Why aren't there any animal ghosts? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Jazz · 02-04-2011, 09:46 AM

The title is probably misleading and vague, but I'm going to let myself get away with it. I'm also going to let me put this in General Discussion instead of Paranoia, although I'm going to see how it goes.

I'm reading a book that's in part about the Chicago Stockyards in the 1930's, and a question has occurred to me. One of the theories about ghosts (if you believe that they exist, which I don't) is that they are the result of emotional energy from trauma/violence/bad things. If that's the case, why isn't a place like the Stockyards haunted by lots of animal ghosts? For decades, they were moving 10,000,000+ animals through the kill floors there, so wouldn't some animal or another leave behind a ghost?

Why is it that humans only leave ghosts? Why don't the animal dead come back to us? Why aren't there ghosts of rabbits that were hunted down by [insert preditor here]? Whenever you hear about animal ghosts, they always seem to be accompanied by humans? Are we somehow an entirely different creature? Why?

I don't have any ideas, but I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

Ourcrazymodern? · 02-04-2011, 09:57 AM

I think you're right to believe that ghosts don't exist, which simplifies your question into nonexistence. Haven't stories been written about animal ghosts as well? Why they aren't as popular, it's our species hubris that enables us to pretend we're alone in our self-awareness, alone in possessing souls. Animals KNOW, to varying extents, that they exist. I don't think they think about death. Maybe that makes the (transition) easier.

Craven Morehead · 02-04-2011, 12:12 PM

Google "animal ghost", there are plenty of matches. Not sure that proves the existence of them, however.

Zeraph · 02-04-2011, 12:22 PM

Actually, that's very funny/synchronistic that you started this thread. My most recent "out there" experience was with a cat ghost/entity whatever (I don't like labels). Full detail, full light, swishing his tail, no color (I don't see ghosts in color personally) no question what I saw. He was there for about 6-8 seconds then gone. This was shortly after I had put out a strong energy for my other cat to return home. So I think we were both open to it at the time.

As to your question, I'd say its because of two things. Animals are in a sense wiser, they aren't stupid enough to hang around usually. And two, you see what you're open to, and ghosts probably do to. Its a two way street. Most people aren't as open to animal spirits as they are to human. And most animal spirits aren't as open to seeing humans as they might say a mouse or a bird.

Shamans of many older cultures for instance were very open to seeing animal spirits and did quite a bit.

bagatelle · 02-04-2011, 12:27 PM

Maybe the animals do see ghosts of the same species, but unfortunately we can't ask them.

BadNick · 02-04-2011, 12:28 PM

One of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid was "Topper". Even though I always had the hots for Marion, the cute wife ghost, their pet dog, Neil, was also one of the star ghosts on the show. Neil loved martinis, by the way; which I didn't appreciate until later in life.

So based on this experience, and a few others related to my own deceased dog and fish pets, I'm sure there are animal ghosts. The key is to realize that the existence and ability to perceive ghosts is in the mind of the beholder.

uncle phil · 02-04-2011, 12:37 PM

noodle · 02-04-2011, 01:15 PM

I've always thought it was related to the soul and self-actualization thing. Since most animals don't have the same level of self-awareness and are not self-actualized, and since most of the world trivializes animals' souls, they they wouldn't be all ghosty. I don't know. I've had several instances that have made me believe that there are presences, but I aonly assumed they were people and not animals. They were pretty tall. Myabe the one was a Yeti-ghost.

uncle phil · 02-04-2011, 02:22 PM

Cynthetiq · 02-04-2011, 02:51 PM

I've heard tales of animal ghosts in the villages and provinces of the Philippines. I think it's more or less a cultural thing. Aboriginal groups from Australia to American Indians all have some sort of animal spirit belief, are those fair to call ghosts?

Westerners don't believe in animal spirits so why would they see them?

uncle phil · 02-04-2011, 03:56 PM

Willravel · 02-04-2011, 04:36 PM

There's no evidence ghosts of any species exist, so you can rest easy. I'm sure if superstitious animals could talk, they'd have made-up stories about ghosts, too.

uncle phil · 02-04-2011, 04:47 PM

jewels · 02-05-2011, 01:32 AM

Everyone's gently touched on it, but isn't the concept of ghosts based on an early religious principle? I'm not sure which religion, but ghosts relate to demons and hell and all that. Animals can't read or become "believers", so naturally they're just innocent creatures. Unless, of course, an evil man conjures up his ghost.

uncle phil · 02-05-2011, 02:46 AM

Zeraph · 02-05-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

Everyone's gently touched on it, but isn't the concept of ghosts based on an early religious principle? I'm not sure which religion, but ghosts relate to demons and hell and all that. Animals can't read or become "believers", so naturally they're just innocent creatures. Unless, of course, an evil man conjures up his ghost.

Well yes and no, but it goes way back farther than Christianity (you were talking about demons, they're the main demon-mongerers tho there are a few others).

Ghosts, or ghost like beings have been around since way way ancient times. Some considered the Wee Folk (Faeries) to be ghosts. Those are OLD legends. Then there's the shamans I mentioned. They've claimed spirit animals since before history was written.

uncle phil · 02-05-2011, 12:29 PM

Zeraph · 02-05-2011, 01:10 PM

Ok those pictures are officially old and not funny anymore...

uncle phil · 02-05-2011, 01:53 PM

sorry zeraph, but these are my responses to the OP, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with them...

Zeraph · 02-05-2011, 02:05 PM

You know I really like the freedom we have here to post stuff like that that others may disagree with (because of whatever reason). But its not adding anything to the discussion. Which I don't really like.

The_Jazz · 02-05-2011, 02:50 PM

As the OP, I agree with Zeraph, Phil. The horse is dead. Go look for it's ghost.

Actually, I've got a response in the back of my head, but I'm having trouble getting it down on paper. Maybe tomorrow....

uncle phil · 02-05-2011, 03:01 PM

i humbly fade through the wall...

Grancey · 02-05-2011, 04:26 PM

I was kind of enjoying the pictures and the humor.

bagatelle · 02-06-2011, 12:20 AM

I was hoping to find an episode of this tv-show, where the animals might talk about death and souls, but all I could find on YouTube was them pondering about existance of aliens.

I find this show hilarious. There's also an episode of them discussing what's life all about, but they didn't mention dying there either.

Strange Famous · 02-06-2011, 02:40 AM

There are many reports of animal ghosts - ie the headless coachmen legends, ghost dogs, etc etc

Many reports of people who lose pets who claim to still see them after they die.

_

Of course you can believe or disbelieve, but it is simply false to say there are no such reports of these things.

Since some people insist on sources for everything: here is one book. A quick search on Amazon revealed several pages of such:

Pet Ghosts: Animal Encounters from Beyond the Grave: Amazon.co.uk: Joshua P. Warren: Books

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

There's no evidence ghosts of any species exist, so you can rest easy. I'm sure if superstitious animals could talk, they'd have made-up stories about ghosts, too.

If you said there was no proof you might be correct, or at least hold a defensible position.

But to say there is no evidence of ghosts existing is simply ridiculous. There are 100,000's of reports of ghost sightings. Studies in UK and US show something like 10% of people believe they have witnessed a ghost. Do you really propose that the witness statements of thousands upon thousands of people is not evidence?

02-04-2011, 09:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Why aren't there any animal ghosts? The title is probably misleading and vague, but I'm going to let myself get away with it. I'm also going to let me put this in General Discussion instead of Paranoia, although I'm going to see how it goes. I'm reading a book that's in part about the Chicago Stockyards in the 1930's, and a question has occurred to me. One of the theories about ghosts (if you believe that they exist, which I don't) is that they are the result of emotional energy from trauma/violence/bad things. If that's the case, why isn't a place like the Stockyards haunted by lots of animal ghosts? For decades, they were moving 10,000,000+ animals through the kill floors there, so wouldn't some animal or another leave behind a ghost? Why is it that humans only leave ghosts? Why don't the animal dead come back to us? Why aren't there ghosts of rabbits that were hunted down by [insert preditor here]? Whenever you hear about animal ghosts, they always seem to be accompanied by humans? Are we somehow an entirely different creature? Why? I don't have any ideas, but I'm interested to hear what others have to say. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-04-2011, 09:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I think you're right to believe that ghosts don't exist, which simplifies your question into nonexistence. Haven't stories been written about animal ghosts as well? Why they aren't as popular, it's our species hubris that enables us to pretend we're alone in our self-awareness, alone in possessing souls. Animals KNOW, to varying extents, that they exist. I don't think they think about death. Maybe that makes the (transition) easier. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

02-04-2011, 12:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	Maybe the animals do see ghosts of the same species, but unfortunately we can't ask them. __________________ Life is...

02-04-2011, 12:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-04-2011, 02:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-04-2011, 12:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	Google "animal ghost", there are plenty of matches. Not sure that proves the existence of them, however.

02-04-2011, 12:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Actually, that's very funny/synchronistic that you started this thread. My most recent "out there" experience was with a cat ghost/entity whatever (I don't like labels). Full detail, full light, swishing his tail, no color (I don't see ghosts in color personally) no question what I saw. He was there for about 6-8 seconds then gone. This was shortly after I had put out a strong energy for my other cat to return home. So I think we were both open to it at the time. As to your question, I'd say its because of two things. Animals are in a sense wiser, they aren't stupid enough to hang around usually. And two, you see what you're open to, and ghosts probably do to. Its a two way street. Most people aren't as open to animal spirits as they are to human. And most animal spirits aren't as open to seeing humans as they might say a mouse or a bird. Shamans of many older cultures for instance were very open to seeing animal spirits and did quite a bit.

02-04-2011, 12:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	One of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid was "Topper". Even though I always had the hots for Marion, the cute wife ghost, their pet dog, Neil, was also one of the star ghosts on the show. Neil loved martinis, by the way; which I didn't appreciate until later in life. So based on this experience, and a few others related to my own deceased dog and fish pets, I'm sure there are animal ghosts. The key is to realize that the existence and ability to perceive ghosts is in the mind of the beholder.

02-04-2011, 02:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I've heard tales of animal ghosts in the villages and provinces of the Philippines. I think it's more or less a cultural thing. Aboriginal groups from Australia to American Indians all have some sort of animal spirit belief, are those fair to call ghosts? Westerners don't believe in animal spirits so why would they see them? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-04-2011, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-04-2011, 04:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	There's no evidence ghosts of any species exist, so you can rest easy. I'm sure if superstitious animals could talk, they'd have made-up stories about ghosts, too.

02-04-2011, 04:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-05-2011, 01:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	Everyone's gently touched on it, but isn't the concept of ghosts based on an early religious principle? I'm not sure which religion, but ghosts relate to demons and hell and all that. Animals can't read or become "believers", so naturally they're just innocent creatures. Unless, of course, an evil man conjures up his ghost. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

02-05-2011, 02:46 AM	#15 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-05-2011, 12:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	__________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-05-2011, 01:10 PM	#18 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Ok those pictures are officially old and not funny anymore...

02-05-2011, 01:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	sorry zeraph, but these are my responses to the OP, and he doesn't seem to have a problem with them... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-05-2011, 02:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	You know I really like the freedom we have here to post stuff like that that others may disagree with (because of whatever reason). But its not adding anything to the discussion. Which I don't really like.

02-05-2011, 02:50 PM	#21 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	As the OP, I agree with Zeraph, Phil. The horse is dead. Go look for it's ghost. Actually, I've got a response in the back of my head, but I'm having trouble getting it down on paper. Maybe tomorrow.... __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

02-05-2011, 03:01 PM	#22 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	i humbly fade through the wall... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

02-05-2011, 04:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
Grancey Life's short, gotta hurry... Location: land of pit vipers	I was kind of enjoying the pictures and the humor. __________________ Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

02-06-2011, 12:20 AM	#24 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	I was hoping to find an episode of this tv-show, where the animals might talk about death and souls, but all I could find on YouTube was them pondering about existance of aliens. I find this show hilarious. There's also an episode of them discussing what's life all about, but they didn't mention dying there either. __________________ Life is...