Cynthetiq

Some of you saw this other thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...-20-years.html and lamented that there should have been more literary types. Well, here's a new list and it are a lot more literary types.

What do you think that the Marlboro Man is #1? Lancelot nor Merlin don't make the cut?

I think this list is much more fascinating and since it crosses so many boundaries it's not as limiting as the previous list from Entertainment Weekly. I'm still digesting this list, but figured I'd ring the bell to start the discussion.

Read about how they came up with "importance"
http://www.101influential.com/Importance.htm


The 101:
1. The Marlboro Man
2. Big Brother
3. King Arthur
4. Santa Claus (St. Nick)
5. Hamlet
6. Dr. Frankenstein's Monster
7. Siegfried
8. Sherlock Holmes
9. Romeo and Juliet
10. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
11. Uncle Tom
12. Robin Hood
13. Jim Crow
14. Oedipus
15. Lady Chatterley
16. Ebenezer Scrooge
17. Don Quixote
18. Mickey Mouse
19. The American Cowboy
20. Prince Charming
21. Smokey Bear
22. Robinson Crusoe
23. Apollo and Dionysus
24. Odysseus
25. Nora Helmer
26. Cinderella
27. Shylock
28. Rosie the Riveter
29. Midas
30. Hester Prynne
31. The Little Engine That Could
32. Archie Bunker
33. Dracula
34. Alice in Wonderland
35. Citizen Kane
36. Faust
37. Figaro
38. Godzilla
39. Mary Richards
40. Don Juan
41. Bambi
42. William Tell
43. Barbie
44. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
45. Venus and Cupid
46. Prometheus
47. Pandora
48. G. I. Joe
49. Tarzan
50. Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock
51. James Bond
52. Hansel and Gretel
53. Captain Ahab
54. Rick Blaine
55. Ugly Duckling
56. Loch Ness Monster (Nessie)
57. Atticus Finch
58. Valentine (St)
59. Helen (of Troy)
60. Batman
61. Uncle Sam
62. Nancy Drew
63. J. R. Ewing
64. Superman
65. Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn
66. HAL 9000 (2001: A Space Odyssey)
67. Kermit the Frog
68. Sam Spade
69. Pied Piper
70. Peter Pan
71. Hiawatha
72. Othello
73. The Little Tramp
74. King Kong
75. Norman Bates
76. Hercules (Heracles)
77. Dick Tracy
78. Joe Camel
79. Cat in the Hat
80. Icarus
81. Mammy
82. Sindbad
83. Amos 'n' Andy
84. Buck Rogers (incl. Flash Gordon)
85. Luke Skywalker
86. Perry Mason
87. Dr. Strangelove
88. Pygmalion
89. Madame Butterfly
90. Hans Beckert
91. Dorothy Gale (Wizard of Oz)
92. Wandering Jew
93. Jay Gatsby
94. Buck (Jack London - Call of the Wild)
95. Willy Loman
96. Betty Boop
97. Ivanhoe
98. Elmer Gantry
99. Lilith
100. John Doe
101. Paul Bunyan

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Charlatan

Before I clicked, the first name that popped into my head was Ebenezer Scrooge. Weird.

I'd have to say that I think the Marlborough Man is *way* too high on that list.

It's an odd list and definitely skews to an older and American crowd.

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Baraka_Guru

Another subjective list. Fun...but subjective.....

(e.g. "What? No Mario?!" "Where's Max Headroom?")

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

uncle phil

the great gatsby...

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We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
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you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

jewels

#93, Unc.

I never got the whole Marlboro Man thing. I didn't start smoking in order to look like a cowboy.

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Mark Twain

Baraka_Guru

No Humbert Humbert?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

Arthur Fonzerelli
Luke Skywalker
Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz

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Charlatan

Dorothy is number 91
Luke is 85

I'd like to add George Bailey from It's a Wonderful Life and, another James Stewart character, Jefferson Smith from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Lindy

Charlatan, you're making it more so.
Well, not without Lolita somewhere higher on the list. Absent Lolita, no one would ever have heard of Humbert Humbert.

Lindy

zenda

From an English perspective, I am wondering at the absence of The Clint Eastwood Rowdy Yates/Spaghetti man with no name character. I see him as a powerful condensation of 'the action antihero' archetype. But that's through my English eyes. How do others see him?

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ZENDA

Charlatan

I think he falls under #19, the American Cowboy. That said, Eastwood's Man With No Name, is a particular flavour of that Icon.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

flat5

Why Dick Tracy, Betty Boop, and Mickey Mouse but no Mandrake, Beetle Bailey, Dagwood, Popeye, or any or the Peanuts gang, etc?

Strange Famous

If you can say Lilith "never existed" then why not say Eve never did, or Cain, or Moses?

And King Arthur is almost certainly based on a real Welsh chieftain.

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

Hugh Person would be a better choice imo, if you wanted someone from Nabokov books.

For me, in literary terms I would say leaving out Holden Caulfield and Ivan Karamazov is worse.

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for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
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The Gospel of Thomas

Cynthetiq

How has Holden Caulfield had an influence on any culture American or English?

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Craven Morehead

Ronald McDonald?

Fremen

I'd think Spider-Man would be up there with Batman and Superman.

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Strange Famous

By being the archetypal adolescent.

Helen of Troy was also a real person.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

GreyWolf

Why did I not make this list?

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Fremen

Add the Muppets up there, too. They influenced a couple of generations.

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Baraka_Guru

Isn't this merely speculation/theoretical? Troy was a real city, but there are many mythical aspects to it.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ngdawg

A few on the list, while fictionalized, were based on real characters:
Dracula=Vlad the Impaler
Rosie the Riveter(the Illustration and propaganda) was derived from a photo of a woman (name escapes me but she recently passed away) working in a factory during WW2.
Oh, another one, Norman Bates was based on serial killer and female flesh wearer Ed Gein, who went on his bizarre murderous adventure after the death of his mother.
Orson Welles based his Citizen Kane on William Randolph Hearst. Supposedly, Hearst was not pleased.

Probably more of these characters were inspired by real people one way or another, just not so blatantly or famously.

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StanT

Helen was the daughter of Zeus, by most sources.

Cynthetiq

dont' get him started... he'll wind up going to Mount Olympus just to prove us all wrong just like he did in World of Warcraft.

There's probably some reality in many fictionalized characters, but they are still fictionalized characters. Unless you're talking about historical fiction where you can make shit up about the doings of real people. You know, movies seem to do it all the time and people take that shit as fact.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Strange Famous

There is actually pretty good evidence of a real Helen.

In the same way that Arthur was most likely a Celtic prince rather than the "once and future king", the real Helen was not all the things that the myth made out, but the myth is most likely based on a real Spartan princess.

_

I think this is different to for example the connection between Vlad Tepes. As I understand, Vlad was seen as a Christian hero in his time by his allies, and the main reason for the connection is that Bram Stoker thought the title "Dracula" sounded spooky.

This is different to real people who become the basis of myth. Dracula is a deliberate fiction with a connection to a historical figure. King Arthur was a real warrior prince about whom stories became built up into legends.

and who knows.... in Britain's hour of need, perhaps Arthur really will return...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Fremen

He'd have to get in line behind Parliament, wouldn't he?

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Strange Famous

I guess when he comes back things probably would have got beyond parliaments control...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

kutulu

No Jesus?

Baraka_Guru

Now we're onto something. This is a kind of inverse of Helen of Troy.

The Greek myth is likely based on an archetype. The Christian myth is arguably based on a real person.

There is no evidence of the existence of Helen. There is at least a set of historical and religious writings and other archaeological evidence of Jesus.

The historicity of Helen is theoretical/speculative. The historicity of Jesus is debatable.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Charlatan

While there may have been a guy that fit the description of Jesus, I find it hard to believe that the supernatural acts attributed to him are not a fiction.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Lindy

Along this line, one could speculate that Arthur did indeed return in Britain's hour of need... not as King, but in 1940 as Winston Churchill...

Lindy