EventHorizon

I've come to a situation where i might soon be in need of a "bug-out bag" or a bag specifically designed for the event of fecal matter impacting a fan and one needs to GTFO ASAP. this could also be imagined as a zombie apocalypse bag, but the long and the short of it is this: what backpack would you use and what would you put in it if you needed a bag that you would depend on for survival if needed at a moments notice? is MOLLE as cool/practical as people make it out to be? Where does one compromise between minimalism and mobility with carrying capacity and comfort?

currently looking at the voodoo tobago bag but i think i can find better for cheaper

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Plan9

There are several lengthy threads on this topic that you might want to use as a starting part for further discussion.

I'll add my 2 cents later.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

skizziks

there are about 4.7 million bug out bag threads at survivalistboards.com to read for more info.

any decent daypack (go to rei), filled with basic essentials, will do. basic essentials is different for each person, and is learned through experience of actually going out with a daypack and seeing what you end up using and what you don't. it's not that difficult. if you are worried about looks, then you aren't in a survival situation.

Plan9

Hey, now...

Turns out I don't want to step on a potentially great thread by sending this discussion to another board.

Since using the Search feature is such a daunting task, check out the following threads, EventHorizon:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...paredness.html
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...pocalypse.html
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...asion-etc.html
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...teotwawki.html

There are other threads out there in the recessions of TFP. A lot of good posts and a lot of humor.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Hektore

I tend to think of 'bugging out' as an extended, unsupported through-hike. Your concerns will be largely the same so that's a decent place to start; those are (potable) water, food, comfort (shelter). If there really is a significant chance of using the bag keeping some food/water on hand (in or near the bag) is a good idea. Shelter is based entirely on your location. As far as weight, the balance between usefulness/comfort/weight is one you can only figure out on your own.

As important as preparation is, practice is vital as well. Whatever you decide to shove in the bag, take it out and use it some weekend. Then you'll really know what you need.

//edit: One thing I want to add on the procurement of potable water is that I don't trust Iodine for purification. Boiling is better for eliminating organisms.

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

StanT

I'm not very big on apocalypse preparation, but I do spend one hell of a lot of time carrying a backpack.

I'd suggest a cheap duffel bag for storage and a backpack that you actually like and use. Backpacks come in a variety of constructions, with waistband, shoulder straps, access, and attachment points that all work well for some folks and are horrible for others. You really need to find something you like, toss 20+ pounds in it and carry it around the store for 30 min or so. A good pack will stand up to years of abuse, but you won't use it if it hurts. It's worth the effort and money to buy one based on fit, rather than anything else.

Slims

What type of situation are you worried about?

The different possibilities that come to my mind would necessitate completely different packing lists.

i.e. a bag for you to run in a functional society would be completely different from a bag to survive a local natural disaster is different from a bag to get you through the initial days of a true collapse.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

EventHorizon

thanks for the links plan9, i tried your hallowed Search tool. the first things that caught my easily gained attention up upon entering "backpack" were Take 3, gaza drama, and something about a battle bra but after a bit i found it for myself, there just wasn't much point in saying "found it guys!" but i appreciate the links all the same.

Hektore, that crypto stuff sounds like a nasty bug to catch, too bad iodine wont work on it. i like the boiling idea but it seems like quite a hassle just to get some clean water, but i guess tediously obtained water is better than diseased water. i couldn't find a definitive "yes" to whether or not UV kills the crypto cysts. if not, i'm curious as how i should filter it out. most of the time my water will be in a camelback (for longer than the 240 minutes stated in the posted abstract). so maybe the trick will be to wait 6 hours after iodine application to make sure that my water doesn't have any life in it. how hard would it be to Mcgyver myself a still for pure H2O?

i ended up getting this:BDS Tactical Three Day Pack

i also invested in a boyscout handbook just to start getting smart instead of having a bunch of cool stuff and having no idea how to use it. the SAS handbook seems to have alot of useful information too, but i only have it on pdf. any suggestions for cheap yet invaluable literature i can find on amazon or something like that?

---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------

i'm not worried about survival in the event of societal collapse (for now). my more immediate needs fall under the "if people come looking for me, i'm capable and willing to leave and survive for at least a month"needs

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Hektore

I just find it amusing that one of the most commonly sold water purification tools is actually rather ineffective against two of the most common water-borne illnesses. While yes, boiling does seem like a pain, try wilderness living with one of those two bugs.

I think I'd make some room for one of these if I might seriously find myself in that situation. As it stands right now, I have adequate alternatives and can't justify the expense.

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

ASU2003

It all depends on the type of environment you are surviving in. Canada woods is different from Arizona desert. Changing identities and moving to New Mexico would be different from sailing away on a boat and living off it. Are you concerned with weapons for hunting or protection? How far do you want to travel? I wasn't able to get 2 miles with what I packed on one of my Canadian backcountry trips and had to stop by a post office and mail 8 lbs of stuff back. What season are you going in?

And if you can't setup a base camp, or are worried about people seeing a fire, then it changes as well.

And I would use a solar still or UV light for water purification. I take one gallon jugs of water with me normally.

If I were shopping for a backpack, I would want a separate waterproof compartment for my tent and poles to get stuffed into. Ex Officio clothes http://www.exofficio.com/, 1 gal water, some food, sleeping bag, maps, knife, and a survival book. I would also consider taking my mountain bike to travel faster and further.

Shadowex3

On the topic of water UV disenfection IS effective on cryptosporidiosis, and pretty much anything else with DNA, but you'd still need to filter it for anything else you don't want to drink. If you plan on having plenty of free time and being somewhere sunny you can just use the SODIS method, otherwise stick with a filter of some kind and a small UVC light like thinkgeek sells and use it after you filter the water.

Back to bags... I used to think molle was a poser thing but recently I've found it to just be genuinely useful. Given how comfortable it is for even a small-framed guy like me to wear and carry with a fair amount of Heavy Shit in it I'd go for pretty much any bag designed like this... well padded and WIDE shoulder straps with an adjustable chest strap and a padded waist strap, and preferrably at least a flat panel and good back padding to keep things from bunching or jabbing me in odd ways. I'd also go for a flat color, preferrably black, instead of any kind of camo pattern. It shows less dirt and stands out less overall, unless you really pay attention my black BFM 500 looks just like a normal but slightly pocketty backpack.

Loading it is thankfully a lot simpler. Bare minimum I consider a bug out back to be five days of fresh underwear and socks, 15,000 calories, materials for filtering water, a toothbrush, at least one roll of ducttape, and a medical kit fitting nutnfancy's level 1 trauma kit for at least two people.

Explaining all of that in reverse order: The last one I went with as my standard just because it's easily understandable for most people and is if nothing else a good baseline for the average person's "too bad for bandaids" kit. I don't think I need to explain the usefulness of duct tape or a toothbrush (even just brushing with water or something), and filtering for potable water is self explanatory and especially useful if you go with a camelback for storing it. I say 15K calories since that's 3k calories per day, a good minimum for an active adult male in a situation like this, and people have their own preferences of how to accomplish that. Personally I like MREs, if all you do is grab drinks, entrees, and sides you can package them yourself very inexpensively off of ebay but whole ones are obviously useable as well if you repackage them to remove unnecessary bulk. I don't mention clothes because even here in florida I've worn the same pair of pants and shirt for two weeks but pretty much anywhere you're going to want to at least keep clean socks and underwear since some nasty stuff can go on down there when you're schlepping it.

Like ASU said though it really depends on your situation and your plans. My pack is tailored for deciding to move to somewhere else in mostly urban/suburban areas after a hurricane. In my case it's a comfortable margin of what I'd need to walk or bicycle somewhere with more functional infrastructure. If you plan to seriously dissapear for a month outside of an urban or suburban area rather than just going off-grid and still having access to supplies purchased by cash, especially without some kind of base, you're going to need a lot more self-sufficiency.

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Fremen

Couple of questions...
Do they make a Kevlar rucksack/bug-out bag?

In the scenarios listed above and in the other threads, would it be better to use foot power, pedal power or actual horse power to get around?

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StanT

Kevlar isn't a very good fabric for a pack. Spectra cloth or Dyneema is what rock climbers use.It's a difficult fabric to work with and will double the cost of a pack. My pack is made from a Spectra ripstop fabric. making it a bit of a compromise in weight, strength, and cost.

EventHorizon

Either summer/fall in mountainous Colorado.
for protection i have a 4 in push dagger that has a belt clip on it. doesn't do much against large wildlife. i don't necessarily want a rifle because of the weight factor of the weapon and the fact that ammo would be taking up precious space in my pack that i could be using for other things like food and i don't know jack about pistols
thats not a problem as soon as i'm 20 miles away, which should be a day's walk away.

i have all of that other stuff taken care of, but i'm concerned that a bike would limit me to roads and trails and ultimately just weigh me down when i'm walking and trying to find a nice secluded "leave me the fuck alone" space.

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Hektore

Check an almanac for the coldest day on record, bring enough clothes to live through that. If you're not going to carry a firearm, I would suggest mace/pepper spray for an alternative...or something loud like an air-horn (even a pack of ladyfinger firecrackers).

Don't eliminate a bike as a tool, pick up an old junker at a yard sale so you won't be inclined to worry about abandoning it.

If we're talking about wilderness living a plant identification book is probably a good idea, along with a map of the area your headed to. I know in Pa that DCNR provides maps of the state forests which, imo, are better than a straight topo map, since they usually provide the same information with trails, roads and points of interest (in other words, places people are likely to be).

A word to the wise about plant ID, buying the book, putting it in your pack and forgetting about it is the wrong thing to do. Practice, practice, practice. The idea is to get to the point you don't need the book, because if you lose it and never opened it, then you're SOL.

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Shadowex3

You're going to need something a hell of a lot more self-sufficient than what I suggested then. Start thinking about hunting/fishing/foraging and bring a lot more clothing and some form of sturdy shelter (a good tent). Also you probably don't need to be told this but forget about cotton. In the summer it'll be sweaty and stifling and in the fall it'll be clammy and chilling. Are you really sure you can survive for a month on whatever you can fit in a pack that size? My BFM 500's a little larger capacity than that thing and I'm comfortable saying unless I was going to be hunting and fishing in a very well stocked area that I would not be surviving for a month in the wilderness on it, and I live in a climate where the majority of the year shelter and warmth are non-issues.


The handle design on that isn't even going to be useful for a tool for any length of time. Start thinking about hunting or survival knives, something big with a fixed blade and preferrably a serrated section that you'd feel comfortable hacking down saplings with. A small hatchet wouldn't hurt either and doesn't add that much weight, it'll make dealing with wood a whole lot easier and a good one will double as a hammer.

As for weapons... someone here may have a better idea but a month away from clean storage in a place with unfriendly animals (and people) says .44 revolver to me.

That's a good point, especially since the kind of mtb that will actually take this kind of terrain with grace tends to be in the thousand dollar minimum range.

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Fire

consider your fitness and preparedness level first- if you are talking about getting a boy scout manual as your starting point, and that is where you are now, then I would respectfully submit that you have no business trying a month in the colorado mountains....that kind of shit gets you dead, without the skills and experience to carry them over- and who and why, generally, do you feel the need to flee from- what will your job do about this, and what of your other social obligations- If you fear being pursued by people, can you do something proactive about it- My wife had to bug out for real shortly before she an I got together, and let me tell you, a fugitive life is no fun.... think about it and act as you think you can to best preserve yourself... if you are doing this to be ready for an eventuality, I applaud your proactive attitude to preparedness, but if its an immediate concern, may I suggest that a motel 6 a few towns over could serve you better...

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Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

dlish

fire has a point. but you could also scope out places before hand and stockpile food/water there in the event that you need to split. mark the location witha gps ( not your iphone!). dont forget to get rid of all your phones and anything that can track you.

you will also need to keep watching enemy of the state with will smith every week to keep you alert.

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- Filthy

EventHorizon

i think i'll need to spend the next two months of weekends on my lonesome on "camping" trips with decreasing amounts of prepacked food just to get practice under my belt and find out what works and what doesn't. that won't necessarily mean i'm ready, but it'll definitely be learning experience. i appreciate all the advice guys, now i guess its just up to me to put in the work and learn. Fire i'm totally with you that a boyscout handbook is pretty amateur, but aside from asking a character from a Gary Paulsen book, i don't know where else to go for advice or what books to read concerning long-term mountain survival

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Plan9

+1 for the Hatchet reference

If you're looking for manuals, the United States Army has field manuals on every topic you could imagine.

Check out GlobalSecurity.org for the .PDFs or just hit up the old Google machine for "US Army FM Survival."

I have a hard copy of said FM and it is over an inch thick. Covers water, shelter, fire, knots, plants, animals, etc.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

StanT

The Rockies are my backyard, literally. My home is at 8600' and I live 3-4 miles as the crow flies from the continental divide.

I think you'd be better served by by starting from a civilian/backpacking perspective and then moving to pseudo military, survival one. Most REI have classes, seminars, etc that will get you started.

Spring and fall in the rockies can be pretty brutal. You'll want shelter that can support 2' of snow that may fall as early as Labor Day. I've been cold in my zero degree rated bag. Living off the land legally means fishing or backpacking during hunting season. Either will be very time consuming. MREs are fine for a weekend; but they get damn heavy past a few days worth. Freeze dried has a better weight to calorie ratio. Crypto and giardia are the water contaminents and are easily filterable. Virus' are not an issue here. Afternoon rain with lightning is the norm and is potentially dangerous if you aren't prepared for it.

For what it's worth, Quantico, VA has one of the busiest REIs in the nation. It seems SEALs and Green Beret go shopping there after they get out of class and before they deploy.

EventHorizon

just in case anyone else wants to know, its FM 21-76. also, is it strange that i had a Tyler Durden flashback when i read the bottom of page 18?

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Walt

What's with everyone thinking that getting all Jeremiah Johnson is a valid option? If youre a city dude, plan to make do in the city. 30 days after a "bug out" scenario, the woods are going to look like a REI yard sale.

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Calmer than you are...

ASU2003

It depends who is looking for you and what city you end up in. I know I would do better in the woods than in a homeless shelter or some motel under a different name.

For outdoor tips, I would also recommend watching Survivorman and taking some first aid classes at the Red Cross. Hell, maybe you should just volunteer with them and let them ship you off to some foreign country for a while.

AquaFox

I somehow must be too tired to be online... i read the original post as:

"I've come to a situation where i might soon be in need of a...bag specifically designed for...fecal matter.... what backpack would...you put in it..?"



Something that seals well to keep the smell in... as well as holding loads of freeze dried foods and stuff to boil water as well as non perishables if you got the ability to add extra weight... fire starters and basic tools as well.

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...AquaFox...

EventHorizon

i'll be sure to keep ziplock baggies and febreeze handy.

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Does Marcellus Wallace have the appearance of a female canine? Then for what reason did you attempt to copulate with him as if he were a female canine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckguy Pretty simple really, do your own thing as long as it does not fuck with anyone's enjoyment of life.

Fire

learning is the way to go- definitely try several weekend campouts, and then go from there- it will go a long way toward helping you figure out what solution is best for you- some tips for the whole thing, I would recommend reading and owning a copy of cody lundin's books 98.6 (the art of keeping your ass alive) and when all hell breaks loose- they are simply the best books out there for bad situations, and cover bugging out, and disaster prepping and survival (when all hell breaks loose) and the wilderness from a survival standpoint (98.6) - mind you, its from a survival standpoint, and geared toward getting you out alive, not sticking around for a month, but it is filled with skills for any wilderness expedition -

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Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens