This just in: Astrology is bullshit! Well Duh! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CSflim · 08-19-2003, 11:29 AM

I can't actually believe that they actually spent money on conducting an experiment such as this.
Yet more proof, as if proof were needed, that if you believe in Astrology you're a moron.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/nstars17.xml

Quote:

Astrologers fail to predict proof they are wrong
(Filed: 17/08/2003)

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhere: just as you might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish, writes Science Correspondent Robert Matthews.

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhere: just as you might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish.

Its central claim - that our human characteristics are moulded by the influence of the Sun, Moon and planets at the time of our birth - appears to have been debunked once and for all and beyond doubt by the most thorough scientific study ever made into it.

For several decades, researchers tracked more than 2,000 people - most of them born within minutes of each other. According to astrology, the subject should have had very similar traits.

The babies were originally recruited as part of a medical study begun in London in 1958 into how the circumstances of birth can affect future health. More than 2,000 babies born in early March that year were registered and their development monitored at regular intervals.

Researchers looked at more than 100 different characteristics, including occupation, anxiety levels, marital status, aggressiveness, sociability, IQ levels and ability in art, sport, mathematics and reading - all of which astrologers claim can be gauged from birth charts.

The scientists failed to find any evidence of similarities between the "time twins", however. They reported in the current issue of the Journal of Consciousness Studies: "The test conditions could hardly have been more conducive to success . . . but the results are uniformly negative."

Analysis of the research was carried out by Geoffrey Dean, a scientist and former astrologer based in Perth, Australia, and Ivan Kelly, a psychologist at the University of Saskatchewan, Canada.

Dr Dean said the results undermined the claims of astrologers, who typically work with birth data far less precise than that used in the study. "They sometimes argue that times of birth just a minute apart can make all the difference by altering what they call the 'house cusps'," he said. "But in their work, they are happy to take whatever time they can get from a client."

The findings caused alarm and anger in astrological circles yesterday. Roy Gillett, the president of the Astrological Association of Great Britain, said the study's findings should be treated "with extreme caution" and accused Dr Dean of seeking to "discredit astrology".

Frank McGillion, a consultant to the Southampton-based Research Group for the Critical Study of Astrology, said of the newly published work: "It is simplistic and highly selective and does not cover all of the research." He added that he would lodge a complaint with the editors of the journal.

Astrologers have for centuries claimed to be able to extract deep insights into the personality and destiny of people using nothing more than the details of the time and place of birth.

Astrology has been growing in popularity. Surveys suggest that a majority of people in Britain believe in it, compared with only 13 per cent 50 years ago. The Association of Professional Astrologers claims that 80 per cent of Britons read star columns, and psychological studies have found that 60 per cent regularly read their horoscopes.

Despite the scepticism of scientists, astrology has grown to be a huge worldwide business, spawning thousands of telephone lines, internet sites and horoscope columns in newspapers and magazines.

It seems that no sector of society is immune to its attraction. A recent survey found that a third of science students subscribed to some aspects of astrology, while some supposedly hard-headed businessmen now support a thriving market in "financial astrology" - paying for predictions of trends such as the rise and fall of the stock market. Astrology supplements have been known to increase newspaper circulation figures and papers are prepared to pay huge sums to the most popular stargazers.

Some of the most popular figures in the field, such as Russell Grant, Mystic Meg and Shelley von Strunckel, can earn £600,000 or more a year.

A single profitable astrology website can be worth as much as £50 million.

When the Daily Mail discovered that its expert on the zodiac, Jonathan Cainer, was about to leave the newspaper in 1999, it reportedly offered him a £1 million salary and a £1 million bonus to stay. He still preferred the offer at the Daily Express: no salary but all the money from his telephone lines.

The time-twins study is only the start of the bad news for astrologers, however. Dr Dean and Prof Kelly also sought to determine whether stargazers could match a birth chart to the personality profile of a person among a random selection.

They reviewed the evidence from more than 40 studies involving over 700 astrologers, but found the results turned out no better than guesswork.

The success rate did not improve even when astrologers were given all the information they asked for and were confident they had made the right choice.

Dr Dean said the consistency of the findings weighed heavily against astrology.

"It has no acceptable mechanism, its principles are invalid and it has failed hundreds of tests," he said. "But no hint of these problems will be found in astrology books which, in effect, are exercises in deception."

Dr Dean is ready for a torrent of criticism. He said: "I'm probably the most hated person in astrology because I'm regarded as a turncoat."

But I have to say, I am absolutely disgusted at the amount of money that can be made from this bullshit!

EDIT: Btw, what an awful headline!

TheKak · 08-19-2003, 04:30 PM

That headline kicks ass. Most of all, if you believed in this shit, you are indeed a moron. Though in all honesty, even if people read this article or read the study material, it probably wont change their minds about anything.

MSD · 08-19-2003, 06:09 PM

What I think happens is that people get astrological predictions, and end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sledge · 08-19-2003, 09:25 PM

Who are you going to believe? The scientists... or the STARS?

anti fishstick · 08-20-2003, 02:02 AM

astrology is all about self-validation. i think it's silly that scientists had to experiment on this topic when it's already pretty obvious that it's a psuedo-science

Beltruckus · 08-20-2003, 11:25 AM

Today is your lucky day, someone will say some nice things to you, but beware there is someone that really doesn't hold you in high regard but will act kindly towards you. Keep your eyes open and you will be ok. This month is a good time to expand your horizons, there are many factors that are converging that makes this YOUR month.

BentNotTwisted · 08-20-2003, 12:15 PM

People who believe in Astrology are similar to those who believe in Creationism. It doesn't matter how many studies are published they are still going to believe what their astrologer or some newspaper horoscope column says. If someone doesn't want to be a critical thinker it's their loss.

CSflim · 08-21-2003, 04:27 PM

This just in! Mystic Meg disagrees with scientists! Well Duh!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2003380897,00.html

Quote:

SCIENTISTS and astrologers are engaged in a new star wars – over whether horoscopes are a load of rubbish.

Canadian boffins claim to have discredited the idea that our characteristics and lives are shaped by the influence of the sun, moon and other planets when we are born.

They spent several decades studying 2,000 Britons born within minutes of each other and concluded that astrologers’ belief that they all had similar traits was nonsense.

But astrologers are furious at the report and say its findings are simplistic and highly selective.

Here, the world’s top astrologer, The Sun’s own Mystic Meg, hits back.

OF course, I should have seen this attack coming – scientists love to discredit things they can’t explain.

And, needless to say, it doesn’t take an astrologer to foresee that I totally disagree with these “findings”.

This report in Canada’s Journal of Consciousness Studies doesn’t prove a thing.

The claims are based on 2,000 Pisces babies, born in 1958, and assessed at the ages of 11, 16, and 23.

You will notice straight away that the “experts” actually finished their survey in 1981 — so this “new study” has been gathering dust for 22 years.

The researchers claim the guinea pigs’ characters and the way their lives worked out were not similar — and, therefore, that their astrological birthcharts were worthless.

First of all, a survey based on just one zodiac sign — and without any reference to the other 12 — doesn’t seem very thorough.

And there is much more to take into account than the position of the sun when a birthchart is calculated. Something new happens in the sky every few minutes.

Secondly, one of the two authors, Geoffrey Dean was once an astrologer — obviously not a very successful one — and now makes a living from claiming it is all nonsense.

At best, these findings are just a matter of opinion — after all, science is not the same as fact.

Think how one week you read a scientific report saying coffee is bad for you, followed, a week later, by an equally scientific report saying that coffee is good for you.

Astrology is more of a belief system.

Not even astrologers agree exactly why it works but they firmly believe from their own experience that it does.

Because of that scientists feel uneasy about it and only a handful ever dare to speak up in its favour.

But don’t you find that the best things in life are those you can’t explain?

Who can truly understand how we fall in love, the feelings we get watching a beautiful sunset, or that sense of knowing who is calling you just before the phone rings?

Astrology goes back 6,000 years, and for all that time people have studied the skies and seen a link between the movement of the planets, against the fixed background of the stars and what happens down here on Earth.

Astrologers have passed on their knowledge over the generations to help clients.

I love the letters I get from Sun readers saying how my daily star forecasts have worked out.

I have to confess that I did a survey of my own some years ago.

More than 350,000 people, from all the 12 star signs, filled in a special questionnaire about their love lives. In all the categories the star sign made a real difference.

For instance, my survey revealed that eight out of ten women said their best ever sex was with a Scorpio male, while men rated Aries as the sexiest woman.

The secret fantasies of every star sign were different, too.

With women, Aries has sexy dreams about athletes, Taurus wants chefs, Gemini fancies politicians.

Cancer melts for home makeover kings, Leo fantasises about movie stars, Virgo yearns for firemen.

Libra wants to score with footballers, Scorpio loves soap stars and Sagittarius are turned on by newsreaders.

Capricorn dreams of policemen, Aquarius fantasises about pop stars and Pisces has a thing for film directors.

And for the men, Aries loves nurses, while for Taurus it is pop stars.

Gemini has a yen for newsreaders, Cancer fantasises about secretaries, Leo loves Hollywood stars. Virgo fantasises about exotic dancers, Libra, tennis stars.

Scorpio likes Page 3 girls, Sagittarius is switched on by telly doctors and Capricorn are mad for policewomen. Aquarius loves TV presenters and Pisces has the hots for teachers.

I think these results have more relevance to you than the conclusions of a bunch of scientific spoilsports.

Man, you don't know how funny I find this article. Especially the last line!

CSflim · 08-21-2003, 04:33 PM

BTW I think a FAR simpler proof of how Astrology is bullshit would be as follows:

Take Mystic Meg and put her in a room.
Get a couple of thousand volounteers,

One by one they visit Mystic Meg.
She then procedes to ask them a series of questions. Anything she likes, except not asking anything directly relating to date of birth, or star sign.

Afterwards she has to deicide what star sign each volounteer is.

What do you think her sucess rate would be? I'm guessing that it would be roughly 8.33%

Johnny Rotten · 08-21-2003, 10:30 PM

The world is an unpredictable place, and many people are willing to lower their bullshit detectors in order to pay someone else to make sense of it for them.

6000 years is kinda of a long time for there to be no consensus among astrologers about how their system works.

GakFace · 08-22-2003, 05:40 PM

CSFilm and everyone else. Sure the general crap you get in the newspaper is just that... crap.

BUT!!!........ When I worked at Target, there was someone that I worked with that studied up on this stuff. I may be a skeptic of this stuff, but I'll be damned if she didn't get everyone of us correct. If Meg Mystic has truely studied up on this stuff, I'm willing to give her 85%+....

I'm still not agreeing that horoscopes are true, they're so vague they can almost always apply, that and even then a lot of times they don't apply to me

WhoaitsZ · 08-22-2003, 06:57 PM

i never believed in Astrology much.

there are a couple of things i can't dispute, though that is (to me) obvious scientific fact.

the positions of the moon effects human beings and many, many animals.

maybe they were bored artists but i find the coincedence of a tribe in Africa to do drawings that depicted events both then and now hard to acknowledge. unforunately i cannot remember details and currently have zero proof.

if the moon can makes us act fuckin weird i assume the rest of our galaxy's gravitational waves would affect us also, thus making behavoires possible to predict.

ninety09 · 08-22-2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheKak
That headline kicks ass. Most of all, if you believed in this shit, you are indeed a moron. Though in all honesty, even if people read this article or read the study material, it probably wont change their minds about anything.

Moron might be a little harsh, I'd say they're just very very gullible

WhoaitsZ · 08-22-2003, 11:47 PM

hmm. i wonder how skeptics would feel if we went onto their discussions and said

HAHAHAHA WHAT MORONIC GULLIBLE FOOOLS HAHAAHAHAHA

it's getting o my nerves.

most stuff people say and think can be stupid. but being called such things on the board we finally recieved is getting goddamned old.

we finally get something for us who are not affraid to say We Believe Differently

get off my back, pleas.

GakFace · 08-22-2003, 11:56 PM

I Concur.

I mean what is TFP about? It sure as hell isn't about flaming people thats for sure. If you wanna make jokes or something, do it on your own terms, or go to the NONSENSE forums.

THIS section are for us people who DO see ghosts, who DO see UFOs, who DO believe in astralogy. See if you keep flaming people for what they think, then how can they express themselves and see who else thinks like they do, sees like they do, experiences what they do? They can't because people are too busy making sure they are too scared to speak out. This is TFP, the rules are the same as any other forum, show respect or shut up!

There was one man on here, who I had a debate with. He disagreed with my beliefs, BUT he kept it civil and not once called me a moron for what I thought.. NOT ONCE did he laugh saying "Those are the funniest two posts I've ever read on TFP." NOT ONCE did he make me feel unwelcome in a place thats my internet home. But some of you out there have, and I suggest you stop... or simply leave.

CSflim · 08-23-2003, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WhoaitsZ
i never believed in Astrology much.

there are a couple of things i can't dispute, though that is (to me) obvious scientific fact.

the positions of the moon effects human beings and many, many animals.

maybe they were bored artists but i find the coincedence of a tribe in Africa to do drawings that depicted events both then and now hard to acknowledge. unforunately i cannot remember details and currently have zero proof.

if the moon can makes us act fuckin weird i assume the rest of our galaxy's gravitational waves would affect us also, thus making behavoires possible to predict.

The force impated on you by an object is inversely proportional to the square of its distance from you.
In other words, things far away have very little force on you.
A person standing next to you imparts a much larger gravitational force then a celestial object.
Are you suggestiong that babies delivered by fat physicians are going to end up having distorted personalities?

CSflim · 08-23-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakFace
[B0BUT!!!........ When I worked at Target, there was someone that I worked with that studied up on this stuff. I may be a skeptic of this stuff, but I'll be damned if she didn't get everyone of us correct. If Meg Mystic has truely studied up on this stuff, I'm willing to give her 85%+...[/B]

Did you tell her your star sign and she told you your personality, or did you tell her your personality and she told you your star sign?

CSflim · 08-23-2003, 01:41 PM

JUST IN CASE anyone cannot see through "Mystic Meg's" woefully inadequate "rebuttal", I shall go through it with you. (I have "rebuttal" in inverted commas as I really don't think that it is worthy of such a lofty title)

Quote:

SCIENTISTS and astrologers are engaged in a new star wars – over whether horoscopes are a load of rubbish.

Canadian boffins claim to have discredited the idea that our characteristics and lives are shaped by the influence of the sun, moon and other planets when we are born.

They spent several decades studying 2,000 Britons born within minutes of each other and concluded that astrologers’ belief that they all had similar traits was nonsense.

But astrologers are furious at the report and say its findings are simplistic and highly selective.

Here, the world’s top astrologer, The Sun’s own Mystic Meg, hits back.

OF course, I should have seen this attack coming – scientists love to discredit things they can’t explain.

Yeah, scientists hate trying to solve a puzzle, which is why nobody bothers to study quantum physics, or particle physics, or super-string theory.

Quote:

And, needless to say, it doesn’t take an astrologer to foresee that I totally disagree with these “findings”.

Yeah, And I'm sure your accountant hoped that you would disagree also.

Quote:

This report in Canada’s Journal of Consciousness Studies doesn’t prove a thing.

The claims are based on 2,000 Pisces babies, born in 1958, and assessed at the ages of 11, 16, and 23.

You will notice straight away that the “experts” actually finished their survey in 1981 — so this “new study” has been gathering dust for 22 years.

Nope. They stopped receiving new data in that year. The report is only coming out now. Why the delay? Can't say for sure, but I'm sure it wasn't exactly high priority stuff. I'm still amazed anyone bothered.

Quote:

The researchers claim the guinea pigs’ characters and the way their lives worked out were not similar — and, therefore, that their astrological birthcharts were worthless.

First of all, a survey based on just one zodiac sign — and without any reference to the other 12 — doesn’t seem very thorough.

There's 13 star signs? Or maybe math just isn't your strong point.
Anyway, so what are you saying? Only one of your star signs are ineffective? And coincidently that is the one which has been proven to be a fraud?

Quote:

And there is much more to take into account than the position of the sun when a birthchart is calculated. Something new happens in the sky every few minutes.

Which is precisely why the subjects were all born within a minute of each other.

Anyway, if you are saying that you need to know the exact time of someone's birth in order to make any kind of useful prediction, then what the hell are the weekly 12 (13!?) start signs doing in your column every week? Just conning the punters so you can get a weekly salary?

Quote:

Secondly, one of the two authors, Geoffrey Dean was once an astrologer — obviously not a very successful one — and now makes a living from claiming it is all nonsense.

Ohh goody! It's the epitome of a logic argument: The character assassination! Surely that fact that one of the authors has first hand experience in the field would lend credibility to the report, not take away from it?

Quote:

At best, these findings are just a matter of opinion — after all, science is not the same as fact.

Hehehe. I can't even rebut this, I laughing too hard….*ahem*
All of the characteristics were based on objective quantities. No opinion was involved.
Further more if you are going to claim that science is not grounded in fact when defending astrology.....sorry can't go on. laughing too hard.

Quote:

Think how one week you read a scientific report saying coffee is bad for you, followed, a week later, by an equally scientific report saying that coffee is good for you.

Not the same thing. In this type of situation there are a huge number of variables to take into account, that is why you end up with the inconsistencies. Astrology is the exact opposite, it claims that everything boils down to just one variable: Date of Birth.

Quote:

Astrology is more of a belief system.

Not even astrologers agree exactly why it works but they firmly believe from their own experience that it does.

Maybe they "believe", because they can rake in a load of cash, without having to bother to get up off their arses and get a real job.
Actually come to think of it, that not a bad idea. Here *I* am working my ass off to make money. Maybe *I* could adopt such a belief system?

Quote:

Because of that scientists feel uneasy about it and only a handful ever dare to speak up in its favour.

Yeah. that's true. Scientists are infamous about being shy about their opinions. The majority of scientists are probably in the closet about checking their signs every week.

Quote:

But don’t you find that the best things in life are those you can’t explain?

Who can truly understand how we fall in love, the feelings we get watching a beautiful sunset, or that sense of knowing who is calling you just before the phone rings?

Astrology goes back 6,000 years, and for all that time people have studied the skies and seen a link between the movement of the planets, against the fixed background of the stars and what happens down here on Earth.

Astrologers have passed on their knowledge over the generations to help clients.

hmmmm......

Quote:

I love the letters I get from Sun readers saying how my daily star forecasts have worked out.

I have to confess that I did a survey of my own some years ago.

More than 350,000 people, from all the 12 star signs, filled in a special questionnaire about their love lives. In all the categories the star sign made a real difference.

For instance, my survey revealed that eight out of ten women said their best ever sex was with a Scorpio male, while men rated Aries as the sexiest woman.

The secret fantasies of every star sign were different, too.

With women, Aries has sexy dreams about athletes, Taurus wants chefs, Gemini fancies politicians.

Cancer melts for home makeover kings, Leo fantasises about movie stars, Virgo yearns for firemen.

Libra wants to score with footballers, Scorpio loves soap stars and Sagittarius are turned on by newsreaders.

Capricorn dreams of policemen, Aquarius fantasises about pop stars and Pisces has a thing for film directors.

And for the men, Aries loves nurses, while for Taurus it is pop stars.

Gemini has a yen for newsreaders, Cancer fantasises about secretaries, Leo loves Hollywood stars. Virgo fantasises about exotic dancers, Libra, tennis stars.

Scorpio likes Page 3 girls, Sagittarius is switched on by telly doctors and Capricorn are mad for policewomen. Aquarius loves TV presenters and Pisces has the hots for teachers.

hang on...just a second.....*scrolls back up*...
Didn't you, just a second ago, use the fact that the births have to be exact to the minute in order to get correlations such as this to discredit the scientific report? You may be an idiot, but you could at least be a consistent idiot.
Or maybe sexual fantasies are one of the traits that aren't effected by these by the minute celestial changes? Which coincidentally was not one of the traits in the report!
Wow they were an unlucky pair! Studying the only defective star sign, and comparing only traits that could not be used, as they could be affected by birth times of mere minutes, despite the fact that this was taken into consideration!

Quote:

I think these results have more relevance to you than the conclusions of a bunch of scientific spoilsports.

MUHAHAHAHAHA. I love this line so much, I really do!

Johnny Rotten · 08-23-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakFace

THIS section are for us people who DO see ghosts, who DO see UFOs, who DO believe in astralogy. See if you keep flaming people for what they think, then how can they express themselves and see who else thinks like they do, sees like they do, experiences what they do? They can't because people are too busy making sure they are too scared to speak out. This is TFP, the rules are the same as any other forum, show respect or shut up!
[/B]

I didn't mean what I said as a slam on the beliefs of those who frequent the Paranoia message board. But because I have an open mind about many strange things and events doesn't mean I have to accept all of the occult/paranormal/etc., lock, stock and barrel. My ex-GF was seriously into numerology and astrology, and I accepted her beliefs because I loved her and respected her opinions, as I do yours. But you can't expect people to believe in horoscopes because they've seen some ghosts

. More likely, perhaps, but not a guarantee.

WhoaitsZ · 08-23-2003, 07:29 PM

JR: gak and I decided to post what we did last not based on personal beliefs. we don't care if your an atheist or a friggen scientologist.

what we do care about is seeing our friends get constantly ragged on here: one of the few forums open to any adults that has such a board.

me and gak have requested and fought for this board before 3.0 died.

we were happy nobody, not once, bothered us on the original "Okay i'm starting to get freaked out" thread by wrkime. there were a few jokes, but no one was ever rude. you guys were.

so.... now we have our board... and what do we see? name calling.

i don't believe in astrology, but who gives a flying fuck? someone does and i will respect them for it.

I respect your view.

i do not and most likely will not tolerate name calling.

take it or leave it.

redravin40 · 08-23-2003, 08:01 PM

Listen up folks!!!

I have moved this from the Paranormal Board over here to General Discussion.
You can keep up the conversation as long as it stays friendly and reasonable.

Tiger69z · 08-24-2003, 08:21 AM

Er...

Yea, I personally believe in astrology, because on more than one occasion, it has been correct.

I was at first pretty much just looking at them for entertainment, but when they ended up being accurate on more than one occasion, I started to believe in them.

The first time, was when i went and approached a girl at school...then when i got back and checked out my horoscopes, it said something along the lines of "today you might impress someone with your gift of gab, but don't forget to get their phone number."

So that had me pretty much amazed, so i started checking them more often....

Eitherway, this is just me and my personal experiences i feel that astrology, shouldn't be taken really seriously, but can give you like a general idea of what's to come and stuff.

after all, weren't we all once part of the stars? (big bang theory?)

I don't really mind scientists bashing astrology...after all, this stuff is so random and more often than not, wrong

oh well my 2 cents

MikeyChalupa · 08-25-2003, 02:37 AM

Quote:

For instance, my survey revealed that eight out of ten women said their best ever sex was with a Scorpio male...

Scorpio likes Page 3 girls...

I'm a Scorpio, I'm convinced, it's all true...

Actually, if astrology is based on the positions of the sun, moon, and planets at any given time, and dates back 6000 years, how did we account for the positions of Mercury, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, which were only discovered in 1610, 1781, 1846, and 1930 respectively? It seems like every other year we find new moons around Jupiter, do they start counting all of a sudden? If not, why? Why does only our planet's moon count?

Anybody ever see the Kentucky Fried Movie? I always thought this was one of the best lines:

"It's 19 minutes after the hour, and now it's time for our daily feature: The Astrological Hour. A quick reminder these reports are not intended to foster belief in astrology, but merely to support people who cannot take responsibility for their own lives."

-Mikey

08-19-2003, 04:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
TheKak Insane Location: Virginia	That headline kicks ass. Most of all, if you believed in this shit, you are indeed a moron. Though in all honesty, even if people read this article or read the study material, it probably wont change their minds about anything. __________________ Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

08-20-2003, 02:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	astrology is all about self-validation. i think it's silly that scientists had to experiment on this topic when it's already pretty obvious that it's a psuedo-science __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-20-2003, 11:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
Beltruckus Psycho Location: Salt Lake City	Today is your lucky day, someone will say some nice things to you, but beware there is someone that really doesn't hold you in high regard but will act kindly towards you. Keep your eyes open and you will be ok. This month is a good time to expand your horizons, there are many factors that are converging that makes this YOUR month. __________________ The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

08-20-2003, 12:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	People who believe in Astrology are similar to those who believe in Creationism. It doesn't matter how many studies are published they are still going to believe what their astrologer or some newspaper horoscope column says. If someone doesn't want to be a critical thinker it's their loss. __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

08-21-2003, 04:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	BTW I think a FAR simpler proof of how Astrology is bullshit would be as follows: Take Mystic Meg and put her in a room. Get a couple of thousand volounteers, One by one they visit Mystic Meg. She then procedes to ask them a series of questions. Anything she likes, except not asking anything directly relating to date of birth, or star sign. Afterwards she has to deicide what star sign each volounteer is. What do you think her sucess rate would be? I'm guessing that it would be roughly 8.33% __________________

08-19-2003, 06:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	What I think happens is that people get astrological predictions, and end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy.

08-19-2003, 09:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	Who are you going to believe? The scientists... or the STARS?

08-21-2003, 10:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
Johnny Rotten lost and found Location: Berkeley	The world is an unpredictable place, and many people are willing to lower their bullshit detectors in order to pay someone else to make sense of it for them. 6000 years is kinda of a long time for there to be no consensus among astrologers about how their system works. __________________ "The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

08-22-2003, 05:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	CSFilm and everyone else. Sure the general crap you get in the newspaper is just that... crap. BUT!!!........ When I worked at Target, there was someone that I worked with that studied up on this stuff. I may be a skeptic of this stuff, but I'll be damned if she didn't get everyone of us correct. If Meg Mystic has truely studied up on this stuff, I'm willing to give her 85%+.... I'm still not agreeing that horoscopes are true, they're so vague they can almost always apply, that and even then a lot of times they don't apply to me __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

08-22-2003, 06:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	i never believed in Astrology much. there are a couple of things i can't dispute, though that is (to me) obvious scientific fact. the positions of the moon effects human beings and many, many animals. maybe they were bored artists but i find the coincedence of a tribe in Africa to do drawings that depicted events both then and now hard to acknowledge. unforunately i cannot remember details and currently have zero proof. if the moon can makes us act fuckin weird i assume the rest of our galaxy's gravitational waves would affect us also, thus making behavoires possible to predict.

08-22-2003, 11:47 PM	#14 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	hmm. i wonder how skeptics would feel if we went onto their discussions and said HAHAHAHA WHAT MORONIC GULLIBLE FOOOLS HAHAAHAHAHA it's getting o my nerves. most stuff people say and think can be stupid. but being called such things on the board we finally recieved is getting goddamned old. we finally get something for us who are not affraid to say We Believe Differently get off my back, pleas.

08-22-2003, 11:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	I Concur. I mean what is TFP about? It sure as hell isn't about flaming people thats for sure. If you wanna make jokes or something, do it on your own terms, or go to the NONSENSE forums. THIS section are for us people who DO see ghosts, who DO see UFOs, who DO believe in astralogy. See if you keep flaming people for what they think, then how can they express themselves and see who else thinks like they do, sees like they do, experiences what they do? They can't because people are too busy making sure they are too scared to speak out. This is TFP, the rules are the same as any other forum, show respect or shut up! There was one man on here, who I had a debate with. He disagreed with my beliefs, BUT he kept it civil and not once called me a moron for what I thought.. NOT ONCE did he laugh saying "Those are the funniest two posts I've ever read on TFP." NOT ONCE did he make me feel unwelcome in a place thats my internet home. But some of you out there have, and I suggest you stop... or simply leave. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

08-23-2003, 07:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	JR: gak and I decided to post what we did last not based on personal beliefs. we don't care if your an atheist or a friggen scientologist. what we do care about is seeing our friends get constantly ragged on here: one of the few forums open to any adults that has such a board. me and gak have requested and fought for this board before 3.0 died. we were happy nobody, not once, bothered us on the original "Okay i'm starting to get freaked out" thread by wrkime. there were a few jokes, but no one was ever rude. you guys were. so.... now we have our board... and what do we see? name calling. i don't believe in astrology, but who gives a flying fuck? someone does and i will respect them for it. I respect your view. i do not and most likely will not tolerate name calling. take it or leave it.

08-23-2003, 08:01 PM	#21 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	Listen up folks!!! I have moved this from the Paranormal Board over here to General Discussion. You can keep up the conversation as long as it stays friendly and reasonable.

08-24-2003, 08:21 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tiger69z Banned Location: Sunny S.FLA	Er... Yea, I personally believe in astrology, because on more than one occasion, it has been correct. I was at first pretty much just looking at them for entertainment, but when they ended up being accurate on more than one occasion, I started to believe in them. The first time, was when i went and approached a girl at school...then when i got back and checked out my horoscopes, it said something along the lines of "today you might impress someone with your gift of gab, but don't forget to get their phone number." So that had me pretty much amazed, so i started checking them more often.... Eitherway, this is just me and my personal experiences i feel that astrology, shouldn't be taken really seriously, but can give you like a general idea of what's to come and stuff. after all, weren't we all once part of the stars? (big bang theory?) I don't really mind scientists bashing astrology...after all, this stuff is so random and more often than not, wrong oh well my 2 cents