Civility in Chaos - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ASU2003 · 03-15-2011, 01:07 PM

With all the natural disasters happening around the world, what is the difference between cultures that leads to people waiting in line at grocery stores to buy 10 items in Japan, versus the looting in New Orleans? Why does it seem like New Zealand will clear the rubble and rebuild much faster than Haiti?

I know there has been a lot of 'disaster' preparation in this country with people stockpiling food, guns, and ammo because they don't feel the government will be there to help them. I'm not sure that we wouldn't descend into chaos in this country once the food ran out and people's kids were starving... Yet, it doesn't seem to be happening in Japan. Are they still in shock or too worried about find other loved ones to cause trouble? Or do they have better morals than to steal food if they are hungry? Is a trust in their government and the government being able to organize a plan without dissent part of it? Or is it a politically incorrect reason like a difference in classes, races, education level, or poverty?

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-16-2011, 12:09 AM

I view Japan's culture as pretty strong on personal discipline. Even here in the Minnesota-nice Twin Cities I'm not sure chaos wouldn't arise in short order.
New Zealand has its house very well in order, & Haiti doesn't. If those are politically incorrect reasons you named, I join you.
Stockpiling for the end of civilization is something I don't understand at all.

Craven Morehead · 03-16-2011, 03:24 AM

I was in Tokyo 5 years ago and was extremely impressed with the Japanese culture. Exceedingly polite and helpful. Gracious and very civilized. Their civil obedience in the face of chaos does not surprise me at all. And it makes it all the more heartbreaking to see what these people are dealing with.

LordEden · 03-16-2011, 04:37 AM

I read a news artice on this the other day, that there was no looting during this time of crisis. I think it's less a politically incorrect answer (tho it is still there) and more a personal respect issue. The culture of japan actually has respect for personal property and won't loot "because the chance is there".

I just wish other places were that respectful of others (ie USA) when civilization takes a stumble. I know if that happened to the east coast instead of Japan, you better bet your ass I'll be boarding up my house and making sure I'm armed at all times.

snowy · 03-16-2011, 07:20 AM

Part of it is a difference in culture. Japan has a much more communal culture, where personal desires are suppressed for the good of the group. What good would looting do there? It would just hurt the group.

genuinegirly · 03-16-2011, 08:20 AM

I was just reading about this elsewhere, so glad you started a thread, ASU!
Honestly didn't think it was possible for an entire country of people to respond in such an organized manner to this scale of destruction. Perhaps they are in shock. Maybe when they lost their army after WWII the people became on the whole far more pacifistic than we had realized. I haven't known very many Japanese people in my life, and have never visited the country. But those few I know are exceptionally polite, hard-working, friendly people. I could never picture one of them looting. Perhaps those I've known are in fact the same as everyone else in the country.

Whatever their secret, I hope they're willing to share it with the world. It seems like with this mentality cleanup and rebuilding will be able to happen much more quickly.

Strange Famous · 03-16-2011, 10:07 AM

I pretty much agree - its a cultural thing to a degree, and also to do with the degree of the response from the state. In New Orleans people felt abandoned by the state. In Japan I think people feel the state is doing its best.

Lindy · 03-16-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowy

Part of it is a difference in culture. Japan has a much more communal culture, where personal desires are suppressed for the good of the group. What good would looting do there? It would just hurt the group.

Japanese culture is not only communal, it is also homogeneous. Say what you want about the virtues of diversity, (a sacred cow in our culture) a homogeneous culture that everyone feels part of has advantages as well.

Lindy

KirStang · 03-16-2011, 02:05 PM

I wrote a paper regarding (partially) collectivism and individualism. I think that may account for a part of the civil behavior.

If anyone's interested:

Quote:

Individualism stands for a society in which the ties between individuals are loose. Everyone is expected to look after him or herself, or only their immediate family. Relationships and group memberships are impermanent and nonintensive. In individualistic societies, the smallest unit of society tends to be the individual.# Persons from individualistic societies are considered discrete, autonomous, self-sufficient, universal entities.# Due to the emphasis on individualism, values such as self-reliance, hedonism, competition, and emotional detachment tend to dominate.# In addition, individualists tend to value curiosity, open mindedness, creativity, variety, and self-sufficiency.# Consequently, society is an aggregation of atomistic individuals who seek to maximize their own goals.# Individualists interact with others utilizing mutually agreed-upon principles, such as equality, equity, non-interference, and detachment. Thus, laws and regulations in individualistic societies are especially important since they are needed to regulate interactions.

In addition, individualistic behavior is generally more prevalent in industrial societies. In these industrialized cultures, there tend to be less stable, long term relationships with individuals outside the immediate family. Through industrialization, there is increased division of labor and less interdependence, resulting in greater impersonality between people. In an impersonal society, confrontations and open discussions of conflict are considered salutary.# Indeed, in individualist cultures, the belief is that the clash of ideals will result in greater truth. Thus conflict is the norm in an individualistic society.#
In the workplace, individualism colors the relationship between employer and employee. Employees are expected to act rationally according to their own interests and thus work is organized to align to the employee’s interests.# Through aligning interests, two individual entities are able to come to a mutually agreeable and productive arrangement. When it comes to business transactions, the task and goal are of the utmost importance. Business relationships which are otherwise a priority are placed below other goals of profit or meeting established objectives.

Low context communication is also characteristic of an individualist society.# Low context communication requires explicit communication of information and generally follows four maxims. First, individuals should not give more or less information than necessary.# Second, that people should state only which is sufficient to support the statement.# Third, statements should be relevant to the context of the conversation.# Finally, communicators should avoid obscure expressions, or excessive verbosity.# Thus, communications in individualist societies are generally explicit, with nothing left to inference.

Characteristics of Collectivism

In contrast to individualism, collectivism is characterized by an emphasis of the group above the individual. Collectivism is reflected in a social pattern of closely linked individuals who define themselves as interdependent.# These interdependent individuals integrate into strong cohesive groups which offer protection in exchange for loyalty.# In a collectivist society, groups define individuals and are a major source of the collectivist’s identity. Collectivists tend to place emphasis on duties rather than rights# and place great emphasis on harmony.# In most collectivist cultures, direct confrontation is considered rude and undesirable. The word no is seldom used because “no” is a confrontation.# Thus, collectivists are expected to show greater conformity and accommodation.#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...xM/edit?hl=en#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ek/edit?hl=en#

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...hc/edit?hl=en#

/Mental masturbation

03-15-2011, 01:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	Civility in Chaos With all the natural disasters happening around the world, what is the difference between cultures that leads to people waiting in line at grocery stores to buy 10 items in Japan, versus the looting in New Orleans? Why does it seem like New Zealand will clear the rubble and rebuild much faster than Haiti? I know there has been a lot of 'disaster' preparation in this country with people stockpiling food, guns, and ammo because they don't feel the government will be there to help them. I'm not sure that we wouldn't descend into chaos in this country once the food ran out and people's kids were starving... Yet, it doesn't seem to be happening in Japan. Are they still in shock or too worried about find other loved ones to cause trouble? Or do they have better morals than to steal food if they are hungry? Is a trust in their government and the government being able to organize a plan without dissent part of it? Or is it a politically incorrect reason like a difference in classes, races, education level, or poverty? Last edited by ASU2003; 03-15-2011 at 01:10 PM..

03-16-2011, 12:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I view Japan's culture as pretty strong on personal discipline. Even here in the Minnesota-nice Twin Cities I'm not sure chaos wouldn't arise in short order. New Zealand has its house very well in order, & Haiti doesn't. If those are politically incorrect reasons you named, I join you. Stockpiling for the end of civilization is something I don't understand at all. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-16-2011, 07:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Part of it is a difference in culture. Japan has a much more communal culture, where personal desires are suppressed for the good of the group. What good would looting do there? It would just hurt the group. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-16-2011, 08:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I was just reading about this elsewhere, so glad you started a thread, ASU! Honestly didn't think it was possible for an entire country of people to respond in such an organized manner to this scale of destruction. Perhaps they are in shock. Maybe when they lost their army after WWII the people became on the whole far more pacifistic than we had realized. I haven't known very many Japanese people in my life, and have never visited the country. But those few I know are exceptionally polite, hard-working, friendly people. I could never picture one of them looting. Perhaps those I've known are in fact the same as everyone else in the country. Whatever their secret, I hope they're willing to share it with the world. It seems like with this mentality cleanup and rebuilding will be able to happen much more quickly. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

03-16-2011, 10:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I pretty much agree - its a cultural thing to a degree, and also to do with the degree of the response from the state. In New Orleans people felt abandoned by the state. In Japan I think people feel the state is doing its best. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-16-2011, 03:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	I was in Tokyo 5 years ago and was extremely impressed with the Japanese culture. Exceedingly polite and helpful. Gracious and very civilized. Their civil obedience in the face of chaos does not surprise me at all. And it makes it all the more heartbreaking to see what these people are dealing with.