Mael

am i the only one that really hates the term "bling bling?"

billege

I'll say this,

Hip hop is holding blacks back.

You want to know what else is?

The refusal to think that a huge anti-progress campaign like hip hop has no effect.

I never said hip hop was the one factor preventing black success. I said it isn't helping.
It's not.

Hip hop has been so successful it has earned Black America a whole new stereotype. Namely, the weed toking rapper.
If that's not proof of how widespread music's effect is, I don't know what else to tell you.

I can drive through my city's ghetto, and point to dozens upon dozens of rapper wannabees. They dress like them, they talk like, well I can't understand it, and they all seem to have $2000 rims on a beat to shit 94 Caprice.

I do find it interesting that when we discuss the positive effect music is capable of, there is no shortage of belivers. Read the music forum. There are plenty of threads, posts, about how a particular band, or song, or album touched a poster in a certain way. How that music meant so much, how it changed the way they thought, how it helped them through...

Denying that music is an ancient, powerful, form of human expression is to deny facts that are plainly obvious.
Music has power. It always has, it always will.

Like any form of power, music can have a negative effect.
The refusal to believe that is pure folly.

To all those that say this is the same yelp yelled when rock and roll hit the scene, I say it's possible they were right.

I don't think our society is anywhere near as peaceful or cohesive as it was before rock and roll. Who's to say it didn't cause some of the disentigration of our culture.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

bad30th

Youve got some good points Darkblack....

so, not to get into a quoting pissing match...buuuutt


It doesnt matter if they can or cant....it starts with WANTING IT. If you dont want it, it wont happen.

I am not a racist person, but ths is exactly the kind of thing that pisses me off about any race...everything a white person says is simply written off to racism. Please open you eyes and think about things before you simply dimiss them as thoughts from another racist white guy.

I am not sayng thatONLY black kids want to be rappers and musicians...youre missing my point. What I am saying is that I believe this is one reason the black community refuses to help itself...much of the black youth believes that they'll one day become some rich rapper and they can worry about furthering their community then. Or something like that.

Never said there werent. They are just so few and far between...and besides, its cool to be vulgar and misuse words, etc. That means you're hardcore

Firstly, how do you know that I dont?

Secondly, if it is a legitimate freestyle about something that matters to someone, fine. Fact is, its probably going to be about how I just went down to da sto' ta gets a fowdy an bust a cap indo owna Meaningless crap that does nothing but glorify themselves, crime, drugs, or demean women.


No, but at the same time, better than idolizing a person/group that glorifies crime, drugs, and 'da hoes' (well...youre probably right about Tommy and Pamela Lee...i sorta consider Tommy Lee to be a white rapper anyway lol )

By the way...not trying to offend anyone, please dont take this post that way

bad30th

well put, billege

Darkblack

Okay, here it is. I was going to start quoting again but I keep seeing the same stuff posted that I have already answered.

Yes, black kids want to be rappers, they want to be ballers, they want a fucking way out of the ghetto that isn't selling fucking drugs!! I am from the ghetto and I can tell you it is really hard to get out! When your school system is crap and your not learning anything it is hard to be an over achiever, because that is what you have to be. You have to be better than that kid in the suburb with the laptop and Internet access. He has found all the good scholarships online with the help of his guidance councilor and applied to all the good colleges. In the ghetto you hope that your a good enough baller that a college might pick you up or you need to be so much smarter than the other kids so that your paper you submitted to the county "write-a-thon" gets picked as best so you can win some cash for school.

Do you understand at all?

I made the KKK comment because of this statement.


In this statement you stereotype blacks as being lazy, criminals, uneducated, and illiterate. Maybe you didn't mean it that way but that is how it sounded.

I just think you all take advantage of the education you received. Not everyone is so lucky.

bad30th

Please dont insult my intelligence by asking me whether or not I "understand at all"

Well...I guess all you see is another racist white guy maing false generalizations about the black race...and I guess all I see is another racist black guy making excuses and defering blame.

Not trying to name-call, just making a point.

Also, if I am stereotyping blacks as being lazy, criminals, uneducated, and illiterate, then by the same token, arent you stereotyping whites as being super-motivated, pillars of justice and truth, supremely-intelligent, with every possible advantage to make our lives a cake-walk? [as i take a breath lol]

You are doing no such thing, and neither was I.

Its all about your perceptions man

Darkblack

Your last post was a waste of words and for the record I am more white than black so I know both sides of the fence. I would love to see where I stereotyped whites as being super-motivated, pillars of justice and truth, supremely-intelligent, with every possible advantage to make our lives a cake-walk?

The fact that you cannot accept that you had a better chance at life than some inner city kid is the problem. Not racism, although I am sure you have an issue there also.

I am not talking white or black I am talking location. I am talking education. You can call me a black guy looking for a hand out all you want. I can guarantee you that is not the case.

Shauk

wouldn't it be nice if the artist with all those millions of dollars would donate to the school district they came from?

that would be nice.

Darkblack

Well, it would. I am sure some do give back to their communities. I just think we need to put education under federal control and base the funding on number of students not test scores. All schools should have the same tools for teaching. It should not only be the rich school that has the nice planetarium. That way everyone is getting the same education.

docbungle

Hip Hop is not holding black kids back any more than Metal is holding white kids back. I listen to just as much hip hop as the next guy and it isn't holding me from anything. Niether is all the ridiculously hard metal I listen to holding me back.

For those who let music dictate who they are, there are just as many white kids who do exactly what black kids are being accused of in this thread. There are millions of little Eminems running around out there without the record contract. It does not mean that the "race is being held back". It means they are too easily influenced (whites and blacks alike) and need some knowledge of self.

__________________
Bad Luck City

bad30th

Alright you seriously need to calm down a bit man...I never once insulted you so I dont appreciate you insulting me.

How about you listen to what I am saying and respond to it instead of simply saying its a waste of words.....got you fired up didnt it? There must be a reason it did...which means it is not a waste of words, but rather me calling you out and you not having anything to say about it.

Please post something to contribute to this discussion instead of simply telling other people that their views are not worth listening to....

...isnt that the premise of this entire forum, to let everyone's views be heard and respected? Wheres the love lol

WhoaitsZ

dark and bath30, you two need to cuddle and fuck. get it over with. get rid of the tension!

mael: dude be careful: my sarcasm barely kept from knocking your head off about bling bling.


-- now for a bit of seriousness

for you guys who are truly worried about the affects on youth: tell me what you're involved in to help these kids.

big brother? mentor?

what is sad is lack of reality from fantasy for children who see and hear garbage (may it be Ice Cube or Cannibal Corpse). they see someone with money and pussy and such.

the only rap act I can think of who do not show off and act like they are the shit lately are The Roots. however, i've not watched videos in a few weeks.


if you dwell on the $$$ you will probably end up dealing because it is fast. the rappers always get away unless it's a self pity mellodrama in a prison.

poor kids. they see, drink, eat, breathe bullshit lies. it's sad.

Darkblack

okay,

Show me where in this post you addressed anything but trying to make me look like just as much a racist as you are.

Now look at all my posts. I think I am bringing content to the thread. I can't find anything worth reading in your last two posts.

If you want to discuss this topic like an adult great let's talk. If not, let's just drop it.

bad30th

if you choose not to find content in others' posts, that is your problem...as far as me being racist, well, takes on to know one i guess....but...[sarcasm]naaa a minotity cant be racist no way! its only those white people who are racist and bring everyone else down[/sarcasm]

I am done with you

Now on to a more adult conversation....and by the way, thank you WhoaitsZ for taking this thread in a more purposeful direction...but bath30 ? come on now!

I completely agree with you about the lack of a differentiation between reality and fantasy...well said

Darkblack

lol

I see you have made up your mind. Take care.

Cynthetiq

Darkblack/Bad30th...

keep it peaceful otherwise one of the mods may lock up this thread. It's been good discussion so far, but keep it even keeled and respectful.

Dark.... Colin Powell came from The Bronx one of the poorest communities in the US. Look where he is today.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

telekinetic2

Did I misinterpret, or did you stereotype black youth as criminals as well?

akirk

Earlier, Darkblack mentioned that the grandparents of todays Blacks were slaves, and had no jobs, so therefore it was not passed down like it is in White America. But, couldn't it then be true that if they were slaves, they should know how to work hard, and use THAT work ethic to pass down....seems to me that could go a long way for todays young Blacks.

I am white, 26YO, and I have worked for everything that I have...even though my father owns 3 construction companies and has alot of money. I have never seen any of that money(besides normal things that you do for your kids and family) because he thought it best that I learn to do things on my own.

I just think it is a lack of motivation here that we are talking about!

Darkblack

I don't understand you guys. You really think an entire race of people is unmotivated?

No, tele I did not stereotype blacks as criminals. I posted a scenario that you quoted. So twist my words if you like.

I am going to say this again and I am done with this thread. Nothing is holding blacks down but time. If you don't know what I mean read the thread again.

Thanks for the discussion. Was good until the last 10 or so posts. It is getting into some racial tension and I would like to stop it here.

thanks,

phoenix1002

I think that the way this thread has gone demonstrates the risk of making broad statements about anything. Of course there are exceptions to any statement. Darkblack, if you happen to see this, I don't think that anyone actually thinks that all black people are unmotivated, I think that, like Infinite Hybrid said, many (by no means all) black people are "waiting for someone to save them". There are a large number of unmotivated white people, too... I don't think its really a racial thing. There are just different results due to that lack of motivation, depending on things such as economic position, education, and location.

I think that hip-hop appeals to the black youths of today because they see successful black men and women who have all the trappings of wealth and power-the house, the car(s), the women-without necessarily having the education usually associated with these things. They see rap-stardom as a way of "getting out" without needing a higher education. The only problem is, it only works for a very small percentage. The rest are stuck desperately trying to salvage their lost dreams, with no real alternative because they dismissed their education in exchange for a chance at stardom. This is just my humble opinion, however.
edit: I'm not saying here that hip-hop is the cause of the problem, only a manifestation of the greater problem.

Also, another minor point. Someone mentioned freestyle earlier. At least to me, there seems to be a large difference between freestyle and mainstream rap. Freestyle is most definitely an artform. The ability to stand up in front of an audience and craft words along with the music is a gift. What is portrayed in rap videos is very different from that. A somewhat similar comparison would be to compare an underground band (with some skill) to a pop group like N'sync or Brittney Spears. The band will only attract listeners if they are skilled at their instruments and write good songs. The pop groups, like many rap artists, are manufactured by the record industries, then sold much like any other product. But now I'm rambling off the topic of this discussion, so I'll stop.

I know whenever race is involved, it is a touchy topic, but I hope we can lower the tension in here. People are raising some good points. I just hope everyone will take a second before they hit "submit" to make sure their post will not be misconstrued.

__________________
I'd rather be climbing...

I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time...

Infinite Hybrid

Intersting ideas posted so far. I just want to add the last of my 2 cents.

-Outside of the rappers and thugs, what other black celebrities do we have? Not too many that get the public eye and attention. Look on the other side of the fence, white America (I hate the term, but I can't think of another phrase) has a wide varitey of individuals from different to emulate. All blacks have to look up to is these pain in the ass rappers [Yes, I do realize I'm speaking pretty general and there are expections and I'm aware of that, this is just for discussion purposes]

-Still, like I said before, I really don't like think that (mainstream) hip hop is a cause of Black America's problems. Fine, they have this hip hop playing for the kids to listen to, what about the parents who should be montioring what their children are doing,who they are listening to, who they are EMULATING, because well frankly, that's their job. Shouldn't these parents be trying to show their children proper morals and values.

And just for the record, I personally have no interest in hip hop as a whole really. Always been a punk/metal/alterative person myself.

__________________
paramedics fell into the wound
like a rehired scab at a barehanded plant
an anesthetic penance beneath
the hail of contraband

bad30th

phoenix1002,

You have basically said exactly what I have been thinking, only you put it into better, less offensive words..... props to you

billege

"Did I misinterpret, or did you stereotype black youth as criminals as well?"----telekinetic


What's to stereotype? Isn't the statistic 1 in 3 black men are in jail or have been? That's reality pal, not stereotyping.

Well fuck me sideways with a stick.

I just learned a little about my flawed perceptions.
While I was looking for statistics to show that black youth are all criminals, I found the opposite. Goes to show one does learn something new everyday.
I learned I fell for the media's overreporting of black criminals.

Here's what I found,

<b>"Race studies

Statistically, race plays a role in the types of crime in which youth become involved. The OJJDP, in its reporting, chronicles how many arrests are made in each of four racial categories – white (includes Hispanic youth), black, American Indian, and Asian. The study charts arrest rates among different racial groups for specified crimes. It also compares arrest rates with population rates, and follows arrest rates over time. The December 2001 bulletin of the Juvenile Offenders and Victims National Report Series published the following statistics on crime in 1999:

White youth were arrested for 72% of the crime and made up 79% of the youth population.

Black youth were arrested for 25% of the crime and made up 16% of the youth population.

American Indian youth composed 1% of the juvenile population and were arrested for 1% of the crime.

Youth of Asian descent composed 4% of the juvenile population and were arrested for 2% of the crime.


Differences in juvenile arrest rates, 1999:

White youth were arrested in 92% of DUI cases, but only 16% of gambling cases. They were arrested for 57% of all juvenile violent crimes and 68% of all juvenile weapons violations.

Black youth were arrested in 81% of gambling cases, but only 5% of DUI cases. They were arrested for 41% of all juvenile violent crimes and 30% of all juvenile weapons violations.

American Indian youth were arrested in 3% of liquor law violation cases, but were not represented in embezzlement, gambling, or suspicion cases. They were arrested for 1% of all juvenile violent crimes and 1% of all juvenile weapons violations.

Asian American youth were arrested in 4% of runaway cases, but only 1% of drug abuse cases. They were arrested for 2% of all juvenile violent crimes and 2% of all juvenile weapons violations."</b>

The original was found here.

As for the crap that was thrown back and forth by two of our posters...
You both know better.
This is not a topic to be taken lightly, so you must remember to take some time and think before responding.

I do not appreciate your conduct on my thread. This is a very important topic to me. I've put a lot of time and effort into it, and I'll not have it become an irrelevant pile of garbage becuase you get pissy.

Do not do it again.

__________________
I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Apokx

Any program that is specifically targeted to/for blacks.


Black Stars/BET etc.

I thought segregation stopped after the 60's?
There are other programs,like the negro college fund,etc.Which isnt the same as maybe something for a specific handicap..When you start sorting by race the lines begin to blur.
But since I think racism will exist until/unless the races of the world intermix to become one.

My 1 cent.

Darkblack

Not sure if you meant me or not, I guess you did seeing as I am one of the main people on this thread. I went back and read all my posts and really cannot see where I did not conduct myself in a respectful manner. I got on the defensive a bit when personal attacks started flowing but never really got out of line in my opinion. I do apologize that I let the thread get out of hand but as you can see I tried to get it back in order. This is a very important topic for me as well if you cannot tell.

I would love to talk about this more if we can keep it civil.