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Old 04-25-2003, 04:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Madonna Slams American Values

This is here rather than in entertainment because we have a situation in which so-called "entertainers" influence our thinking to a phenomenally high degree - pitiful as that is.

In fact, this may as well be a subtopic in this thread.
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LONDON (Reuters) - U.S. pop superstar Madonna, one of music's richest performers, has attacked her fellow Americans for being obsessed with the "wrong values" such as getting rich and looking good.
Madonna told the Radio Times that Americans had opportunities people in other countries did not have but got caught up in superficial dreams.
"We as Americans are completely obsessed and wrapped up in a lot of the wrong values -- looking good, having cash in the bank, being perceived as rich, famous and successful or just being famous," Madonna told the television listings magazine.
"It's the most superficial part of the American dream and who would know better than me? The only thing that's going to bring you happiness is love and how you treat your fellow man and having compassion for one another."
The interview coincided with the release this week of Madonna's latest album "American Life."
The album -- her first in three years -- received poor reviews and left many critics asking if pop's most successful chameleon had lost her touch after 20 years at the top.
"American Life" comes hard on the heels of the biggest flop of her career as a movie actress -- "Swept Away" which was directed by husband Guy Ritchie and widely panned by critics and audiences alike.
But Madonna, who has embraced domestic bliss in Britain with Ritchie and her two children in recent years, brushed off the criticism.
"The critics have been writing me off for 20 years. That's nothing new. As far as I know I still have plenty of fans and sell lots of records. Do I care what critics say about me? No, and I don't read reviews."
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Why does she perceive these as America's values? Not because they are, but because she's out of touch with America. Those are Hollywood's values, not America's. Sure, American's like to live life comfortably. Sure, American's like to be successful. Do we like to do this at the expense of others? Not most of us, and not any more than anyone from another country or culture would. If all one does is look to celebrities and the most prominant 2% of Americans, then the only view of American values to be seen is the one Madonna describes. Rather, look to the countless blue collar workers, the farmers, the accountants, the secretaries, the chefs, etc, and you'll find that their values aren't greed, but simply success - to be the best at what they do. I wouldn't want to live in a place wheer striving to be the best wasn't encouraged. Do some people try to achieve this by stepping on others and cheating and deceiving? Of course. Do most? No.

I find it amusing that someone who now lives in London and has spent the past 20 years living a lifestyle unlike the vast majority of Americans feels qualified to speak about "American values."
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Madonna Slams American Values

Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
"We as Americans are completely obsessed and wrapped up in a lot of the wrong values -- looking good, having cash in the bank, being perceived as rich, famous and successful or just being famous," Madonna told the television listings magazine.
"It's the most superficial part of the American dream and who would know better than me? The only thing that's going to bring you happiness is love and how you treat your fellow man and having compassion for one another."
I'm glad she added that "who would know better than me" bit. Otherwise it would sound like the Material Girl's gone off the deep end.

ART, am I still a pawn of the Entertainment Industrial Complex if I agreed with this opinion of Madonna's before she said it?
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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She must spend a lot of time in LA with her rich Hollywood friends.

I'll take her seriously when she donates all of the money besides what she needs to sustain the lifestyle of the average citizen to charity. But she won't do that, because she wants to keep her current lifestyle. The phrase "put your money where your mouth is" fits well here.

The pursuit of appearance, wealth, and power are seen in every nation on Earth, to some degree. Why? It's human nature, it attracts mates. It's easy to preach about the evils of material wealth when you've already gained everything you can from your pursuit of it.
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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ratbastid, heh heh.
it's a conundrum.
but IMO, we are trapped with no possibility of escape.
what we can do is warn others of the incipient brain rot that is spread by the innocently-named "entertainment industry".
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The one thing she has done is what most of the people in the US have been suggesting for years - "America! Love it or leave it". I wish others would take this suggestion to heart. Wonder if there is room in Madonna's neighborhood for the rest of our 'talented discedents'. They could start something like an entertainer's colony or something over there - or over anywhere. Just as long as they go. The Cheeky Chicks like to run their mouths in England - maybe Madonna could suggest a realtor for them.

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Old 04-25-2003, 04:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
what we can do is warn others of the incipient brain rot that is spread by the innocently-named "entertainment industry".
HAHAHA!
ART, you just have a way with words.

I don't understand why anyone has ever listened to her... Oh wait. I know. She was young and hot and dressed like a hot slut. Because of that she has had a major influence over millions of puppets that ate all of her spoon fed horse shit. That's scary.
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BastardStepChild
The one thing she has done is what most of the people in the US have been suggesting for years - "America! Love it or leave it".
Right! I never even thought of that. I wish she would take the Dizzy Cicks out of here.
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
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She's right, who should know better than her? The truth is, as she stated herself, that those are/were her values, but what gives her the right to speak for me and what my values are?

I really doesn't matter what she says. Again, she has an opinion just like eveyone else. She just has a bigger stage. The sad thing is that there a bunch of people who actually beleive this tripe that her and other big entertainers are spewing forth.
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The quotes here I think are a bit out of context since her current set of interviews going on through the propaganda machine all point to her realizing that she was wrong in her early life. Like Prince, Vanity, and some other entertainers in the past several years, have realized that their climb to superstardom really is irrellevant.

Madonna's current album lyrics (I've not listened to, but have only heard reviews and interviews) state that she's realized that it's family values, relationships, and other mundane things that make life truly matter.
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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We ARE talking about the Material Girl here, right?

Actually, she made remarks like this recently and a reporter asked her just that. How do you reconcile these views with your previous incarnations? She said that was her early work and she no longer supports material gain like that.

As long as she continues to get paid for the music she made during that "material girl" time, and not donate all and I mean EVERY PENNY FROM HERE ON OUT to charity, she can't be taken seriously.

Besides, there's a hell of a lot of people that think having a child out of wedlock is a sin and an abomination, and she has two. Me personally, I don't care, but she might want to move out of that glass house before she starts throwing stones.

Besides, we all know she's so against material wealth and, making money and pro-compassion for her fellow human beings, since she so vocally supports file sharing and peer-to-peer technology. Oh wait, no she doesn't, in fact, she puts decoy mp3's out there. So... um, yeah.

-Mikey
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Oh no. Madonna has called us all money-chasing consumer whores.

* faint plop*

Do you hear that?....




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Old 04-25-2003, 06:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, luckily for her we're all money-chasing consumer whores, eh? Otherwise she'd probably be a porn star, prostitute or dead...
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The deeper problem is: Why do we look to enertainers like Madonna to get our idea of what we should be?

Not to say all entertainers are dumb and have wacky opinions, some of them are fairly smart and seem like you could have a decent conversation with them. However, after reading interviews and watching some of them, you can tell they're rubbing there last few brain cells together really hard and not getting much. Why do we listen to these people?

More importantly, how do we stop people listening to them?
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Even though I don't listen to Madonna anymore, I'll still download it, "American Life," from Piolet, in vengeance of her comments.

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Old 04-25-2003, 08:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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"There's like no books about anything."

I know there are some folks who are really into the Kabbalah. I dunno...I just reports 'em as I sees em...
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Madonna's tales of morality
04/2003
London - Pop diva Madonna has revealed her forthcoming children's books are morality tales based on the mystical Hebrew texts she studies.
The singer said she wants to write something deeper than the other "vapid and vacant" titles for youngsters.
In an interview for music channel VH-1 she complainsed that most children's titles contain no lessons.
Earlier this year she landed a deal but publisher Penguin would reveal no details of the contents. Only the title of the first of the five books, The English Roses, was disclosed.
But she told interviewer Megan Mullally, of TV's Will And Grace, that the books are based on the Kabbalah.
Madonna said: "I have a teacher I've been studying Kabbalah with for the last almost seven years now, and he's suggested that I write some children's stories based on a lot of things that I've learned in Kabbalah -so that's what I did."
She said she realised there was an opportunity when reading stories to her first child, daughter Lourdes, adding: "Now I'm starting to read to my son, but I couldn't believe how vapid and vacant and empty all the stories were.
"There were like no lessons, just all about princesses and like the beautiful prince arrives and he takes her for his wife and nothing happens, no efforts are made. Nobody asks her what her opinion is, or I didn't see anybody struggling for things. There's like no books about anything.”
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:54 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I didn't realize books for 2 year olds were supposed to be about enlightenment. I thought they were just supposed to be enjoyable and beneficial to their reading education later on.


"I couldn't believe how vapid and vacant and empty all the stories were."

Just like their mommy.
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Listening to celebrities political ideas always makes my head hurt. Madonna is a great example of why. She bashes how vain and greedy we all are, but at the same time, her entire career was based on her greed and vainity. The thing that always gets me though is how they all bitch and moan about all of the problems, here's an idea, give a solution. Don't just whine about things, find a way to improve. If you don't have a better idea, don't complain.

And her writing a childrens book, that's classic.
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Now that's interesting that Madonna would judge others "obsessed" with getting rich and looking good when her entire career was based on shit music and a douche bag/slut/whore image.
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:29 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I think it's funny these comments came from an interview that is part of an album publicity tour (Think $$$).

Also, how come it's always so easy to denounce material things <i>after</i> you've already got a few mansions full of them?
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:38 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
The quotes here I think are a bit out of context since her current set of interviews going on through the propaganda machine all point to her realizing that she was wrong in her early life. Like Prince, Vanity, and some other entertainers in the past several years, have realized that their climb to superstardom really is irrellevant.

Madonna's current album lyrics (I've not listened to, but have only heard reviews and interviews) state that she's realized that it's family values, relationships, and other mundane things that make life truly matter.
Looks like some of you missed that post, so I'm repeating it.

I remember someone posting a thread about learning from the mistakes of others. Instead of bashing Madonna for her mistakes, perhaps some of you could do well to learn from them. Just don't hurt yourself thinking about it
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Cynthetiq
The quotes here I think are a bit out of context since her current set of interviews going on through the propaganda machine all point to her realizing that she was wrong in her early life. Like Prince, Vanity, and some other entertainers in the past several years, have realized that their climb to superstardom really is irrellevant.

Madonna's current album lyrics (I've not listened to, but have only heard reviews and interviews) state that she's realized that it's family values, relationships, and other mundane things that make life truly matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Looks like some of you missed that post, so I'm repeating it.

I remember someone posting a thread about learning from the mistakes of others. Instead of bashing Madonna for her mistakes, perhaps some of you could do well to learn from them. Just don't hurt yourself thinking about it




Actually, I got the point.
I'm not buying it.
And it didn't hurt my head to think about it.

Thanks for your reiteration and your concern.
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:48 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
Actually, I got the point.
I'm not buying it.
And it didn't hurt my head to think about it.

Thanks for your reiteration and your concern.
well that's good, my post wasn't really directed at you then. But maybe you could clarify what you mean when you say you're "not buying it"?
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, well Madonna has no fucking values in the first place.


The "Sex" book. Hello. Duh?
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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maximusveritas,
This "entertainer" is responsible for an unestimable amount of value-reduction and self-image slaughter in uncounted numbers of world youth. That's how I see her "career".

When an egregious offender (let's say a common criminal who "finds god" in jail, for example - there are many other examples - the wayward preacher, etc.) stands upon the platform of past sins and speaks from the podium that has been bought and paid for by the spoils of same and uses the same channels of communication previously used for her impoverishing, tainted "entertainment" and spews her egotistical rantings of the moment upon the audiences she has co-opted for several media generations, I am unconvinced of her sincerity, question her motives, and refuse to give her the benefit of the doubt.

The type of situation outlined above is typically descriptive of megalomaniacal hypocrisy and earns neither favor nor consideration from me as regards other human beings on this planet.

Maybe if she admitted the destructive nature of her existence and the obscene influence it has had on our world, and took on a Mother Theresa-like lifestyle, I would be open to the possibilities you suggest. Short of that, I remain unmoved...
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Old 04-25-2003, 02:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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ok, i can certainly understand and even agree with that to a certain extent. But even if you do not take her to be sincere, can't we all learn from her past mistakes? Don't attack the messenger in lieu of listening to the message, that's all i'm saying.
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Old 04-25-2003, 02:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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IMHO,

Madonna is the BEST modern example of shallowness, self-absorption, and consumerism in America in the 80's and 90's. So I find it very hypocritical of her to now 'slam' anyone. If she wants to reform a la St. Augustine, then great. Otherwise, she's just a whiny bitch with a worn out twat and a half dead career and not worth the time to listen to, again IMHO...
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Old 04-25-2003, 04:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I have just never gotten the Madonna thing. I never thought she had any talent except for manipulating the masses into thinking she was attractive and could sing, and provide insight into their lives. Her songs and videos have always been the perfect examples of pseudointellectualism.

Now I find that I must give her credit for completely mastering the art of irony.
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Why would I want to learn from Madonna's mistakes? Her self-promoting rise to the soapbox/pulpit is just as bad as the Sunday morning televangelists spewing forth their brand of rhetoric.

I just get irritated when the filthy rich, who make their living "entertaining" the masses by whatever means necessary and commanding ridiculous compensation for a modicum of work, start to preach family values and poverty.

If Madonna were to give just a significant amount to charity, (I'm not asking for it all) or maybe donate her time to important issues instead of hiding out in London behind her 50 bajillion dollar wrought iron gate with motion sensors, maybe I could start to see a tithe of credability here. It's all well good to preach about the "fellowship of man" and "loving thy neighbor" it's quite different to actually live the life.

So, she's writing children's books. Good for her. I'm sure they will sell well, because the same folks she's slamming about their "American Values" are the same folks lining up to buy her vapid little book.

Apparently Madonna and I live in two distinctively different Americas'
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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That tiresome drama queen can toss my salad, with all due respect.
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I'll take her money and fame, you know, give her a sense of redemption, I would be doing my part in helping my fellow man. (woman)
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Why the fuck should Madonna care? She lives in fucking London for crying out loud! Also, didn't she fake a British accent? Not that I have anything against the British, but if she wanted to bitch about "American Values," don't you think she should bitch in America?

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