Remixer

Hey TFP community,

it's for quite some time I have been wondering on that issue. After reading a bit through the forum, it looks like several of you were in the US military, or are very interested in military affairs.

My question: how come the US Navy is present in a landlocked country such as Afghanistan?

It has baffled my mind ever since I met an LCDR and an ADM here years ago for the first time, and continued to see their types all over.

Cheers

Plan9

Better question: Why is the US Coast Guard, ICE and DEA in Iraq?

...

Yeah, I saw plenty of Navy in Afghanistan. The nautical branch is more than just "boat people."

As an example, their EOD ("bomb squad") rolled out on missions with everybody, just like Air Force EOD.

The nature of the "Global War on Terrorism" means that anybody with a skill is being used.

That and every branch of the US military has some sort of pilot. Each branch is pretty diverse.

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Baraka_Guru

It's all about programmed automatic relevance as an aspect of maintaining the military industrial complex. In every major operation of the American armed forces, every arm is involved automatically as a way of policy to ensure the continued "relevancy" of the entire system. There is a reason why Americans pay more for military than every other nation combined, and it's not just about being and having the best.

*Ahem*

There are totally lakes and rivers in Afghanistan. Can't you read a map?

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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Plan9

Actually, the rainy season is pretty brutal. It washes away roads and bridges like-whoa.




Regarding your strikeout text:

That's macro, Baraka. And we've always been at war with East Asia. And the US military is hardly the best anymore, judging the meat or the missiles.

I'm talking micro. There aren't enough EOD guys. There aren't enough medics. There aren't enough people with the needed technical skills in X branch to keep up with this bullshit "war" because this war isn't what our military was trained up to handle based on 1980s doctrine. We don't need droves of mechanized artillery guys and tankers in A-stan. So the military swaps branches to get the tools it does need on the ground. That and there are too many deployments (or their used to be, we've only got like ~48k chumps in Iraq right now). The rotation schedule means the guys that have the necessary skills are going home at some point and need to be backfilled by somebody. You get a lot of interservice activity in these specialty areas. Lets say I used to drive around and find bombs with my face. My branch isn't the only one that does that. Army, Air Force and Navy all do that job.

That and Canada couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag. The only thing you've got going for you is a good sniper school and fancy rations.

...

I'll buy a beer for someone if they can find something really odd in that first picture.

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Baraka_Guru

"There aren't enough...."
"There aren't enough...."
"There aren't enough...."

Maybe you guys should beef up your military budget or something.

And I think you mean that Canada couldn't invade Iraq or Afghanistan. That's fine, we don't want to. Unlike some other nations' military spending, we tend to pay a bit closer to only what we need.

And we go well beyond sniper school. We're peacekeepers, not nation(re)builders, and we have a long history of military success but without the baggage that you get with heavy-handed approaches.

Don't hate us because we're sensible and multilateral.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Oh, I was just fucking with you, bro.

The US military is a great shambling beast operating on logic from yesteryear that needs to lose a lot of weight (figuratively and literally).

That change won't come until we decide to stop acting like Team America: World Police.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

I should address this more directly. Canada has played a rare long-standing combat role in Afghanistan in support of the mission there. Our forces have suffered 157 deaths (6 as a result of American friendly fire), which, as a percentage of the overall forces operating there, is a relatively high number.

For years, Canadian troops have been putting themselves in the line of fire in that country, when our usual mode is peacekeeping and security.

But still.

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

Considering the expenditure as a percentage of GDP, it doesn't look that bad...but the U.S. is quite high compared to developed nations in general (e.g. the G8). The expenditure as a percentage of GDP is in the top ten, and the U.S. is ranking among such nations as the oil-rich Middle East and otherwise relatively fucked-up places.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Remixer

Thanks for the replies to my question.

When I first met the mentioned LCDR and ADM, I asked them the same question out of sheer curiosity, and the ADM said immediately: "Because we're the best." I leave that debate for the USAF/USM/USArmy/USN folks to conclude.

The rotation schedules of your (US) guys is a major hindrance to effective work in the reconstruction aspect. In some fields (or all fields if the project is large enough), projects can take years to be drawn up, negotiated, published and implemented. By that time, you've dealt with 4-5 people doing the same job as they keep rotating every 6 months (1 month of which they spend getting familiar with the entire case, and 2 weeks to instruct the replacement their way around).

Of course, some people are assigned for longer periods.

Plan9

Baraka:

Yeah, I heard those stories.

Funny, I never saw a single Canadian while I was in AFG. Brits, Aussies and Romanians everywhere, though.

And this is why private contractors, especially construction and security, will have jobs 20 years from now.

Shit, the last US DoS employee to work a "high threat" post in IRQ/AFG hasn't even been born yet.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Well, there were only a few thousand deployed, and at first they were scattered around. The forces were eventually concentrated in Kandahar beginning in 2006 and have been there since.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ASU2003

I don't even know why the 'National Guard' is overseas... Aren't they supposed to be providing national defense, and undertaking big construction projects with the Army Corp of Engineers...Along with helping flood victims, tornado survivors, and protecting the borders...

If they wanted to 'expand the military' that is one branch that I think would be popular and actually very beneficial with the current unemployment level of 18-29 year olds.

Plan9

Hah, we used to call them the "International Guard."

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ChrisJericho

One thing I think about is how young people often go to college and get useless bachelor's degrees in things like english, communications, psychology etc when really they should have been planning to make a career off the government's endless "war on terror."

And by this I mean either majoring in some sort of middle eastern language like Farsi or Arabic and getting a translator job or just forgoing college, getting special operations experience in the military and then becoming a PMC and then making 6 figures a year.

I mean, am I missing something here?

Oh yeah, aside from the possibility of your head being cut off and your body being dragged through the street.

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Plan9

I totally just shot JD through my nose. Well played, young Jedi. The issue with your plan is that the "useless college degree" is actually respected in those types of jobs where just about everybody was a salad-suited Colt-carrying samurai and yet can't write a decent resume. The ability to use Microsoft Excel and schmooze with whatever client is involved is more important than knowing how to shoot and being able to grow a really righteous beard. If you really wanted to make money, you'd get the military experience and the college degree then go into the project management side of things.

This is all speculation, mind you.

According to the stats, it's more dangerous in Detroit.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

RogueGypsy

You talkin' bout the guy in the white pajamas standing by the wash? Next to the mirror on the Humvee.

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