noodle

But that's the thing. I agree with both of you. You're like my little Jiminy Crickets.
It's actually quite amusing. Especially with I agree with both of you in the same thread and you pull thoughts out of my head before I can post them. It's creepy.

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zenda

To not appear an idiot, and to not make people mad.

Yup.

In some threads, I don't want to appear an idiot, nor clever, nor funny etc. I want to get a Message Across. Those threads typically involve problem solving on serious matters, therefore I don't want them to be 'about me' whatsoever, "Me Too"s are minimized and I take measures to avoid, posturing or platforming, since that would hamper my attempts to wrap my mind and feelings into what's going on in the OP's world. All else is distraction, and, so help me, I am full of distraction, and I do what I can at such times to hold it back.

I also seek to avoid making people mad. If I have an opinion I believe they will not like, then I will state it, however seek to deliver it in ways which offer them more responses than just 'getting mad.' If I don't like what someone's doing, I'm not interested in their feeling a slap but I am interested in offering them my judgement and reasoning in such a way that it becomes as compelling as their own when next they've got the opportunity to do the behaviour in question. I'm at a painful watershed, sometimes, for to hold back too much can be as limiting as holding back too little. I DO believe that transforms of 'Whup Upside the Head' can be crucial. Short Sharp Shock ... to Interrupt the Pattern of their complacency in their habit, and to make Uber Strong 'No Not That! Ever! Ring like the Bells of Notre Dame through the soul of the listener. But HOW to make that message come across as the Spirit of Urgency and Warning rather than of simple Wrath? Darn difficult, I find.

Expression of full on anger in posts? If someone's own harmony depends on sabotaging the harmony of others, and if they seem content in that behaviour, and if they show little or no balancing characteristics, those people are at risk of failing my 'citizenship of the Human Race' test. When I look at them, I mentally generalize the stories and faces of numerous victims of them and their kind, and for them, my cup of human kindness becomes empty. It is open season and there is no need to hold back for I am in a mood of assisting damage-limitation for the victims rather than redemption of the perp. Ah .. even there, I do hold back. I hold back glee and delight. For when I flood with ecstasy in the vanquishing of the Enemy who is a Very Very Bad Evil *&^%$*, my adult training in the arts of "Whoa there, Nemesis, things are NOT just Black and White" declare crisis of personal Ethic, and my memories of the more recent and sophisticated action heroes' wise statement "If I terminated this enemy, it would make me as Bad as Him," serve to hold me back in ways about which I am quite relieved. My young childhood training was that I was either TOTALLY 'held back' and a wimp OR an out of control psycho. A strong question in my development has been "When and to what extent does my holding back constitute a development beyond impulse, and when and to what extent is holding back merely burying that impulse?"


In other threads like 'What's your Oddest visit to surgery', where it's about us giving our own anecdotes, there's only my own sensitivity at stake, and I can kick back and have a good time.

Other threads I ... I Hold Back to the extent of not posting at all. For example, 'Would you suck your own dick' thread. Heavens to Betsy! I could not share at length, details of my construction of a pulley system made of silk scarf .... circling my neck, then behind my knees and back around my neck four times ... one end in my teeth and the other gently pulled to winch my head toward my groin in a vain attempt to suck my own penis in my early teens. Nor details of the screaming agony as I ricked my spine but had to maintain silence for fear my parents would have rushed into my bedroom and caught me, stuck, writhing on the bed, Lewdini-like, trussed and nekkid. Y'see, gentle, tilted reader, I am shy and couldn't share that any more than I could share some of my vanilla Disney Tinkerbell images in the 'Erotic pictures which make you go wow' thread. I'd judge myself as being a bit childish and stunted, and also as being disrespectful to the spirit of the thread, which includes a strong theme of sexuality within the Eros, whereas Tinkerbell is more about hold-hand crushes accompanied by fantasies of flying around the countryside and having picnics under trees.


Re reading what I've written, I can draw a kind of conclusion: Holding back while expressing feels like driving with one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake, which calses waste of petrol, overheating, wear on brake shoes. Holding back, I take damage. My healthy outcome would be to NOT hold back ... but to develop my attitudes and their expressions in such a way that my NOT holding back would generate more stuff I can accept than stuff I wish I'd never said.

All the best

__________________
ZENDA

The_Jazz

I rarely hold back. Which explains a lot, actually.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Ourcrazymodern?

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Charlatan

Dude, politeness only goes so far before you have to say, fuck it and throw civility out the window. So people just need The Jazz treatment.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

The_Jazz

I love how I'm the Minoso line of behavior around here. Sort of like Plan9 is to intelligence.

"You must this polite and this smart to post at TFP."

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

DaveOrion

You're an admin which explains even more.

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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

MSD

If I didn't hole back, I would probably have gotten myself banned a while ago. I don't go into Politics much anymore and more often than not I just roll my eyes and close the tab in Paranoia rather than arguing.

The_Jazz

C'mon Dave. If you're going to call me an asshole at least have the balls to actually call me one.

Actually, I'm on staff because I don't hold back. And I've been promoted to where I am because of that. I state my opinion, listen to the opposition and then adjust or dig my heels in as appropriate. And I'm very unafraid to be a lightening rod. Lord knows that this place needs stormy weather now and again. Clears out the dust.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

snowy

Jazz, you're an asshole, but it's okay. We need an asshole around here because some of us are too afraid to be assholes, even when it's called for. And that's why I love you. You're my Asshole-on-Call.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

levite

Well, since you said that, I've gone and started posting in philosophy. But if anyone bitches, it's your fault, mate.

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Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Plan9

Challenge accepted.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Aw shit, Jazz. Does this mean I'm the good cop to your bad cop?

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Charlatan

Now I have the image of Jazz's ass in the shape of a phone... Speak clearly into the asshole.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Plan9

...for a limited time only...

Ahem.



MEANWHILE:

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Cynthetiq

I used to be that guy. Not so much anymore, but I don't hold back if there is no reason to hold back. Meaning, know your audience that you are speaking too... even then, sometimes someone else reads something meant not for them and it causes more issues.

But for the most part, I do monitor what I say here more than I used to. Mostly because I don't have time to explain myself better in future posts for clarity. I'd like to, but lately I just haven't had the time.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dlish

Plan 9 i think you forgot something

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

The_Jazz

I love how the guy that I was actually talking to on that computer is the one that drew the dick in my hand. Must be wishful thinking.

Cyn, you and I have had this conversation more than once. Beside being an asshole, I'm a tool. In both senses of the word.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

bagatelle

There are only two senses of the word tool?

__________________

Charlatan

Tool = buffoon, fool, idiot
Tool = a useful object that help you execute a task
Tool = cock, johnson, penis

Jazz is versatile.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

WhoaitsZ

Same here. idk how many time I have spent 20-30 minutes editing a post, get frustrated and just hit Back.

Fremen

Whoa, talk about a blast from the past.
Good to see you, Z. I thought you got banned.

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Google

kramus

very versatile. To whit:

Tool = a weapon, like a sword
Tool = scribe or work a surface of something such as leather boots or stone in a decorative pattern with tools
Tool = drive with a smooth and skillful ease - as in tooling around town in your Jaguar
Tool = a person used by another person without being aware of being used - you could also call such a person a catspaw

__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

WhoaitsZ

shhhhhhh it was a UFO

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

tool - also one of the best bands in history.

audioguru

I've had somewhat of a problem on other sites based around one hobby or thing where I have entered into issues coming from a place of knowing and having firsthand experience in things many only think they know. I had a top secret clearance in nuclear missile systems and went on to work with an array of civilian defense contractors with different systems they were working on. I'd enter in with a "this is what I saw firsthand" only to have someone call bullshit, whereby a dozen loyal Gerbils jump in with a lynch mob mentality.

On a gun oriented site someone asked an open thread of what was your favorite car you've ever had, I mentioned a small segment of the true favorites which included a Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB Spyder (convertible), a Jaguar XJS factory homologated race car with a 4-speed manual transmission that was faster than the Ferrari GTB, and a really high personal favorites pair of muscle cars which were a Stage 1 Buick and a Hurst Olds 442 W-30. Someone called the BS meter and two dozen guys jumped in with the bull shit call. I went out front and took a picture of my Audi S8 and an Infinity Q45 to post as proof of some nice vehicles that were sitting out front and I became a showoff.

I entered into the fray where the topic was what 17HMR rifle was best and I offered some observations based on over ten higher end models I had. Someone called BS and said they didn't even think I had any guns or do any shooting because I was a left wing liberal (not), someone else said yeah, let's see proof. I laid out eight or nine rifles in a real pretty row, and posted the picture with a list of what each rifle and scope was, I also posted pictures of targets shot with different rifles showing accuracy. Now I was a showoff once again even though I had responded to someone saying I was a liar.

I have fun sharing some pretty wild things I've done, and yes I have done an abnormally high number of crazy things. But if you think about it the kind of person who does one type of thing is the same type person who will do a bunch of other different crazy things as well.

So yeah, I tend to hold back simply because as experiences are shared people tend to start thinking one thing compounded with others starts to sound unbelievable. To put some things in a believable perspective it takes other chronological events that either poses context or just really stretches belief.

Funny story, someone on that right wingnut oriented gun site asked how many people members had been to bed with. I responded with a "heck, it must be about 450 because when I met my first wife she wanted to know and I made a list that came up to 190 up to then, and I had way more during the 11 years I was married to her." Someone called BS, a dozen Gerbils piped in, and I explained to them that my first wife was a stone fox of a waitress who worked two higher end restaurants that had a vast array of very cute and very wild women who we partied with continually. This was in my wild days, I dealt in certain substances, so loose and easy women were always around, and a good time was had by all. There were a couple of memorable nights where I had played with as many as five or seven different women. My wife would come home from work with another woman or two for the specific purpose of getting them laid, ya gotta love that.

Ourcrazymodern?

I appreciate that kind of holding back, audioguru. I daresay your opening up will scare me.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

james t kirk

One time I got into it over a single small post with a moderator.

The result was that he just kept giving me warning points till I was up to 8 points then he threatened to ban me if I continued to challange him.

Nice.

audioguru

The site I was referring to is the ultimate irony and farce. A right wing bunch of self professed patriots that don't have a clue what a patriot is, and get really offended when presented with the true definition as portrayed in the dictionary. So when a (by their definition) left wing liberal tries to put factual clarity to idiotic misconceptions it is massively offensive to them. The irony is that they consider anything that rebuts their perception of politics is lies and deception if it comes from the "other side".

The ultimate irony is that those who are so rabidly for our constitutional freedoms would find it impossible to deal with another perspective that eloquently makes their look dimwitted at best, moronic in reality.

Yes I was banned, and it was the result of responding to idiotic statements with factual and well referenced rebuttals.

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

Depending on the mood I'm in I see someone else talking about something that reminds me of something pertinent and I have a "speak it out" mentality, let the chips fall where they may.

An example of an innocuous jumping in came about when someone was asking the thread title "what's the most money you've ever seen in one place?" Well I jumped in with "$60 million dollars". Well the thread immediately turned into a bashing on me with me on the defensive being asked to substantiate where I ever saw that much money. Well, that story of where I saw that much money has one hell of a story attached to it, and not one I really wanted to go into with a retarded right wing conservative bunch. But...I was committed so I took deep breaths and plunged into it. As I took that plunge deeper and deeper levels had to be divulged to substantiate the premises of where the story was at. Now anyone who really paid attention to the whole tapestry of the story would have recognized that you just can't make shit like that up.

This story ended up being a shade beyond the movie "Blow", the elements of it get so bizarre it's like a work of fiction but it's not. I would remind my naysayers that the story blow had a real life character behind it and that there are people who do live those crazy lives, and that just because they personally have never known anyone that colorful and crazy doesn't mean it can't happen.

I have lived an episodic life where I have decided a lifestyle wasn't working so I changed it. Life's too short not to have fun, I'm past doing and living crazy lifestyles so I content myself with being willing to talk about the past here and there.

I am writing a book series that is being looked at to be made into a television series, and yes I'm willing to talk about it and have made no real attempt to hide my true name and or identity, I don't care.

The_Jazz

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Except that I know both sides of the story, and that the "single small post" generated about a half dozen complaints. I remember being in Las Vegas, sitting in a parking lot between client appointments seeing all the shit that had gone down.

Thing is, if you keep your nose clean and ask nicely, points can disappear. Or you can just complain about it publicly and absolutely confirm that no staffer is ever going to want to help you.

Thing is, other staffers don't like it when another one assigns points to a long-time member without at least asking for input. And we discuss everything, sometimes too long.

While I'm in "blunt" mode, post or don't post however you want. Just be prepared to defend yourself if you cross the lines that demarkate good behavior - if your parents/guardians/3rd grade teacher did a good job, you know where that is. Sometimes it's best to hold back. Sometimes it's best not to. Sometimes it's best just to relax and have fun.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

urville

If we were talking, like the "pub posts" in a bar discussing? I would not hold back. I've been on tons of forums over time and I've learned.... most forums are full of super rigid assholes who apparently think that their forum will any day be entered into the library of congress, so I've learned to be really careful. That or they they are just looking to rape anyone who isnt part of the accepted regular team. (See that sounds harsh when i reread it)

TFP seems far more open however, I've only been here... not any time at all really... so i find the idea of getting used to having that openness, like you guys do all the time?... daunting. I'm a bastard on facebook to my real life friends though. Hmmm... interesting, need to think about that later.

Funny side note, I joined for the philosophy cause I love it, but the political section because i have a more "radical" belief in politics and I could maybe finally actually discuss it and maybe meet like thinkers for once.

(edit) I also have a terrible habit of not capitalizing and omitting punctuation. I write like I speak so it ends up looking like some sort of weird transcripting. So alot of editing pre-post is rules of english etc.

Borla

I hold back here, mainly because this is a much more polite and civil environment than most message boards I frequent. I enjoy this board, but have ~1k posts in the last 7 years, despite visiting almost daily. The other main board I visit I have ~50k posts in the same time frame.

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Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!