentleman" goes, it is one thing to do something nice for another human being. It is another thing entirely to do something nice in a discriminatory manner. It seems to me a true gentleman wouldn't give a damn about the gender of the person for whom he is doing a favor.

fckm

So, if giving up one's seat is only common "courtesy", does that mean that women are incredibly discourteous? seeing as how women never
1) pull out the seat
2) hold open the door
3) give you their seat
does this mean that women are impolite and socially backward?

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guardog36

I'll also stand up. Being courteous and a gentleman is something I grew up with. Hey I also open doors for women. ha ha.

Cardinal Syn

I will give up my seat to about anyone who looks exhausted.

As for standing up for someone as they walk in. Yes if the lady is looking around to sit. I will ask them if they would like my chair.

Same goes for opening doors. I ALWAYS try to be the first at the door to open it. Its called Respect. And if you give respect you get it in return.

I dont agree with the original poster. Sorry dude. I know its hard to show respect over the interweb. But on that comment i dont think you would be the person i would hang around.

sailor

There you go. I open and hold doors for women, too. Call it old fashioned or chivalrous, but I do it, its nice, its respectful, and you know what? It feels good to be nice like that, and I won't be stopping anytime soon.

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stingc

I won't stand up for a woman just because she's female. I also won't go out of my way to be the first to a door (sure, I'll hold it open if I am first, but that courtesy goes to men and women). My parents "taught" me to be "chivalrous," but that doesn't mean I have to listen.

I think that there are only two possible "meanings" to this kind of treatment. One is that you are saying that women are special, and should be glorified/worshipped on general principles. The other interpretation is that women are weak, and need help to get through their lives. I don't agree with either of these statements, and since I can't help but interpret these kinds of actions in the above way, I wouldn't get any personal satisfaction from doing them.

The_Dude

nicely said.

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sailor

Well then, sign me up for the first one. I don't think that women should be worshipped, but I absolutely do think that they are something special. I suppose it is rather old-fashioned, chivalrous, or even (God forbid) un-PC. But there it is.

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slimshaydee

It's called the double standards of society

filtherton

I'll open door for a women, but she damn sure better have my dinner ready when I get home from work.

WhoaitsZ

this thread made my eyebrows rise..

to me it is this simple.

i will never stand up for you heehee. ok sorry. for real:

i wouldn't expect for most of all people to give up their seat. we are far to self centered and selfish. it is sad.

if she was expecting you to give it up because she's a she, then fuck that. and i don't think it's neccesarily selfish just to keep your seat.

but if a person looks like they just got back from hell or are sick/old/disabled/pregnant then yeah, give it up.

the part of the thread that threw me for a loop is this:

you're annoyed that someone else did it so you are 'obligated' to do it too. the_dude you're a good guy but come on. how deep is the sheep blood in you?

you are an individual and if you are persuaded so easily i feel sympathy for you. geez.

it just bothers me that you're actually pissed because someone else did something that could possibly make you less selfish or giving you more chance to prove you live by your code, not the others..... sad

raeanna74

I get resent those women that complain because a man held a door open for them. I personally don't make a distinction. If I'm to the door handle before someone else I will hold the door for that person. If I'm out on a date and my date opens the door for me I say thank you. It's not a matter of who is inferior or who is better than the other. It's a matter of respect. If I were a man I would give up my seat to a woman simply out of respect for women.

Think of what your mother went through for you. You men cannot imagine the pain, discomfort and all the problems that come with pregnancy let along the pain of labor and childbirth (I did go through labor and had C-section - still painful). You mother did it. Any women who gives birth did it. Doing things that are chivilrous is a matter of respect. If people respected each other like they should there wouldn't be this resentment that many of you express toward the other sex. I would definately give up my seat for anyone who needed a little extra help be it pregnant, elderly, handicapped, or even just looking tired and frazzled. It's a matter of respect and caring for another person.

I appreciate men who are willing to show courtesy and respect. I admire them but I won't EXPECT them to give up their seat.

I run in circles where sometimes the men even expect the woman to stay in her seat in the car until he can come around to open her door. Or even standing when a woman enters the room. I don't expect it (sometimes I still am surprised by it) They seem to view it as being allowed to be leader in that they are taking care of the other person.

As a wife I have found that everyone is happy if I let hubby get the chance to play the boss. I do many things that aren't Traditional Woman's roles but I know it makes hubby happy to let him do certain things. It's the other way around too. When hubby opens doors for me, pulls out he chair for me, etc. it makes me feel appreciated and valued. it's an effort that is made to be kind and caring. If the other person doesn't appreciate it that doesn't mean it lessens the value of what you did.

It won't make you any less of a man to be chivilrous. In fact if you are completely against the idea of expressing respect in this way I would probably NEVER want to date you.

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veruca

::applause:: I feel the same way

I would never EXPECT a man to to hold a door, or pull out my chair..etc. I understand that not all men are raised to treat women as cherished beings. But those same men must understand why I would NEVER date them. It is the small things that matter and make life nice. Any man that goes out of his way to make my journey easier is held in the highest respect. I understand it is usually just a ploy to get in my pants, but, it is enjoyable none-the-less. I will tell you , that I have dated some guys not as good looking as I usually like, because of the way he treated the women around him, most importantly his mother.

johnnymysto

I think The_Dude's attitude will change after the really pretty girl he wants to talk to gives him the cold shoulder after she realizes that he doesn't hold the door for girls or give them his seat. I think it'll change QUICK.

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sixate

I'd like to add that all of my friends would give up a seat for a chic. They all open car doors for them and all of that stupid bullshit. I laugh at what douche-bags they are. The funny part is girls suck that horse-shit up. All of my friends and damn near every dude I've ever known has cheated on their girlfriend or their wife. I may not move my ass for some chic that I don't know, but I do know that I'll always be 100% honest and never cheat. Now, someone tell me what's more important. I think the ultimate respect is knowing that the man you're with won't throw you a line of shit just to get laid. I've never done that. I've had my chances, but I'm not like that.

Every single girl I have ever dated has told me that I'm unlike anyone they've ever met, and all they do is try to change me into every other dork out there. Chics always tell me that I'm a challenge for them. I laugh and tell them the relationship is almost over because I won't be like other dudes. Girls fragile personalities can not handle my honesty. When I find someone who is strong and independent enough for me I'll gladly stay with them, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

ARTelevision

treating others, including, strangers with respect, courtesy, and deference is how I make my days as pleasant as they always are for me and as many of the people I interact with as I am able.

I work to create a world in which we all open doors for each other and offer each other the best seats in the house. I can't see any reason for not being as civilized, polite, deferential, and decorous as possible. the rules of etiquette and manners are what makes life a pleasant experience for the majority of people each day. it has always been so.

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sailor

Im sorry.

I must make one point: correlation <i>does not</i> equal causation. Just because your friends are standing up for women, and also happen to have cheated, does not mean that they are cheating because they get up out of their seats. The two are mutually exclusive.

Besides, if you are so opposed to being unfaithful (and Im glad that you are), why are you hanging around with these people? If you respect girls, and yourself, why would you hang around these people? I know if any of my friends were sleeping around on their SO, they would be getting an earful.

And seriously. Your whole post is about YOUR wants, YOUR needs. Maybe try thinking about someone else for a change? That doesnt mean that you have to act like everyone else, but it seems that your views are a little self centered.

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johnnymysto

Sixate doesn't do that. Didn't you know he's a mean prick?

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stingc

Sailor, I think that sixate meant that acting chivalrous often does NOT indicate respect, and is just a way of getting laid for a lot of guys.

My decision not to treat women preferentially has nothing to do with a lack of respect. I can understand trying to make someone else happy, so I guess I can't fault others for doing this. I just don't like the general idea of helping a specific group of people more than others when they don't need any special help.

Anyways, if a woman wouldn't date me because I don't compulsively act chivalrous (I might do it occasionally), then we wouldn't get along regardless. Everyone's happy